Jeez people, Mishie is a guy.

And yes, while I can express thoughts without having any thumbs, I want to wait for the new people as I have nothing new to say yet, and don't feel like repeating all the other players. I'm off to bed now as I have stuff to do for school later.

Aurion Nessie and Aekiel we're waiting on posts. (has Aek been confirmed yet?)

 

So yeah, I'm just going to assume that people can't read, since if you had actually bothered to read my entire idea, you would have noticed that instead of saying "Hey guys, lets tell the witches and junior witches everybody that's part of the court." It actuallt said, "Hey guys, lets allow town to know which of a nights kills was done by court, along with some of the reasoning behind, that way they're able to know that the other night kill was most likely done by the coven, and as such done on somebody that's not in it." It's a small difference, but it's those small details that matter.

Also, Eidolonic, I'm not sure how to break this to you, but apart from the King, there are 7 people on the court that can be scum, and even in the INCREDIBLY unlikely scenario where the queen reveals that 0 scum have joined the court, I just want to remind you of the fact that junior witches don't count as scum. As such, I'm really hoping that the court are taking care to not give away too much information, as they should be assuming that both scum teams have infiltrated the court. Because really now, you of all people should know how easy it is for scum teams to get into court.

 

Mishie, I'm surprised you think that the set of people the coven wants to kill and the set of people court wants to kill overlaps significantly... because it really doesn't.

Also with queen, she finds witches. A junior witch is a witch. So, Queen finds junior witches. Also, you should have read the changelog I posted, because Queen doesn't find out exact numbers anymore, only odd/even.

 

I did have a nice post typed out to respond to you Kai, but DLP ate it, I blame Jon.

From what I remember of my rant:
Thanks for correcting me about how Queen is able to find junior witches, doesn't really make sense but I'm not complaining.

We should still assume that scum have infiltrated the court and are able to influence who gets court killed, because although it should be obvious who court wanted dead and coven wanted dead, it's not, simply due to court either being influenced by scum, making a bad call, or coven pulling mind games.

Overall, if you feel so strongly about town getting less info, that's fine with me. I do hope though, that at least one town member on the court is collating as much infomation from the court QT as possible, ready to dump it in the thread at a moment notice.

And before anybody mentions that there's nothing stopping the coven from just killing whoever reveals as being on the court, well, that just means that court has chosen who got killed that night, and unless they're idiots the person who volunteered didn't have a vital role. Which of course leads into the double think of having a strong role do it so the witches kill him but fuck that train of thought.

 

Down to two actually Sesc. Seven members, one replacement (+ Pauper if he gets hit) means the NK's could be directed a minimum of six nights. With a minimum 5 (or 6, unsure on priority in this case) NK's for the Court.

All of this builds on a load of assumptions though. Fen was NOT Court. The Witches will do exactly what we expect them to (ie target Court representative). The Court will hit Witches with their NK. THERE ARE NO WITCHES ON THE COURT. That last one is important.

If Fen was actually Court we have one less night + NK to work with. Witches will not act in our perfect +town prescribed manner. Even if they did those kills give no reads for the town to use. Now..

Question Mishie: Do you think there are more then one Witch on the Court? The odds do favor it after all. Court is decided by a majority vote and you want a member to reveal themselves as a speaker. Let's think about this for a second, there are two scenarios that arise here. 1) Witch speaker is nominated. Can feed Town false info that is only disprovable by another Court member revealing themselves. 1b) Town speaker that isn't killed. We assume Case 1. 2) The Town speakers are killed off one by one. There are 3 maybe 4 Court members left and this exchange pops up:

Court Member 1: Wanna kill Confirmed Townie A?
Court Member 2: Lol yes.
Court Member 3: Wait what?

Congrats. You've now given the Witches at least one extra NK to work with. I couldn't come up with a derpier or more -town plan if I tried.

Vote Player: mishie

 

Scum killing outside the Court doesn't make sense unless no witch was selected/Queen/Duke. With this being unlikely, I think it's highly likely, instead, that Fenraellis was a Court member. I can't see any role-read from his posts, which would also exclude the only other alternative of scum thinking he was an extremely dangerous power role (not even Bishop since its powerless for a long while).

Sesc/Kalas, might I remind you that Court has night-kills? In what world does scum not want to get rid/take control of that immediately? Seriously, create a scenario in which it's plausible.

CheddarTrek, post #184:

Right back at you. Is this the reason why your posts have no content? So they can't be twisted? Is this why you didn't use any "action", as in you didn't vote at all? You read townish with empty posts and I'm really wary of that.

 

What I was doing, and you somehow missed entirely, was pointing out how horrible mishie's plan would be for town for exactly these reasons.

At best its hand-feeding Court members to the Witches. At worst its handing the Witches even more power (lying!Speaker or majority vote holders).

 

So I want to return to this. You don't want somebody to get a read on you? So what are you talking about?
You don't want anyone getting a town read on you or you don't want somebody to get a role read on you?
If it is a general read, then I don't see why you wouldn't want to get read being town.
But if it is a role read, it still doesn't mean that you want to fly under the radar with some role, because you could still be scum.

This, going with you saying that scum would have had better kill to make, makes me vote for you.
Vote:StrikerLee1

 

Well before I go to sleep, I just want to thank Kaidash for actually bothering to read my post, and respond to my question, instead of just throwing accusations based on the fact that I dared to propose an idea.

Speaking of which, Kalas, I've tried to read what you've posted about 3 times now, and it's still not making any sense. For starters, you both seem to think that the court would need to come forward every day, like Kaidash said, sometimes it will be obvious who has killed who. But once we get 3-4 night kills a night, and there is a lot of confusion in the thread as to what's going on, having more information can only help. Secondly in regards to the witches targeting the court representative. Why? What reason do they have to target him/her? Just because somebody is part of the court, doesn't make the automatically town, nor does it mean that they've suddenly become a bigger target due to the fact that they've magically gained new information.

Thirdly, like I said before, if you had actually bothered to read what anybody was posting, you may have noticed the part where I said that somebody doesn't need to come forward each day, only when we need it. Also, Kalas, could you please point out for me where I made ANY of those assumptions, because for some reason, I just can't find it anywhere, and I would just LOVE to know where exactly I said that I was assuming that there are no witches on the court, instead of well... the exact opposite.

As for how the court representative getting night kill would give us no reads... Really? Do you really think that? How about the obvious "Hey I'm not in the Coven" read, along with others that I'm not really awake enough to type out.

On to the wonderful scenarios that you've given us: yes, I agree that that scenario 1 is very likely, I'm sure that the scum in this game think that it's a great idea to be so obvious that they're scum, and I really do hope that they do this.

Next on the list, I just love how we're now assuming that court is all suicidal, because really, you would think that they would have learnt after well, the second time it happened, but hey Kalas, if that's what you think will happen, then good for you .

I would go into your fail post more, but it's getting late so I'm just going to finish up with this:
The reason why I posted the question in the first place was due to the simple fact that the original plan was to help generate more discussion, which can only get more reads for us, my mistake was that I had forgotten that some people are unable to read properly and just want to lynch somebody. On the bright side, I'm fairly sure that Kalas is either a) scum due to him trying to start such a shoddy bandwagon, or b) an idiot. Both seem rather likely right now.

 

Its a mafia game mishie. When you propose a bad idea getting flak for it isn't something that should surprise you.

Then you should really try reading it a fourth, it wasn't hard to follow. Information always helps everyone but a town controlled NK helps town a lot more. The crux of your arguement seems, to me, to be that info at a critical time outweighs the potential loss of that NK. You're of the opinion that Important Info > NK, while I think the exact opposite. Especially as there are several, far easier/less risky ways of releasing said information that will NOT result in the death of a Court member (which if you believe won't happen is.. naive at best).

You're right in this though. I had thought you were suggesting one Court member be known to everyone at all times (working off of your original post) and the majority of the scenarios I proposed were based on my thinking that that was what you had proposed. Sorry about that. Court members revealing is still A Bad Idea though.

1) He's identified as Town via NK. Court down a member.
2) Coven ignores him completely, hits other target. Court then has to deliberate if representative IS Witch or not (assuming they nominate the members they are most suspicious of), possibly wasting Court NK.

By Scenario 1 are you referring to the Witch controlled Court? Cause that's more of a late game, Town's lost, kind of scenario not an early/mid game thing when being so blatant could turn the game around.

Two times is to many mishie. Lets try another scenario here, the Worst Case that I can see realistically happening. Three scum, one of them the Duke. Two Court members dead, on that night scum would have the majority vote, Witches NK the other. Two scum controlled NK's with no one the wiser. I don't expect to see that in a million years but then again I didn't expect someone to suggest that there could be reasons for Court members reveal themselves either.

If all you wanted to do was generate more discussion then congrats you've succeeded. As a plan standing on its own two legs though. Its bad. Not as pants-on-head retarded as I thought on my initial read but it still shows a large misunderstanding of the game mechanics and still possesses the same fundamental flaws. I stand by my vote.

 

If the coven have someone on the court (a reasonable assumption I suppose), then the representative wouldn't be a bigger target, true. However, if the king managed to keep the court scum-free, then you're handing them targets.

(Out of curiosity, for the Queen, would zero be considered an even number of scum?)

Really? You did? Let me quote your original post then:

I see no mention of not coming forward every day. In fact, it sure sounds like you're saying that someone should come forward each day and say who the Court target was. Something does not compute. I also checked your other post today, and it makes no mention of not coming forward every day either. This sounds like a backpedal.

That's not really the ideal way to get a solid town read on someone...

Agree with you on this. Lying is pointless - the only way they could get away with it is if they already have the majority, and by that point, it really doesn't matter all that much since both NKs are in the hands of the Coven.

It was taking your plan to its logical conclusion, as you presented it. Perhaps a bit extreme though.

---------- Post automerged at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

He's referring to your Coven!representative lying about the Court kill. Frankly, it would be a really stupid move. Sacrificing a member of your scumteam for momentary confusion that will be quickly cleared up? Not worth it, imo.

 

It was poorly phrased but I wanted him to post something meaningful, which he still hasn't.

In other news, isn't that exactly what coleam is doing here?

Are you really giving suggestions on who the scum should kill?

 

No, just making an observation. Nothing I said wouldn't have been noticed by halfway competent scum.

Moreover, I was simply putting names to the "drivers" that Sirion mentioned before me. Personally, I find it much easier to refer to players by their names rather than euphemisms - it tends to clear up any confusion.

 

We're pretty focused on the court discussion right now, and that's fine. Always interesting when people have lots of opinions. Whether or not the court should reveal any members is something that is probably going to stay with us for a while.

If Fen was on the court, eventually revealing who they killed, why, and who is on the court along with suspicions is something that's going to have to happen eventually so that we, as town, can use that information to decide if there are scum left among them.

If Fen wasn't on the court, and the court is still potentially secret, then I don't think giving up a potentially town!court member for the coven to NK is almost ever going to be worth it. There are extreme situations, maybe, but reducing the number of town on the court increases the power of any scum on the court relatively, which is a Bad Thing. This has already been said, so I'm echoing a bit, but hopefully my phrasing might be a little clearer.


HOWEVER, we do have other pressing concerns on our hands and they're not really getting talked about much: Who are we going to lynch today? Who's scummy, who's towny? The people want to know.

I'm going to kick things off with a return to the past, Klackerz. Suspicion on you, including my own, was related to a couple of derpy posts more than anything. We don't have much more to go on today, but let's give you a chance to change that.

Klackerz:What are your two strongest town reads, and why? You can be vague if you think you absolutely need to, but keep in mind that might count against you in some peoples minds.

I'm not gonna park a vote on you or anything yet with 3 days left to go, but you haven't really eased my mind any so you're still up there on my suspicion list.

 

Hi.

I don't really have anything revolutionary to say here. Ideally it shouldn't be all that difficult to figure out who the Court is killing- it seems reasonable to guess they'd kill players acting scummy?

(Now that I've said that and jinxed myself, watch me not be able to figure it out.)

Overall, not sure why you'd be suggesting this as a Town player. Pretty awful idea, unless the Court has their hand forced by doing something retarded like killing the Priest Night One (HI EID!)...plus, it's really something the Court should decide on their own whether or not to do as opposed to being pressured into it by the other players.

Eid actually seems legit to me. Getting a Town vibe off how how he's posting, particularly the prodding to get people to post and post with content. He could just be fucking with everyone of course, but I'd put my read on him as fairly strong.

The one time I've seen him play scum (which you were around for), his posts tended to rely heavily on trying to get people to overthink their conclusions.

Not...sure about KaiDASH. And since this is my first game here, I don't know Fenraelis from a brick so I can't help you there.

 

Can someone please clarify who has replaced who. I know Lochness replaced Republic21, but who have Aurion and Aekiel replaced?

 

~signups thread

 

I'm not going to live this down for a long while, am I? But, yeah. Enough about previous games. The only thing that tells you about my meta is that people shouldn't blindly follow me like sheep, just because I like to talk, and no one else is.

Anyways, yeah, Klackerz needs to come talk. Not liking how he is trying to fade into the background after almost getting lynched day one.