See the gaping hole in that theory Mordecai is that its explicitly stated that there are multiple places on the planet where they can't do or even affect anything at all and that by itself automatically kills most of your theories. Also its been shown on multiple occasions that a strong enough being is completely capable of hiding things from the Gods in their own realms and they can be beaten back in their own realms as well which means no only do they not have Intellectus the way your thinking of it but they don't have complete dominion either. Poseidon was dying from the strain of trying to hold back Oceanus until Percy managed to intervene and Lukes ship was completely hidden from him.

Also no they don't control the Mist, they can simply manipulate it like everyone else.

They can also be tricked laughably easily by more or less anyone.

 

It all makes sense now. Gather the following: a mangled old quarter; some glue; a few of those virtual porn DVDs with your favorite "actresses"; a fleshlight; and an iPad.

Load the porn onto the iPad. Glue the quarter to your forehead, and the fleshlight to your spanking hand. Watch the porn as you like, and have your girlfriend randomly Skype you on the iPad to nag you and make you feel guilty until you throw out your porn and fleshlight in favor of proposing.

Voila! You're a Denarian. Anyone who's married will understand...

That could be funny as hell if Lash allowed Harry to, say, walk into a closed door she made appear to be open, or step on a rake, or just trip over a low wall. Tons of possibilities there for slapstick humor.

 

I could definitely see Lash doing something like that after Harry spent too much time being a smartass to her.

 

Krogan pretty much summed it up. Besides, I would think that the powers a god has over their realm is rather different to their overall power. Limitations and all that. I also don't understand how Greek mythology can contradict canon, there are so many variations of it you could adapt it to most scenario's.

But whatever, agree to disagree and all that rot. Lash and masturbation is so much more of an amusing topic.

 

A statement which potentially sums up DLP...

 

Here's a little idea I had that didn't necessarily focus on Harry, though he would be the protagonist.

Spoiler

Lea is the Big Bad. She's been playing everyone from behind the scenes in order to kill off Mab and become the new Queen Who Is. To do this she has set up her own godson as Winter Knight, planning to absorb some of the power of the Winter Knight (in a seemingly innocent fashion, of course), so that when she kills Mab the power of her position will flow into the nearest well of Winter power. Namely, her.

Not much more to it than that, since it's basically just a plot bunny, but it's the kind of scheme I could see Lea attempting to pull off.

 

It would require a lot of handwaving to get around how no one (including Mab) would have noticed that and stopped her. It would take even more to handwave how she could actually pull it off (we have WoJ that Lea could not take someone on Mab's level, even in ideal circumstances, where she got to pick the time and the place and also draw on all of her resources, even if she had Elder Gruff and all of his resources backing her up).

However, if by some miracle she actually did it...so what? Winter is held in check by Summer; it doesn't really matter if it's Lea or Mab on the throne, unless you have a debt with one of them.

Seriously, would it change anything?

 

Well, the Queen Who Is would change. Is that not big enough for you?

Still, it was just an idle plot thread that hasn't really resolved itself into anything. I just think it's amusing to contemplate the idea that the entire series has revolved around Lea's plan to become Queen Who Is.

 

Didn't Lea's imprisonment in ice come about because of that 'gift' Bianca gave her back in Grave Peril, or am I remembering wrong? Some kind of ailment Mab was trying to remove.

Say Mab never got around to it in her bid to snatch up Dresden as Winter Knight, or due to Summer shenanigans interfering or whatever your plot coupon happens to be, and that ailment turns her nature enough to seek Mab's position.

Come the end of Changes and the six or so months that Ghost Story is supposed to be happening, and while Mab keeps Dresden on life support, Lea goes around amassing whatever resources she has.

By the time Dresden finally gets his ass in gear and makes his come-back tour, Lea has prepared everything she needs, including that cache of Dresdens stuff(Uranium Dust, for example?), and off we go.

Downsides to this are that Molly would probably be dead without Lea's instructions, and Dresden's body itself might get thrashed into oblivion.

There's also Demonreach that would probably bitchslap Lea if she tried anything on his soil, but that could be worked around by setting the encounter after Dresden's up and running again and on his way.

 

It came because she was getting crazy and because she was getting too powerful. As a result, Mab took her debt with Harry and later her knife.

That would be really ridiculous, though. the Fae are all about balance; Mab took stuff from Lea to maintain that balance.

Besides which, it would be ridiculous even without that. Between GP and GS, over a decade passed (and possibly much longer in Faerie). Mab would stomp Lea's plans the moment she got wind of them, which, as we saw, was as soon as started doing stuff with her new power. There is absolutely no possible (or even vaguely reasonable) reason why Mab would not have a chance to deal with Lea in that timeframe. Hell, even if she didn't, she controls the worst of the worst in Faerie, which (by WoJ) is 'millions and millions and millions' of faeries. If she couldn't do it herself, she could make any of them (or a dozen or a hundred or a thousand of them) do it for her.

Harry doesn't work as a distraction, because Mab spent, uh, and hour total with him over the course of a decade? That leaves her with a decade+ minus one hour.

Summer doesn't work either, because there were a number of times in the book where Summer was distracted that Mab could easily redirect her forces--and no amount of interference would keep her from doing anything to combat such a threat for more then a decade, besides.

Which are pathetic and unimportant compared to the millions and millions and millions of Fae at Mab's beck and call.

Not gonna be important, because Lea would have to fight Harry (who answers to Mab), a few million fae, everyone who owes Mab favors, and Mab besides to win, and would have been dead for years anyway.

Molly would probably be as dead as Lea, yeah.

Mab could get stay there until she recovered or move to some place safe, like Arctis Tor--which she would, because she's basically a goddess in Winter and has a bazillion people that would report this to her because they're her subjects. Hell, more then that, because anyone who might want to get a favor from Mab would instantly take this information to her.

I mean, who would you side with? The crazy lady who's trying to take on Winter and who will soon be dead (taking you with her if you're dumb enough to side with her) or the Queen of Winter who'll actually be around to help you later?

 

The dagger was given to Lea by Cowl during Bianca's Party. The athame was probably tainted - just like the Hexenwolf belts in Fool Moon (I'm pretty sure it's his doing). So if Lea were to kill Mab and take her place, the Black Council would, in theory, have gained control over the Winter Court.

@Ryuugi Shi: You're right saying that Lea herself can't handle Mab, but if she got the support of Maeve... I can't remember in which book but it's clearly stated that the Lady becomes the Queen when she overthrows her mother. So basically all Lea would need to do is convince Maeve that her mother is going crazy, help her in the coup, then back stab her (and have someone to become the new Winter Lady to retain the balance).

 

I don't recall that ever being said. As far as we know, it works exactly as it's implied to: Mad (the Queen Who Is) will become the Mother (the Queen Who Was) and Meave (the Queen Who Is To Come) will take her place.

After all, that's exactly how Jim stated the Queens become the Mothers.

And if she did, so what? Meave is even weaker then Lea and Mab is the still the queen. Lea's side gets a bit more power, but it's so completely irrelevant in the face of Mab's overwhelming military and political might that it still means nothing.

And again, who do you think, say, the White Council would side with in this? Mab, because she'd owe them a favor afterwards, which would be awesome, and all it would take is smacking down a crazy bitch or two.

See also, the Black Court (a favor or two from the queen could help them get back on their feet), the Denarians (hey, Nick's practical enough to see the benefit of a favor from Mab and all it would take is sending her a message or two), Donar (can see the future, could use help, and is practical), etc. Hell, Ferrovax would probably do it for a favor.

The thing with Mab is that she's a Faerie. If you save her, she owes you, and she literally has to pay you back. And while Lea is a distant maybe who'd be destined to get pwned, Mab would be a sure thing.

The Supernatural World would fight over the chance to help her in her time of need.

 

None of the major powers would help either Mab or Lea at all in this conflict mainly because to them it is an internal matter. The Dragons view the fae as beneath them much the way they view mortals, the vampires would be all kinds of fucked trying to traverse the Nevernever near Articus Tor, the fallen nickleheads would probably not care because it doesn't involve screwing with humanity and so on. So no one would get involved but the people Lea would seek to help her and probably a little Summer influence just for balance.

 

What? No. Even if they did see this attempted take over as a purely internal matter (and not, you know, something that if going to violently affect everyone in the supernatural world), why would that keep them from interfering? We have yet to see any example in the books in which outside sources did not interfere with internal disputes.

...What? I guess that's possible, but it's completely unsupported by anything. Point of fact, in GP, Ferrovax chatted casually with Lea, a fairy.

Nothing anywhere has ever said they look down on the Fae; God, they've only shown up once.

Why? All they have to do is send a message that they're here to help (along with, say, the mutilated bodies of a few of Mab's enemies) and Mab can just safely direct them towards her enemies.

It's only hard to travel in Winter if Mab says it is. See also, the White Council and SK.

Holy crap, no. You may think that, say, Nicodemus is a complete idiot who thinks of nothing that isn't strictly defined as 'screwing Humanity' but he's not. He can think logically, which is why he could see the advantages of being able to drawn upon aid from Winter, having a powerful ally, or simply making a quick getaway in a time of need.

All of which he'd gain by doing Mab a single small favor by sending her a short message and/or some small degree of aid.

This is why Nicodemus is dangerous. Cause he's competent.

That would be true if anything you said had actually been accurate.

I have no idea where you even got most of this stuff.

 

Have to agree that the Faerie Courts aren't likely to drag every random bystander into the fray for their own internal political issues. That's just not how they work.

Besides, if Lea were going to try overthrowing Mab, she would try for a quick coup, not a protracted civil war that would give everyone and their uncle time to stick their nose into Winter's business. In a straight-up fight, Mab would take Lea apart in seconds; Lea's only realistic chance is a quick and dirty sucker-punch that removes Mab before she can launch any sort of response. If Mab's still alive five minutes after Lea begins her coup, Lea has already lost.

Also, I doubt any outsiders could get favors from Mab for helping with Lea; Mab could just say (quite legitimately) that she had the situation under control the entire time, and the outsider's aid was unnecessary. Further, said outsider has given offense to the Winter Court with their unnecessary and unwanted intrusion into the internal affairs of the Winter Court. However, if the outsiders do Mab a favor she might overlook their intrusion upon the sovereignty of the Winter Court...

Plus, I think actually getting a personal favor from the Queen of Winter takes more than smacking a random enemy minion over the head, then telling Mab. "I herped u, u owe me fav0r nao."

 

I'm with Chengar on this. The way I imagined a theoretical Lea-coup would be an iron dagger in Mab's back, or a curse on the scale of the one used at Chitzen Itza. Mab dies just as easily to iron as any other Sidhe.

Also, a bit of food for thought. Mab trapped Lea in an icicle for her own good, presumably because the athame had corrupted her. I also seem to recall that a vague reason given for it was that Lea had 'forgotten her place', or something along the lines. Could be that this coup idea (or just killing off Mab to upset the balance; they tried the same with Aurora) was what the Black Council had in mind from the start: Corrupt Lea, get her close to Mab. Attack Arctis Tor and wound Mab with iron so that she's weak and distracted enough for Lea to stab her in the back, therefore eliminating one of the most powerful adversaries the Black Council has and achieving whatever goal they have that includes it.

 

Who says?

No, really, says who? Cause this is nothing at all like the books have shown.

Calling on debts is what the Fae do, especially when they need something. Same for making deals.

Note how every time we've seen the Fae have an internal political issue, they've drawn in outsiders.

Which would fail spectacularly, cause Mab's just better at this type of thing then Lea, has contacts everywhere in Winter that would alert her instantly of this, has way more power, skill, and pull then Lea, and would be immediately backed up by everyone who would want to preserve the balance.

Which is pretty much everyone.

That depends.

If be some chance the ridiculous, handwavium-power series of events occurred that meant Lea actually had a chance, and they came to her rescue, then Mab would owe them a debt, because they saved her.

That's just the way it works. Even if Mab was unhappy, if she was saved, she owes a debt.

If Mab did know about Lea's plans, which she would, Lea would basically spontaneously combust and no one would even have a chance to learn about it, much less come to Mab's rescue.

That depends one if Lea has a chance.

She doesn't, which is why you're right.

Even if she did, though, she wouldn't, because in that case people would rescue Mab. And it wouldn't be smacking a random enemy; it would be saving Mab's life and preserving her rule, which, fuck yes, is definitely worth a favor.

But Lea would be dead a million years before she got a chance to do that. Cause yeah, I'm sure no one's ever tried to back-stab Mab.

And if Mab was ever in danger, she can control time in the Nevernever. She'd be a hundred miles away in a minute and have all her guards with her in a few more.

Further, Iron is hardly as much of a sure thing as you're making it out to be. It hurts the Fae, bad, but it's not like they can't heal from it. It's not even hard for them to heal from it. Lea and the Fetch both recovered from it completely in seconds. It won't protect you from their attacks, either, especially not Lea.

Any injury Iron did to Mab would close in a second. And since Lea owes Mab debts of her own, she'd find herself stabbing herself with it repeatedly, ala SK Harry.

Plus, she can sense Iron, IIRC. So using it on her would be a horrible idea. Lea dies, if she's lucky, but probably visits Slade's tree instead.

 

Man, what a hardass. You're about as bad as Mordecai and Percy Jackson.

Mab's been steadily declining mentally to the point that Harry himself notices on the times he has any dealing with her. If a mortal takes note, even one with ties to the Fae, surely the others in power are aware as well.

In her right state than yeah, Mab wipes Lea across the floor like a dirty mop, but said Queen hasn't exactly been operating on all her marbles and at full strength given the assaults on Winter in recent time(Arctis Tor torched by Summer Flame after Thorned Namshiels assault, and then later Dresden's pseudosuicide forcing her to remain stationary and focused singularly on his body).

A sucker-punch like Aekial or Chengar suggest isn't that far out of the realm of possibility.

 

Stop. Word of Jim time.

WoJ has long since confirmed that Mab is not crazy:

Word of Jim on the way things are in Faerie:

WoJ on Arctis Tor.

In addition, Mab being weak at the moment doesn't matter. She'll be on her feet shortly and she can just go somewhere safe like Arctis Tor until then.

More to the point, as said above, if Mab was ever in danger, the entire military might of Winter would be there seconds later.

 

I repeat: Hardass, Mordecai+Percy Jackson.

If anyone is ever going to write anything, they're going to have to bend the damn settings and tweak the established order a few notches to make it possible.

Yes, thank you, we know that Lea has 0% chance of success. Moving past that, would it make an interesting or at least moderately amusing read, as first proposed; that Lea was operating toward this goal the entire time? Yeah, it probably would be for a little while.

You're also completely discounting potential Black Council interference. If they were behind Lea's problem in the first place, why would they not do something to utterly fuck Mab over at the critical moment?