Basically, Carl fucked up twice in this episode.

First was bringing the walker back to camp (And losing the gun on top of it all, can't wait until Darrel realizes it's missing), which obviously got Dale killed. Good shit, kid, that blood's on your hands.

And the second fuck-up for Carl was walking into the barn and saying something. I really wouldn't have been so irritated by it if he'd snuck into the loft to watch or something, but just walking in as brazen as can be, then saying "Do it"? Yeah, he fucked up there, too. If I was reading things right, Rick was getting ready to kill Randall when Carl opened his mouth.

While still on the subject of Carl being a dumbshit, his treating Carol like that was, well, stupid. Here's one of the people in the group who's actually willing to do the work (Laundry, cooking, etc.) and look after Carl when Lori's off doing whatever the hell she does, and Carl basically spits in her face about Sophia's death.

This goes right along with Scrib's "maybes" and "possibilities" that he was using to tear apart my earlier post, but maybe there is a Heaven, or at least an afterlife of some kind. Carol wants Sophia to be in a better place, that's Jim fucking Dandy, but you should keep your observations on the subject to yourself.

Just because Carl thinks that since the world's gone to shit that means God doesn't exist, doesn't mean that's what everybody else thinks.

 

Psychopaths are highly rational because they have no conscience which limits their options. Shane is no psychopath. I think he's more driven by fear for his life, loosing his position in the group to Rick, loosing a family with Lori/Carl. He's desperate and highly frustrated, no doubt. I also think the whole Otis situation deeply affected him.

 

Gods, this episode made me raged so hard. I had just about enough for the grimdark angsty stuff.

Also, FFS Samkar: it's losing, not loosing.

 

I'm done watching this show. Hopefully the graphic novels will be better.

 

I just bought the first 'book' of the series online yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to find it on the porch this morning. That being said, the graphic novels of the series are better, in my opinion, though the show is no slouch. The show is doing things differently than the graphic novels did, granted, but it's loosely following the same story.

I'm only up to the point in the graphic novels where Rick and the others have left the farm and are basically trying to figure out what to do.

I left it without spoilers because, in my opinion, it's a foregone conclusion that the group is going to leave the farm anyway.

Also, what's with some characters from the graphic novel not being in the show (Tyreese, his daughter, and her boyfriend come to mind) and some characters from the show not being in the graphic novel (Darrel and his brother come to mind here)?

 

I must say I prefer the comics, I find myself less hoping the zombies kill every one then I do in the TV show.

 

Tyreese, his daughter, and her boyfriend come later in the series. They haven't left the farm yet. The hope of the farm being a permanent safe haven for the group still exists in the show.

 

I'm all caught up in the show, dude. Also, them coming later on sort of intrigues me because that might be at the point where Rick stops trusting outsiders. Then again, Rick's character progresses a lot faster in the comics than he does in the show.

Spoiler

Shane dying so early in the comics might have been what made Rick start becoming such a hardass. I wonder if maybe that's why they left Shane alive in the show, to portray that part of Rick's character in the comics?

And another thing, why does Carl actually look seven in the comics but in the show he looks 10-12?

 

It's easier to get good child actors around 10-12 of age - or at least that's what I think.

 

Spoiler

Not to mention the fact that writers seem to constantly want to pussy out of making Rick's character darker. In my opinion, it wasn't really Shane's death that turned Rick into such a hardass, so much as him always being a hardass. We don't really get a good look of his personality before the zombie apocalypse, just glimpses. He seemed like a guy that knew what needed to be done to ensure the safety of his group, even if he didn't agree with it because if he didn't, then no one else in the group would. I don't know, that just what I think.

Maybe he was the only kid that could actually act at the audition and looked somewhat similar to Carl in the comics. Whatever the case, the show really shitted on the idea of the idea of Carl being a badass, as the comics portrayed him to be.

 

I've never understood this argument. It's quite simple really, the beings that can realise that the paradigm has shifted are the beings that will survive. Yes, emotionally you will think that it's wrong but you don't have to listen to your emotions anymore than you do any other biological urge. You don't stuff your face with everything on the menu or fuck every woman that throws a smile in your direction. The people who realise that logical thinking is the solution to the problem are more likely to survive. Emotional comfort does not come before the safety of the group, which is why I think Rick is a selfish prick. Sacrifices aren't just made in the physical realm, sometimes leaders must give up their own peace of mind and certainty for the people in their charge.

Shane's moral code may just be a way to counter his guilt over Otis, but it doesn't make him any less right. And as for him being 'obsessed' with Lori, keep in mind that they were in a relationship for a while through an extremely traumatic period.

Does he have issues? Undoubtedly. Has he been right about every major issue this season? Undoubtedly. I don't need to like him to agree with him.

 

Pussy out of Rick's character in the show? Did you not see that sumbitch shoot two humans to protect the camp from a threat that may or may not have happened?

I don't have anything to say to the arguments for going full retard that some of you guys are espousing. Still human bro so acting halfway decent still has to be an option.

 

And did you not see that they practically threatened him when he politely refused? The fatass basically said that he wants some pussy and he'd shot Rick with his rifle. He was an immediate and obvious threat. It's easy to strike down the obvious threat, but not so much when it's some kid that could ratting out your location and have you all killed, and the women and children raped, or be completely innocent. He should have killed Randell, but he didn't have the balls to go through with out.

Decency is just a construct of a civilized society that guarantees protection for those that follow it's laws. Civilization is gone and decency with it. There are people that will kill the men and rape the women in Rick's camp till they wish they were dead. If you risk being "decent", you risk being killed. Simple as that. We're talking from the perspective of a zombie apocalypse, not reality.

 

Shane finally pushed too far, and Rick had an awkward moment with Carl.

Also, it seems that you die, you turn into a walker, no matter what. And next week, Zombie Blitzkrieg.

How the fuck do you do spoilertag black bars?

 

Spoiler

Not the way I pictured Shane going out frankly, but it felt right albeit rather fucked up. Not so sure how I feel about even the plain ol' dead coming back as Walkers, though having never read the comics I'm not sure whether that was the case there or not.

I don't personally agree with it, there has to be some kind of explanation but eh... I'll let it slip.

So, Carl now has the guilt of killing Dale on his mind coupled with his dad murdering the guy who basically played his father for however long Rick was in a coma, that's... going to make for an interesting angle on paper come s3, to me at least.

But yeah, that final 5 minutes was rather poorly foreshadowed and glaringly obvious. Kind of annoyed they didn't show Glenn and Darryl again though I'm presuming the events with Shane and Rick took place not long after they dealt with Walker Randall.

So, 45 minutes to wrap up an escape from the farm or a valiant last stand, think we'll see any more of the cast get killed off in terms of the main characters or are Hershall's kids up for Walker food? Can't wait for next weeks finale either way, hopefully it wraps up this somewhat dragged out series decently enough now that the tension's being set loose and the build up's finally over.

 

Spoiler

The idea in the comics was that there was some kind of airborne virus that brings people back as Walkers right after they die. As for Carl, in my opinion, this was something that should have been dealt with a long time ago. It's a kid being raised in a apocalyptic world, so how's his psyche going to be affected?

If any one the cast is likely to die, it's most likely the lesser known Hershell kids, Andrea, or T-dog.

 

Spoiler

THat probably works that problem out then, a little odd as surely the living would catch it and die, but, fair enough.

As for Carl, I meant with regards to seeing his father with Shane's corpse. Can only really imply one thing and at his age, particularly with the role Shane played in his life before and after Rick was comatosed, it'll have some kind of effect on him.

 

Spoiler

The issue with an airborne virus like that is just this. The human body creates white blood cells to fight infections and disease and all that. When the body dies, things like that stop working. Maybe it's just something that we are naturally immune to in a living state because the white cells in our body are enough to fight it off.

 

Haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I've been thinking... at the end of episode 11, where Dale goes out to the field and finds that gutted cow...

I was wondering if anyone else thought 'zombie cow! o shit!' or if it had just recently been attacked by the walker and just hadn't died yet. Like maybe that's what the CDC guy told Rick--the virus was spreading to other animals.

Or I guess, more likely, he probably just told him that every dead person comes back as a zombie. Which is what happens in the comics, but I'm pretty sure there were a few cases in earlier episodes where that didn't happen, and so I ruled it out. Argh, continuity!

 

Why would Rick not tell others something like that? Even if he did not want everyone else to panic he would have told that to at least one other person so that if he dies someone else is there to tell the group about it if a situation requires it.

Why would he turn his back on Shane after killing him if he knew Shane would come back as a zombie?

I always thought that Jenner told Rick that Lori was pregnant. But the facial expression of Rick in that scene doesn't seem too fitting so I am not so sure about it.