Thanks for quoting that Sesc. One of the only parts of HBP I liked, because Dumbledore was pretty awesome there.

 

On topic, the best way for Ron to die would definitely have been to choke on his food. His death would have taught Harry that you should chew your food at least 20 times before swallowing.

 

He was an awesome idiot.

Dumbledore had sacrificed two, almost three, men to the protection of THE PROPHECY in book 5. The Prophecy which underpinned the plot of that entire book.

And then in that passage Sesc quotes Dumbledore turns around and tells Harry, quite plainly, "ignore the prophecy, it means nothing":

Harry put 'too much store' in the prophecy because two wizards died protecting it, and Mr. Weasley almost did. We readers put a lot of store in the prophecy because that was the sole reason we had to plough through 800+ pages of OotP.

But Rowling didn't know what to do with it after it served its purpose to prop up the artificial storyline of book 5. So she made a joke of it in book 6 and then had Harry quote from it near the end of book 7 to convince the readers that it had had relevance all along.

Somehow.

Because he came in from Bulgaria, was observant and noticed their very close friendship? Because he read Skeeter's articles? Because he spent a lot of time watching and listening to Hermione:

Mmmm. Yes. She looked around for the likeliest, juiciest target that would serve as a credible love interest for the Boy Who Lived ... and fixed on Miss Granger.

The fact remains that all of these people - remember Ron, too - all fixated on H/Hr as a possible/probable pairing. Even though you might strive to find reasons to discount each one - Skeeter because her pandering to a public of thousands means she lies about *everything*, right, and Krum ... well, you "didn't remember the context of that", but it surely didn't count, and Ron ... well, forget him, because, uhm, he's *Ron*, don't you know? - they still stand.

And yet Ginny never exhibited jealousy of Hermione at all.

Still, I did proffer a reason for it - because Hermione was her chief advisor on the way to Harry's heart. Otherwise I'd say it's a simple blind spot of Rowling's, ignored for the author's convenience.

 

Or, maybe Dumbledore wanted to protect the Prophecy because it was the only thing holding Voldemort back from all out declaring war on the wizarding world and making priority number 1 to kill Harry at all costs.

The longer Voldemort screwed around trying to get the Prophecy, the more time Dumbledore had to look for Horcruxes, convince the Ministry Voldemort was back, and build up the Order.

So, Dumbledore is still fucking awesome, and I don't ever want to hear this shit about him being an idiot ever again.

 

That quote from GoF only explains why Krum might have been confused. He doesn't know much about the dynamics of Harry's friends circle. It's easier to see from our vantage: Hermione would be more likely to talk to Krum about her close friend who's always getting into trouble than about the other friend that she happens to have a deep-seated crush on.

And to bring things back around, why would Ginny know anything about Krum's views on Harry's friends? Why would Krum's opinions from two years in the past matter to her even if she did? Doesn't she know a lot more about all the parties involved by the end of HBP? (Harry, Ron, Hermione). Now that I've remembered the context, I can't put much weight into Krum's GoF quotes.

She went for the low-hanging fruit, yes - the only girl that Harry speaks to regularly. And thanks to Rita the wizarding world knows that Hermione broke Krum's/Harry's heart and used love potions. This is why we don't care about what Rita and the wizarding world think, and why Ginny doesn't care either. By late sixth year Ginny is friends with or related to the entire trio, and doesn't need tabloid sources.

I saw that reason and wondered why you even kept all that other stuff in there; even as written it was a far better explanation.

It's part of the reason, yes. The full reason is that Ron's jealousy doesn't work the same as Ginny's cattiness. Ron has an inferiority complex, and fears any boy getting too close to Hermione. Ginny doesn't, and so is able to put two and two together: Harry's longtime friend who dispenses advice to Ginny and has a hopeless crush on Ginny's brother is probably not a threat. She's no cherubic Christ child, but that's not a bad thing - she'd have made a horrible Christ child.

 

Albus isn't really "stupid" per say. He's just an idealist who should have done things differently. He was also somewhat naive about Harry's family, thinking they actually loved him. His "uncle"...if you can call him that, actively hated him, because of Petunia hating her own sister.

 

A lot of Dumbledore's thinking and planning was convoluted - he walked in a squiggly line, where walking straight would have been better/more efficient.

 

I don't think he'd have warned Petunia in that letter to keep Harry around if he wasn't worried she wouldn't. Virtually the first scene in PS is McGonagall warning him that they're the 'worst sort of muggle'. There's far too much evidence to sugest that he knew exactly how they'd treat him, or perhaps guessed loosely that at the very least he'd not have a 'spoilt' childhood, but weighed that against a bratty young celebrity with all the wrong complexes and decided to cut his losses.

He wasn't a saint. And he wasn't an idiot.

 

Dumbledore certainly kept a watch on Harry. Wasn't Dumbledore aware that Harry had gone to the Burrow at the start of CoS? IIRC Arthur mentions something about that. If someone could confirm this,it would be great.
How did Hagrid know exactly where Harry was when he first went to meet him? I think the Dursleys had taken him to a different house just to hide from the onslaught of owls and letters at Privet Drive.

One thing that Rowling said that in an interview was because Ron needed more guidance ,he was given the deluminator. How exactly did Dumbledore know that Ron would back out or that the trio would start wearing the locket ? It's also an insulting gesture as he is actively questioning the boy's loyalty.

Because Dumbledore's goals were to defeat Voldemort, Ron backing out and leaving Harry would not serve those goals . And assuming the events that took place after him leaving continued ,did Dumbledore have a guarantee that H/Hr would survive Nagini's attack in Godric's Hollow? Of course, Dumbledore playing games with the trio after his death is just plain ridiculous. Just another of Rowling's plot devices.

Rowling's interviews are inconsistent as well. Prior to DH and HBP , she had said a "major" character would get a reprieve in the forthcoming books. Then again in a later interview she claims it was Arthur. Now for me Arthur is nowhere near a major character. It would be the Trio, Snape,Dumbledore and Voldemort. Also IMO Arthur already got a reprieve in OoTP. I felt it was Ron who got the reprieve. It would have been a great redemption for him if he had sacrificed his life for Harry akin to PS.

 

Yeah, uh, I was talking about what made him leave baby Harry at the Dursleys', and whether or not he predicted mistreatment. He undoubtedly observed from a distance, occasionally.

...because Ron did exactly that before. And he sussed him out pretty well. And he's a leglimens, and can likely identify doubts and insecurities in such a way.

He almost certainly had no knowledge of that. Why assume he did?

 

I do agree that Dumbledore did understand Ron's character and insecurities well. I forgot the Mirror of Erised scene in PS. My bad for that.

What I meant was what if Ron had bailed out at the worst possible moment like Peter did? I am not at all saying Ron is Peter . Ideally Dumbledore would have strived to make sure this wouldn't happen at all,right?

 

As you said, it's a fairly insulting gesture if laid out as such. Someone with Ron's stubbornness might go in the opposite direction if ushered. The Deluminator was instead a catchment - a vaguely confusing mystery if it never needed to be used, or a lifesaver if it did. I think that's more how a Dumbledorian mind would function.

 

I understand what you mean by the ingenuity in the device. Although Dumbledore is very meticulous about these things, would he have taken the chance that he does in canon by relying on Ron's ability to understand the deluminator's other purpose to come exactly at the right time ? Still feels like a bad plot device to me.

 

Well, yes, and he did, because it didn't need to be figured out. It worked automatically.

If you want to fish for wild guesses that somehow paid off via his Will, the snitch would be a far more convincing argument. As it stands though, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove?

 

Did you even *read* HBP? Really?? 'Cause D'dore lays it out there, plain and simple: The prophecy by itself is nothing, and if Tom had chosen to ignore it, it would've remained nothing. Only because he heard (part of) it did he move against Harry, so it was self-fulfilling. Harry was only bound by it because (a)Tom placed faith in it and acted, and (b) there is no (b). Only Tom made the prophecy relevant, and even then it could've been Neville.

As D'dore says, prophecies are rarely clear, and even then only in hindsight. Harry's power *was* love, but not in a love-spell kind of way, and that's why it works. Jesus, how many times do we have to rehash this on what is supposed to be the most intelligent HP site?

Try reading between the lines for once. I know it's a children's to YA series, but Christ, it's more involved than "Love Shield."

Nothing written by Rita Skeeter can ever, EVER be taken literally, or at face value, or even as remotely relevant or accurate. End of story.

It's because Rowling had decided - at least as early as PoA - that Ron/Hermione were a couple, and if any of us had been paying attention, it would've been more than evident by the end of OotP that Harry/Ginny was the most likely *other* pairing.

Yes, it was handled poorly, but that doesn't make it any less canon, no matter *how* much Harmonians (and I somewhat include myself in that 'ship that never sailed) want it to be otherwise.

In other words - Get the fuck over it.

^THIS, to the nth power.

Oh, and ^THIS too.

Gee, I dunno, but Imma go out on a limb and posit: MAGIC.

Go back and re-read DH please. It's addressed perfectly well when Ron has the very same question. Lemme paraphrase here:

Ron: Yeah, so he knew I'd run away.
Harry: He also knew you'd want to come back, Ron.

What in the fuck are you even talking about? Hell, Dumbledore had more on his plate than that kind of minutiae, such as, "Gotta get Severus to kill me, by playing on his loyalties. Oh, and I still need him to tell Harry he's a fucking Horcrux and has to willingly eat another Killing Curse if he has any hope of surviving. Ah, but that's only after tracking down all the *other* Horcruxes."

So yeah, I don't think, "Gosh, will Harry and Hermione survive doing something stupid like visiting Godric's Hollow? And would Ron being there tip the scales in their favor? BAH hahahaha!" was on old Albus's mind.

Dumbledore sure as hell didn't need any Mirror or Erised info to have Ron figured out. And lest we forget, Dumbledore was all about free will and redemption, not striving to make sure someone didn't flip sides. Shit, if he was all about prevention, the Harry Potter books would've pretty fucking short, indeed.

Dumbledore: Ah! Welcome back, Quirinus. Avada Kedavra!

or better yet -

D'dore: Lily, James, how's about we swap Secret Keepers to moi?

or

D'dore: Why hello there, Tom. Applying for the Defense spot, you say? Avada Kedavra!

or

Flamboyantly purple Albus: WTF, kid? Are you seriously trying to order me around? Bitch, please. Avada Kedavra!

 

tl;dr: Stop fretting, faggots. It's canon. If you want to try and do better, go write a story.

 

Somehow, a thread on Ron dying has become a debate on Dumbledore's motives and thoughts. Over the Deluminator. It was, as somebody already mentioned, a failsafe for IF an event happened to occur. And it worked by itself anyway, Ron had it in his pocket when it work. He wasn't trying to unlock it's secrets when that happened. This is pointless now. Dumbledore was an absolute genius and simultaneously mad as a hatter.
Move on from it.

 

I don't really have a problem with the canon Ron, but I think that he was holding Harry and his personal development back- retarding him if you will- simply because Ron was immature and rubbed off on Harry. Throughout the series, Harry followed Ron's lead in many of his life choices.

With Hermione as his remaining friend, I think it would have been hilarious if he then took her lead for the remainder of his school days :awesome

Fanfic idea... Anyone want to do that? I don't have the time or inspiration to hunt down that bunny.

 

It has been done to death by Harmonians...

 

Badly done, you mean.