So how do you think Kishimoto should have capitalized on his villain potential?

 

A clear, sensible motive would've helped a lot. I personally didn't mind it nearly so much when he was first assembling his team to go after Itachi. Being out to kill the man who'd murdered his entire family made sense. Even the deal he cut with Orochimaru didn't seem too bad once it became clear that Sasuke had always been planning to backstab Orochimaru as soon as he'd gotten everything he wanted out of the deal.

Thing is, ever since Itachi died Sasuke's motive has basically decayed to the point of doing things purely for the evulz. A villain whose sole motivation is "because I'm evil!" doesn't usually work very well, especially when the entire drive of the narrative indicates that he will be forgiven despite gleefully jumping over the moral event horizon.

Combining inevitable redemption with pure-evil psycho doesn't work. I'd either keep him sympathetic and ambiguous, or turn him psycho-evil and have everyone accept that he's past saving (and then play up the tragedy of Naruto having to put down his former best friend like a rabid dog).

 

Like Dumbledore and Grindelwald then?

I'm sure it was mentioned either in this, or some other show, that people who are avengers after achieving their goal, always look for another source for their anger to compensate afterwards, that's probably what they'll play up a bit more aswell.

 

At the start of part 2, Sasuke was a goal oriented, powerful shinobi. He wanted to accomplish it on his own, and thus was at odds with Naruto's crew. But he wasn't anything any one of us would really consider evil. He was on his own side. I very much liked this Sasuke, in spite of all the hax!techniques and random methods of survival he used to get out of fights he shouldn't have won. He had a bit of depth to him as a character, as someone who flat out refused to slaughter people in cold blood (when Oro had him fight some few hundred men) because they weren't the man he wanted to kill, but also as someone who wasn't afraid to sacrifice people for his greater goal if it became necessary.

The way he shifted from "killing Itachi" to "killing the people responsible for the Uchiha massacre" was something that I actually liked. It made sense, even though he knew that Itachi had basically sacrificed himself for the good of Konoha. His goal made sense, given who he was - and as much as he loved his brother, it's not that easy to ignore the fact that these people pretty much ruined his life. The Killer Bee fight showed he was still human, to the point that he cared about his comrades well being.

This is where I would have told Kishimoto to cut off in regards to Sasuke. He was still a character with a bit of depth, and could qualify as a villain simply by virtue of the fact that Naruto would never sacrifice Konoha citizens, no matter what. He'd be a rational, if revenge minded, shinobi who was on the opposite side of "good" because even the good guys do bad things, and his life was pretty much ruined by them, good reasoning or no.

It would add a lot of depth to the world, and show that sometimes decisions made with the best of intentions can come back to bite you in the ass. It would also show that even bad guys have good reasons for being bad, and a lot of the time it's because the so-called good guys wronged them first. The dynamic between Sasuke and Naruto would be amazing, as you would have a Naruto trying to teach Sasuke to forgive people who ruined his life, while seeing the darker side of his beloved village at the same time. And would inevitably lead to their huge fight, as Sasuke (in my mind at least) would never back down, and Naruto would never sacrifice others.

But instead we have insane!angry!Sasuke. Do not want.

 

Naruto's always seen the darker side of Konoha; he lived with it for twelve years.

 

I think there is a difference between alienating someone for something - as it's happened to Naruto and Sakumo - and mass genocide.

 

The underlying principle's the same: "Konoha isn't a place of saints and Naruto knows it".

There's several canonical incidents where Naruto learns more about Konoha's dirty dealing and is unfazed by it; Danzo working with Hanzo, the Uchiha coup d'etat and subsequent massacre.

And you're oversimplifying Naruto's childhood; it was more than alienation, he was despised by everyone around him, routinely ignored and/or insulted and was never acknowledged positively for anything for twelve years, without ever knowing the reason why. He loathed Konoha for years and retained some unconscious resentment even after Iruka acknowledged.

 

Also, Sakumo was an adult. His shunning was compounded by his guilt, but the actions of the Konoha citizens by themselves wouldn't have been that bad. Conversely, Naruto literally grew up without any positive reinforcement whatsoever (except from a few people). The situation is kind of like the Dursleys thing in some ways - while fanon has overblown both with physical abuse (the mobs chasing Naruto down the street, etc.) often enough people don't realise that what actually happened was quite bad in itself, given the child in question was quite young and still developing emotionally.

 

During the Sasuke vs Itachi fight Itachi pretty much says that Madara got a completely new technique when he got the EMS.

 

Yeah, and it's probably his Space/Time jutsu that makes him impossible to hit, since every Uchiha ever apparently must have access to Susano'o and Amaterasu. You know, because the Uchiha need more hax.

 

I think Amaterasu has only been used by Sasuke and Itachi so far. I'm not surprised at Susanoo. It seems like the common technique between MS users to me. It varies a lot between users but if they have both their eyes to use the technique then that's what they get.

Madara hasn't used that time/space jutsu yet. Only Tobi has and we've never even seen him using the MS.

 

Just read a preview for the next chapter...

Kishi is a fucking troll.

http://mangastream.com/read/jpreview/83942308/4

 

I agree.

Spoiler

Although I think I understand how the Rinnegan is created now. I had a feeling since last chapter Itachi would face Sasuke again. Although I was hoping Itachi would take out a few zombies first.

Although that means Orochimaru/Danzo must have been even friendlier/allied than first hinted.

 

Chapter was decent. Useless flashback was useless, but the fight itself wasn't bad. Watching Madara wtf!pwn all the Kages does have me worried. Even Naruto's going to need an extra powerup to beat this guy.

Also, Itachi vs Sasuke version 2. Epic mindfuck.

 

You know, right now I have this small hope that Kishi will surprise us and Sasuke will become a good guy without Naruto's speech, but by talking with his brother. That would be a very nice twist in the story, instead of seemingly inevitable Naruto vs. Sasuke battle.

 

Madara is the best thing about the manga right now. Hopefully he has a flashback to his fight against Hashirama at the Valley of the End. I really want to see what went down there.

 

I reckon the flashback will happen when Madara is aobut to be defeated, like it happened with Jiraiya and Danzo.

I'm also hoping Sasuke will suprise us, but the more I read, the more I think Sasuke will meet with Naruto, give him his eyes, and because Naruto seems to have a part of the other bijuu from there names (my opinion) he will gain the Rinengan and a pseudo-tentails power and be a mini-Rikuduo. As I honestly don't see the Kage beating Madara atm.

Although, the more the FIrst Hokage is hyped up, the more I'm wondering how the hell an old geezer like Sarutobi managed to defeat him, the Nidaime, and Orochimaru...

 

Because Oro's technique was imperfect and he needed to control Edos much more than Kabuto is doing right now. The way I see it it was more of Orox3 with previous Hokages' abilities vs. the Third battle than anything else.

 

Personally I'm hoping for a Senju Gaiden.

 

Or rather if ninja aren't on the level of the Hashirama anymore then was Hiruzen ever stronger than him in the first place.