Thoughts on Tiamat!Ult?

 

Never had a reason to buy Tiamat. No one in Dom huddles together close enough to constantly and reliably proc the splash.

It can be good in SR if your entire team is geared around it. Say Galio + Orianna ulting. If you did that with Tiamat...well, there'd be no enemy team left.

 

Bought Wukong today. Absolutely loving him so far. Gonna take a bit more time learning him in a couple bot games before pvping.

Any suggestions for playing him?

 

A good combo is to go into brush, decoy, come outta brush stealthed use your e and q and a couple of AAs. You want to get Trinity Force as your second or third item(Brutalizer/Wriggles are good options for first/second item as well). When building Trinity start with Phage if you need the health, start with Sheen if you want more burst damage. Use the S key to stop while running which mimics your decoys movements, makes for fun jukes.

On another note, just played free week Nautilus. Those ganks, man. Those ganks.

 

Okay, so. Just had two games in a row where I was one of two in the first game and one of three in the second who actually knew what they were doing.

Naturally, we lost both. In the first game I fed Fizz as Viktor, and in the second we had an AFK around 20 mins.

Now that you know the score, here's the awesome thing about that second game. We held the other team off as a 4 v 5 for 30 minutes. Granted, we lost more ground than we gained, but they were down to their innermost lane turrets which were all half-dead or worse when we lost.

And their entire team was scared of me as Viktor. Everytime I got ganked, it was at least a 4 v 1. If I started a fight against anyone in a 1 v 1, they either ran away immediately or took off as soon as I started winning. Naturally, I either killed them or they got away, because Viktor is so goddamn slow. I honestly think that he's one of the slowest characters in the game. Anyway.

Their Ashe didn't get involved in any teamfights until her/his build was nearly finished (I'm talking building the sixth item, here) and their entire team decided to roll AD with very little armor and no magic resist whatsoever.

I had ~735 AP after 45 minutes, so basically I was blowing them all up when I initiated (God knows why I was the one doing it when we had a perfectly good Udyr and tank Jarvan). Also, I was told by their Shaco that Viktor was OP.

Shaco said that Viktor was OP.

EDIT:

Apparently there are a lot of complaints about Fiora being OP on the forums, so there's already talk of nerfing her. On the day she came out, as well. In my opinion, they're probably going to overnerf her, and make her underpowered.

As far as actually seeing her in action, I think they were trying to fill a niche role with a character that you had to build towards with anyone else, but is freeby with Fiora. Naturally, Riot overpowered her, because they apparently either overpower or underpower every single champion they come out with.

In my opinion on the subject of her being overpowered, I really don't think she is. She fills a niche role that we hadn't seen much of until now, so most, if not everybody, was unprepared to face a champion like her. Once people figure out how to counter her, talk of her being overpowered will die down. Of course, that'll probably happen after the patch because everybody bitches about how their favorite champ died to Fiora and so she's overpowered.

Everyone seriously needs to get over themselves and their favorite champions. Sometimes, you're going to have to fill a role you don't particularly like playing. Sometimes, you're just going to up against a champion that counters you, or someone who's just better than you at the game. Get over it. It happens.

EDIT2: Does anybody care to tell me whether or not Fizz is a counter to Viktor?

 

In other words, no one is used to melee hard carries any more and, even if you used Yi or Trynd, you'd probably smash people just as hard.

 

More or less. The difference is, everybody knows what Yi and Tryndamere do, so it's easier to devise a strategy on how to kill them. Apparently not everyone watches Champion Spotlight, or so I would assume considering all the questions I'm fielding about a champion I don't even play.

"WTF FIORA JUST BURST ME TO HELL AND BACK!" - She does that. Most of her attacks are geared around attack speed, so she's going to have a lot of burst, especially because she won't have to build much AS since it's pre-built into her.

"WHY IS FIORA SO FED!" - Because she just came out so nobody really knows how to counter her yet.

"OMG FIORA IS OP!" - Not really. You're just not defending against her properly. Don't go in against her if you're not 100% sure you'll win. That's common sense against any hard AD carries, to be honest.

Seriously, come on, guys. Does every single person I have to play with in normal queues have to suck ass, lack common sense, or both?

 

Most definitely. There's a reason 75% is under the equivalent of 1400 Elo, be they actually ranked or not.

 

Well, having played several games with her today, I've been running the build:
1. Vamp Scepter
2. Boots -> Berserker's Greaves
3. Avarice Blade
4. Black Cleaver
5. Tiamat
6. Bloodthirster
7. Infinity Edge
8. Sell Avarice Blade -> Madred's Bloodrazor
9. (Replace Berserker's Greaves with Phantom Dancer)

I've only got to Step 9 once, and Step 8 twice, and the games generally ended after around Step 5 or 6.

The only thing I'm not sure of yet, is if Madred's will proc the full 4% per hit of her Ult against a single target, for a total of 20%, or if it will do 4% + 1%(25% of first-hit damage) for each extra hit. If nothing else, the AD, AS, Armor and unique passive are handy anyway, and will proc for full when the Ult hits multiple different targets.

Otherwise, I have found the Tiamat to actually be quite handy. Be it dashing in and quick-attacking with your E, or on the random occasions where you do get to hit a couple of clustered champions, such as you might get lucky at Baron/Dragon, or a random trap of either yours or the enemy's. That, and you wipe minion waves like crazy, but that's a given by max build for an AD anyway.

There was at least one notable time in a recent game where I ran into the southern mid river bush and saw their team about to enter the bush presumably on the way back from Dragon, I just Ulted in, and so did my team's Lux, and only two of them barely survived to be promptly chased down and killed. That splash damage in close quarters on her ult is absolutely brutal. I would almost be tempted to drop the Black Cleaver for a second Tiamat if occurrences like the above were not so unfortunately rare.

 

Against champions she seems fine, great damage but fairly squishy and really weak against CC. She's a hard counter to buildings though, Burst of Speed lets her shred them. Master Yi backdooring turrets all damn day is incredibly frustrating, but at least he has to farm an item or two and pop his ult to do it. Fiora has to get to level 9.

 

Several problems with your build, Fen.

Zerk greaves suck on her. Again, you don't need attack speed with that E.

All the damage you're getting from Tiamat? You'll rarely ever get it. You're focusing on outliers instead of commons. Tiamat gives no benefit to your E and the splash range is so pathetically small, it literally requires the enemy to be huddling. Now, this might happen a lot at low lvls, but higher Elo and lvl games tend to have people scattered enough for Tiamat to not work at all.

That Madred's. The pitiful damage you get off of it won't be anywhere near equal to Ghost Blade's damage boost or even just Last Whisper. Again, Carries do LESS damage with BRazor than if they built straight AD, unless the enemy somehow has a 3k HP champion with over 200 AR and under 100 Mres. This has been proven time and again.

Phantom dancer not needed. If you're that fed, it means it's time to shore up your defenses. Atma's, Bveils, Fmallet, Tforce. Tforce is especially good since it fills the same niche as PD but gives far better effects that Fiora can easily abuse.

 

I only get the Berserker's Greaves early because they are cheap, and prior to building the other items, and leveling E to max, the attack speed really is quite helpful.

The Tiamat... I'll contest as a matter of flavor. Situations where even just two champions are next to each other are more common than you seem to imply. That, and it's not like I'm just running in heedlessly. I certainly wait for some sort of stun/slow/snare or otherwise before I would consider jumping into a team engagement.

As for the Madred's, as said, it's largely a matter of circumstance. I don't see it being useful every game, and in that particular match the enemy team had several characters with bonus health items and negligible bonus resists(well, they also didn't get full builds). That, and I really am curious as to whether her Ult can proc 20% of max health as magic damage from Madred's Bloodrazor against a single target, or if it only does 8%. I could see it going either way, although I do suppose that they upped the AD from Madred's at least.

The Phantom Dancer I will definitely give you though. At that point in the game the conclusion was already inevitable and I had enough money, so I just swapped my Boots for it. The non-E attack speed was mostly unimportant, albeit a bit nice, and the Crit chance was handy. A second Bloodthirster would have been more useful most likely.

I didn't really bother with a defensive item that game(I was going to grab a Frozen Mallet at one point, but we were rolling the other team so hard, there wasn't really any point), although I do usually get some form of defense tailored to the enemy team.

All in all, the build I listed was simply the build that I roughly aimed for, even if I only actually did it once. The first seven steps I could see myself following, though with some slight deviation, on most games.

 

Fiora = Awesome in Dom, for me at least.

100% Win rate there with her, unless I have an AFK.

Played 11 games with her in Dom now, so no it's not luck.

 

Her attack speed + Mobility is OP.

Sure, she's squishy, but she closes and does Damage like Yi, but she has a better early game. And she doesn't have to build AS AND AD to do Tons of Damage like he does.

 

Fuck yeah. In top .1% of Dom players in the World now.

/e-peen

 

In other news that's actually related to the rest of us, you guys should seriously try out Riven. I did because I went random, and she's actually loads of fun. Also, tower diving and getting a double kill at level 4 was awesome.

 

On a related amusing note, on the next round(or perhaps the one after that even), the team other than my own had a Karthus who was sticking around the back, and ended up getting five or six kills without dying, despite the fact that we were beating his team in general. At that point we just decide to troll him.

He ended up going at least 12/0 before dying because we refused to kill him, even if we killed the rest of his team mates and could easily get him too. Somehow with only 36 AP, he had the most kills on their team up to that point. I think he said he had almost 8k gold before we finally killed him off and let him buy items. I think I may have been either Ziggs again or Lux that game, though, so...:awesome

 

I'm on a veigar kick right now.
Switched out my flat AP for mana regen runes and I farm like a boss and chunk these bitches like no other.

But I found a neat trick for when you are facing a jungle maokai. I waited in my river brush by his wraiths until 1:30, then walked around so that I was by the wall next to his wraiths, and dropped a dark matter just as it hit 1:40.
Since pretty much every single person does the 3 saps to kill wraiths trick, it's pretty much a guaranteed steal. For me it was like 70g+half a level of exp, as well as denying maokai that gold. And 70g is a shit ton for junglers that early.

It meant that I came to lane with dark matter instead of baleful strike, but I hit level 2 by the first 3/4 minion kills instead of 6, so it was pretty awesome.

Maokai took it personally and tried to gank me so hard but in the end I was just too strong for them to kill without an assassin.

My Veigar build is boots/3pots-->kage's+sorcs-->dfg+dorans-->rylais-->voidstaff-->deathcap.

Cut the rylais out if you aren't having issues with survivability. Voidstaff is better than DC imo, because it lets you chunk tanks as easily as squishies. Instead of having to have 100% perfect positioning to get a stun off on the carries/aps, you can just kill the tank when he tries to initiate. From then on it should be pretty one sided even without your ult.

 

I generally do a similar build except it's boots/3pots --> single (or doubles if i somehow get a successful jungle gank) doran/kage's simply because that sorc boots is w/e early compared to the 15ap, mp5 and 100 health. I usually don't get rylai's either though. Personally, I feel like it's more important to make sure that you instagib someone and death cap after dfg is best for that imo.