Yeah I just really can't get how Santi can make up anything as awesome as Harry participating in the TWT. The TWT is a great plot device for crazy things to happen, like fighting dragons or merpeople. Investigating who put Nathan in the tournament and tutoring him and Krum makes him seem like a side character, which would be boring to read about. Seriously all of this build up and nothing came ;p

 

Why people seems to forget that in the very first chapter of this history, the author explicitly told us that it would revolve around a character that wasn't an adventure kind of protagonist, but, in his own words, an egghead.


To me, this history was never about the cannon challenges, as they are being beaten by Nathan, but about Harry's fall of grace and how it happened.


In other words, it isn't about how better he would do on the cannon challenges, they weren't made for him to best, but about what would be necessary to make him the most infamous wizard of all time.


If you read the history with this on your mind, you ill see that the author has yet to lose focus of the final goal.


Any action that was put on scene had a motive, a motive that the twt would not meet, as it wouldn't allow for a grow in the relationships of the characters, the same as him not participating.


Just imagine the jealousy that Harry will fell, more so, when becomes clear, to him at least, that Nathan will get all the glory, without any of the necessary pain of preparation and the desire to be there.


Or when the person that Nathan would miss the most end being's his best male friend and not him, him who didn't help his friend to help his brother, him who believed since the start that Nathan didn't put his name on the goblet.


Or, when at the end of the year, if all happen as in the otl, what he will fell when Nathan simply gives away, without any thought whatsoever, the prize, spurning all that Harry wanted.




What him participating would get us?
Would His and Nathan's relationship suffer the same as if he didn't participate or less, as his brother didn't want to be part of the tourney?
Would he get more alienated from his family, or less, as they would try to help him to win, or a least survive?
Would He fall more into the dark arts, or less, as he would have greater exposure to the public by the media and to his family ?


I not only believe that him not participating will give us the better History, but that him waiting for the last minute to put his name was in character, and as so, am waiting for the rest of this tale.

 

The story summary is about how Harry became an infamous wizard, and the category on ff.net is adventure. You don't become infamous by sitting around on your ass practicing spells all day. The Santi has also hinted several times that this year was the year he was most looking forward to writing and that it would have action in it.

I think most people assumed this would be the year Harry would have his first adventure because of the Santi's comments. It is also the year a lot of people wanted to see Harry prove to his former classmates that he was a genius and simply better than his brother at magic.

This is where the anger and frustration comes from especially when you consider the plot problems in the last chapter which was probably the worst effort I've seen the Santi produce and the promise of more of the same (character interactions and fancy spell work) in the author's note. So, yes people aren't happy.

 

Love how Santi fanboys who joined this site just to read updates bitch about people pointing out things that seemed flawed to them.

 

Yes, but mostly likely more.

More given that unlike his brother Harry had willing enter against their will and is hell bent on competing. That would cause some serious strife with the family even more so than him just trying to enter his name.

More given that he would practice and delve deeper into the magic so that he could protect himself and win the tournament. He might not plan on using dark magic to beat the tasks as that might not look so good to the media, but he sure as shit will learn the magic so that he has a safety net against death and or failure.

I disagree on both accounts. Getting into the tournament with time to spare with nobody watching him enter his name trumps failing in front of everybody. He may be arrogant, but he isn't stupid, Dumbledore is one of the most powerful wizard of the age and Harry shouldn't and wouldn't be confident enough in his plan to bypass the age line made by Dumbledore. Along with that we get alot more interaction with the family and teachers by Harry competing and any history that could be gained by him not competing is almost guaranteed by him competing.

 

Yes, a lot of people have made it abundantly clear that they aren't happy with Harry being excluded from the TWT. They've also made it abundantly clear that they have no faith in The Santi being able to write something excellent of his own devising, as opposed to yet another canon rehash.

This whole story so far has been as far from canon as possible, while still clearly remaining a Harry Potter fanfic. So far I'd say that he has done an incredibly good job of writing an excellent story. All I, and a few others, are trying to say here, is have some patience, see where The Santi goes with the story before you decry it so angrily.

I completely understand the reasoning behind your points and your anger, and in fact I agree with them at face value. It definitely seems as if The Santi is deliberately avoiding what could be an incredibly entertaining section of the story. (We'll ignore whether people like or dislike how he avoided it)

The problem I have with the posts in this thread lately is that everyone here is rushing to conclusions. The Santi clearly states this in the opening chapter of the story:

So far, he's followed absolutely none of canon, and yet has managed to make it an incredibly fascinating character driven story, with brief interludes of badassery. These include Harry and Calypso's Duel, them being attacked when Harry was practicing wards and so on.

I also forget the source, but I remember it being mentioned somewhere that fourth year is when things really start to get going. That's this year, and the TWT isn't the only medium in order to make things exciting. So far The Santi has managed to avoid almost every single key 'action' moment that was present in canon, such as how he slept through the disturbance at the Quidditch World Cup, and I don't expect him to change that now.

He has clearly shown that he has absolutely no interest in doing a canon rehash, and instead prefer's to write his own original ideas. So far I feel as if I haven't been led astray. As such, I am more than willing to trust The Santi's ability to write and create a compelling and exciting fourth year that doesn't involve the protagonist being in the TWT.

The basic point that I am trying to make is, stop rushing to conclusions based on the limited amount of information we actually have so far. The TWT isn't the only way Harry can prove himself. Have some faith in the author.

 

I never stated I didn't think Santi couldn't still do something awesome and original, it's just hard to believe that he can make something as epic as the TWT and how it happens believable. The TwT is a great plot device for crazy shit to happen, him ignoring it will probably make it difficult to make something just as great.

 

Eh, I'm disappoint as well, but I see this as sort of a major turn of events for Harry if he's to become "infamous". Seriously, as if living in his brother's shadow wasn't enough, now he has to deal with the fact that he failed (failure is an important lesson, you know) in from of the top schools of Europe, to enter the tournament despite doing almost everything in his power, whereas his brother is now a champion, and probably doesn't (in Harry's mind) deserves this honour, blah blah. All the more reason for Harry to resent him.

 

I understand what you are saying, but this is the TWT. It is a chance for wizards to do things on a grand scale in front of an audience. With that being said, I'm not upset over Harry not getting in so much as I am at the fact that I doubt there will be anything that happens that can realistically top the events of the TWT.

For the record, I don't doubt the Santi's ability to write something that will be interesting. I doubt his ability to write something that is epic enough to properly put Harry's skills on display and not disappoint given the massive buildup to this. Yes, like you've pointed out, he has written some good action scenes, but they are few and far between without any extended buildup to a overarching adventure.

It is difficult to have faith in an author with no track record of being able to deliver on the grand adventure. This is especially true given the author's note, and what is probably the poorest chapter I've ever seen the Santi produce (in this story). If the past chapter would have gone the same route and still maintained the previous quality of some of the other chapters, I would likely be right there with you. For that matter, if the author's note would have at least promised an epic adventure for Harry and not more character interactions and high level magic, I would probably agree with you as well.

Edit: Has anyone else noticed that some of the same people who normally complain about rabid fanboyism after normal posts are the ones complaining at people criticizing the story this time?

 

Yeah, rehashes suck, it's good that Santi found something better to happen at Hogwarts than Voldequirrell in year 1, Riddle's Diary in year 2 or prisoner of Azkaban appearing at Hogwarts in year 3...

A lot of people made it abundantly clear that while they aren't happy with Santi's choice pertaining to the TWT (myself included), what they are really disappointed with is the way he made it happen and with protagonist's reaction to his failure.

Not only he fails in Hollywoodesque manner, just by fraction of a second, but also he doesn't care at all about that. The same Harry who, just a few chapters ago, blackmailed Karkaroff to allow him to come to Hogwarts. The same Harry who, just a few chapters ago, used Cruciatus on people who didn't think he should go with Durmstrang's representation. And now all his reaction is no reaction at all? That has nothing to do with having faith in Santi - last chapter simply doesn't work with universe he created.

tl;dr: Ellisande fails to grasp the point. What is really disappointing about last chapter isn't Harry's failure, but the way he failed and his reaction to it.

I know that the amount of cocksucking wouldn't change even if Santi decided to write in a Manipulative!Dumbledore stopping Harry (who was the real Boy-Who-Lived and a veela vampire named Rakesh, by the way) using some obscure blocks on his magical core. It would be nice though.

 

How does Harry using Cruciatus on people attacking him relate to how he'd react to failing?

 

Yeah, because Hogwart's is what we're following and care about right? It's pretty clear that Nathan's life at Hogwart's remains consistent with canon, however Harry's life at both Durmstrang and Hogwart's remains completely different.

Did you read the part of my post that said I wasn't talking about the manner in which he failed? Let me quote it for you.

"I completely understand the reasoning behind your points and your anger, and in fact I agree with them at face value. It definitely seems as if The Santi is deliberately avoiding what could be an incredibly entertaining section of the story. (We'll ignore whether people like or dislike how he avoided it)"

Frankly, I didn't bring this up because it's more a matter of personal preference. The Hollywoodesque manner which you refer to almost always has the good guys/protagonists SUCCEEDING at the last second, I took Harry's way of failing in this manner as a sort of ironic parody, which is actually part of the reason I enjoyed it as much as I did. I can understand other's disliking the admittedly contrived plot device however.

I think the main point for me here is that in the end, how Harry failed to get into the TWT doesn't matter. Either you like it or you don't. It's not going to effect how you feel about the story later on as you'll forget about it because it most likely won't come up again.

The matter of entry into the TWT is exactly the opposite. That matters in the long term, and most people are extremely vocal about hating it. My post was merely pointing out the reasons I had a different opinion to them.

As to what you say about Harry's reaction to his failure? If that's all the mention of it we get, I will completely agree with you. That'd be complete bullshit. However, I almost certainly expect we'll see Harry raging about it later on when in a more private setting, probably with/at Calypso. Especially when Kira starts taunting him about it.

tl;dr: Krzaq fails at reading my post.

Actually, I'd say that the amount of cocksucking here has dramatically decreased after the last chapter. There's a lot more posts discussing how much they hated it, compared to the posts defending it.

 

This is what annoys me. The people defending this chapter seem to be focusing on Harry not getting into the TWT as if that was the issue. I feel as if most of the posters are complaining about the quality of the chapter not the direction. Though the quality of the chapter does make me concerned that the Santi won't be able to pull off the direction he is trying to take, it is not the main issue that people have with this chapter. It is the substandard nature of this chapter that should be the main focus.

Essentially, I want more of what you said about the way he failed. I disagree with it, but at least you are making a point about something the majority of people are actually complaining about.

 

I know half the people here would suck some cock for a new update, that's for sure.

I for one am willing to give Santi a chance to make this work, but I would be lying if I said I enjoyed the last chapter. I think there may be a problem when I'm going into the next chapter with nothing to care about but Harry training his brother and Rita Skeeter's next big scoop. (also happy new year!)

 

I can't believe I spent new year's eve refreshing the HP&BWL webpage...

Oh and I just scanned the last few comments and all I can say is someone please find something new to discuss in this thread other than why everyone hates or doesn't hate Harry failing to get into the tournament...*sigh*..Like what has Calypso's father been up to the last year as he left his daughter by her lonesome and is he going to join the DE's as soon as Riddle pops out again for instance...

 

The Goblet has been described as possessing a sort of sentience and is known to be tied to and aware of the age line. It's entirely plausible that it extinguished its own flames as a defense mechanism upon realizing that Harry had, in fact, beaten the ward (or just recognizing that something was amiss with the ward). It was already in the act of going out, so it just hurried things a bit, which accounts for the remarkable timing.

I'm intrigued by the following:

Dumbledore just gave Harry the green light to approach him for help with magic. Flitwick feels guilty as hell over not paying attention to Harry and is actively looking for ways to make amends. McGonagall knows he's a Transfiguration prodigy. Snape treats him with respect, if not grudging affection. For someone with Harry's level of commitment and talent, this is essentially everything he asked for in his first year before leaving for Durmstrang: the possibility of personalized tuition from four who are at the very top of the magical food chain.

 

It's an interesting theory. I'll give you that, but there is one major flaw in it. Harry was physically and mentally the same age. That was what was so brilliant about him surpassing the age line. Plus, if the goblet worked that way, why wouldn't it have shut down the moment Barty tried to enter Nathan's name or cast a spell on it?

If there is a legitimate argument to be made for the horrible timing, I would say it would be that Barty did more than create a 4th school. He may have been under orders to make sure Harry wasn't allowed to enter the tournament and the goblet upon realizing that he was going to put his name in shut itself down. I sincerely doubt Barty's master has forgotten about young Harry.

On another note, if Harry isn't in this tournament, I would like him to complete the animagus training before the year is out. I originally suspected that would be Harry's way passed the age line. Sirius in POA stated that the form confused dementors and he would have physically been an animal. Either that or human to animal transfiguration.

@Elelith What you are suggesting we talk about would be complete speculation with no basis in the story. The reason people are discussing the chapter is because at least it is relevant.

 

One does not necessarily exclude the other. Barty crossed the age line and Confounded the Goblet (among other spells he may have placed on it), whereas Harry crossed the age line physically eligible and, while mentally of age, in a state of confusion. It's not unreasonable to propose that such an event could have triggered a response from the Goblet.

 

Not only can Harry get private lessons on Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions, but he may also get lessons on dueling from Flitwick -- and if he plays his cards right, lessons in the Dark Arts from Snape. If he could somehow convince Snape, well...

 

Lol, the discussion since the last update reminded me of the update to the Denarian series involving Meciel, Harry, and his mom.

While I am admittedly disappointed at Harry failing to enter his name into the cup, I have no problem with the direction the story is going if it is what was originally intended.

Just my 2 cents but personally, I'd be afraid that a deviation from the plot - which would admittedly be awesome if only to see Harry dominate the tasks - would possibly decrease the quality of the deeper/more complex aspects of the story that may come about as a result of Harry's failure.

Of course, I imagine that if we asked very nicely, the Santi wouldn't mind writing a few omakes later on that would satisfy the cries for epicness and badassery of what could have been. Either way, I'll continue to jizz.