Also, the tasks themselves have been made easier because of the death toll.

Incidently, Harry isn't actually in this tournament, so why is this argument still going on?

 

It occurs to me that Nathan is still in the tournament as is Krum which means that we will get to see Harry's ideas for beating the tournament's tasks. As he will prepare his brother and most likely Krum for the tournament.

My mistake.

Honestly would that work? I mean if you could actually kill any living creature magical or mundane with a killing curse than there really isn't any creature that could straight out challenge any wizard capable of casting it. I would question this because wizard apparently have real trouble subduing Manticores because their spell resistant hide. I would assume that it is the same for dragons.

No we didn't. They all didn't work. Krum's completely failed. Cedric's sort of worked before the dragon blasted him with fire burning up his face. Harry's plan was asinine and was lucky he had plot armor. Fleur's is the only one that actually worked when she put the dragon to sleep. Of course all the dragon had to do was snort to fuck up her flawless plan. I don't call being set on fire a successful plan.

Of course in the magical world where magic can heal serious injury in a matter of minutes it's hard to gauge what a serious injury is. I mean it's pretty much it's serious if your dead or if your cursed with something not easily dispelled otherwise its not really all that serious. I mean a third degree burn on your face can be healed in minutes with a paste. I would still consider that a serious injury even if they can heal it in a matter of minutes.

Add to that as soon as they get the egg or smash the egg in Krum's case the dragon handler's swoop in and control the dragon. So Cedric probably got his ass saved by the handlers when he got the egg and Krum didn't have to deal with the dragon he enraged because he lost. Presumably Krum would have had to deal with the enraged dragon if it hadn't smashed it's eggs.

When dealing with extremely dangerous magical creatures you can expect everyone to succeed if you wish, but that doesn't mean the task will allow for that. I'm sure the judges and the crowd believe that they are in no danger from the tasks, but that doesn't mean they are safe. For example:

"Well, the Heads of the participating schools are always on the panel, because all three of them were injured during the Tournament of 1792, when a cockatrice the champions were supposed to be catching went on the rampage. It's all in Hogwarts: A History."

Depending on the legends you use the Cockatrice can be snake like being with a rooster head or the name could be interchangeable with a Basilisk. Mind you the Cockatrice is always depicted with wings while the Basilisk is not.The creation legend for both creatures is very similar.

If these creature are so easy to control and these magical creature handlers have so much time to plan than why do things go wrong. The answer is that shit happens. You can't expect to unleash these beast against these children(relatively speaking) and expect everything to just work out. I suppose you could and that would explain the death toll.

 

I don't know his progress, but all I said was that with finals coming for most people, we should expect to wait for a month at the least. Never said anything about hoping he updates soon either. The wait makes the update all the better anyway.

 

I guess its just to easy for me to see people cheating to make sure Harry loses. Especially since in cannon there is cheating to ensure that everyone except for Nathan loses. I can't act like facing down a Dragon is easy just because other people have done it in the past. The people who did it in cannon all got injured off-screen in the process.

 

In canon, the third task was the only task in which Crouch sabatoged the other contestants to help Harry win. In the first task, it would be pretty difficult to sabatoge Harry so that he loses. Harry would have to be pretty retarded not to realize that his wand was tampered with or damaged and if the contestants do an anything overt, like poisoning him, they either get disqualified or Harry is healed. Like Pers said, the only way to really make the tasks challenging to this Harry would be to pull a Shezza or Jbern.

 

It's really a credit too them that they're the only two to really invent tasks, it takes creativity. But I wouldn't put it past Santi to invent a few tasks to make it interesting.

 

That's a bit unfair isn't it? I remember seeing a few creative ones back when I actively searched out new fics instead of trawling for good ones by piggybacking off my favorite authors' favorites list. Two in particular I can remember right now are the Champions forced to drink poison and create an antidote in a time limit before they get crippled by the effects and flying to the moon to pick up an object (with my luck the story was probably written and posted here first).

The First Task feels set in stone at this point with Kosarev's dragon remark. I would wait a while longer before making any conclusions. Guessing is quite fun though.

 

I would be surprised considering that Harry won't actually be in the tournament. I don't expect the tournament to be a major part of this story at all really.

 

I wouldn't really say it's unfair, I never said that they were the only ones to do so, just that they were the only two to really invent tasks, there are others out there, but Shezza and JBern did it first, and they did it better than everyone else. But I agree with Elisande; there really is no reason for the tournament to play a large role.

 

I think we all need to have a frank discussion over Harry's overall abilities. I think it's time to put this into some perspective.

Yes, Harry is a prodigy. He might even be a more talented than Dumbledore, Grindelwald, and Tom where at his age, but realize there is a big difference between 17 or 18 year old versions of them and Harry. A fucking ocean of difference between 30 year old versions of them and an almost impossible to measure difference between 100+ year old version of say Dumbledore.

As for being a prodigy, he is very skilled and is doing unimaginable things for his age. The key is his age. Making a semi-permanent enchantment receptacle is very impressive for his age, but remember that his own mother made one in fourth year with a professors help. So a midyear fifth year should be able to do it and a sixth year should have no problem completing the same feat. The point is that while impressive for his age in terms of magic it's not all that impressive. Even the whole being published for the switching spells thing. He accidentally discovered something cool. He wasn't a master predicting this would happen. He wasn't the equivalent of the first guy to find out how to find the area of a sphere and to prove it. He was the guy playing around in the kitchen and discovered how to make potato chips. Yes an amazing discovery that changed cooking forever, but not really all that impressive from an overall point of view.

I will say it's very impressive that he skipped a few years in classes, but realize that he just finished fourth year Charms and Transfiguration and third year everything else. He is going into fifth year Charms and Transfiguration, but he hasn't taken the classes yet. That means that any competent six year should have a better working knowledge and be able to cast things which for Harry are currently impossible, let alone what an actual 7th year could do. True, Harry probably has a better mastery over what he knows how to cast, but they are currently more advanced than him. Realize that a competent 5th, 6th, and 7th year like Hermione Granger from various years in canon would be more advanced than Harry. Of course Harry is a much better duelist than her right?

Lets put his dueling into perspective, he is roughly a match for Calypso, maybe a little more powerful. She of course is extremely powerful in dueling for her age. Your face when you realize that Kira is a match for Calypso. In fact she just started beating her. If it wasn't for Calypso mind magic Kira would have beat her a long time of go so that means that Harry is about on Kira's level dueling ability. In fact if you think about it Kira is now in what 5th year or so in most of her classes maybe higher in some others. That means she is above Harry scholastically. Realize in term overall ability and magical usage that Kira ranks above Harry. Now ask yourself do you think that Kira could easily get through the challenges that she would tear through a dragon? I didn't think so.

Lets keep going on this ranking. Do you think that Harry could beat old man Rosier? I don't think so, in fact I would say he could take Harry, his daughter, Krum, and Kira down all at once. Realize that while Rosier isn't his son we can conclude given the way Calypso was raised that her brother was on par with their dad. James Potter and Sirius Black where on par with her brother so that puts them at roughly the same power as old man Rosier. Do you think James Potter could tear through a dragon. I don't, I think he could complete the tasks with out any real injury and I think he could make hell for the dragon. Be a great agent of chaos in general and win spectacularly, but I don't think it would be a cake walk. Of course than we have Dumbledore who I think could take on all the previously mentioned people with out breaking a sweat. Now for him taking on the challenges might be easy. Hell he could tear through the dragon. Go balls deep into that dragon and take that ass to town, but realize that he is light years away from Harry. 100+ years of experience and learning above Harry.

Everyone seems to think that Harry would easily complete the tasks that he would be the front runner and no one would stand a chance. When by his own skills he would in reality be the underdog. Of course now Nathan takes up that spot...actually Nathan can't even really be considered an underdog, he's more like the lamb for the slaughter. Without plot armor he's dead by the end of the first task.

 

I think The Santi made it quite clear that Harry has become the best duelist in the group. The only reason he struggled against Calypso in that one particular recent duel is because Rosier told him to stop using transfiguration/charms. Even then, if I remember correctly, it was only because he hesitated momentarily after thinking he'd beaten her (something he wont do again, presumably).

 

You assume linear growth over time.

In reality, after the age of 17 you're going to experience massively diminishing returns on your acquisition of knowledge. The vast majority of your magical knowledge will be picked up in school. Once you've finished NEWT-level transfiguration, for example, you pretty much know how to transfigure anything into anything, within the laws of the discipline.

After 17 you will be a) further refining skills you already possess b) picking up rare individual skills with specific purposes c) discovering more about the more esoteric parts of magic with little day to day application.

Consider Voldemort and Dumbledore: Dumbledore has around 50-70 years of experience on Voldemort, and they're of roughly equal "raw talent" (Voldemort perhaps a bit more talented, by Dumbledore's own admission), yet when they duel they're at a standstill. Apparently in 70 years of additional study, Dumbledore hasn't advanced sufficiently in skill beyond Voldemort for there to be any measurable difference.

With this in mind: yes, I think a 17 year old Tom Riddle would be able to go up against any wizard bar Dumbledore (and Grindelwald) and curbstomp them. I believe a 17 year old Tom Riddle would have been able to duel Dumbledore in a manner not dissimilar to his 70 year old self - though of course not quite so well. But well enough to hold his own and escape.

Harry is 3 years or so off that level of magic.

Yes, there are some items of knowledge he currently lacks that the upper years possess. However, I think he'd be able to beat any of them in a duel. His depth of understanding makes up for any lack of particular knowledge.

Harry is not roughly a match for Calypso. He's only roughly a match when he's handicapped by having charms and transfiguration barred from the fight. When he was allowed those two, he took her apart in seconds.

On another matter, you're massively overestimating the power of dragons in Harry Potter. It only takes five ordinary wizards to able to completely subdue them, and they're not using dark magic or seeking to actually hurt them. They're using stunning charms.

Harry is not an ordinary wizard, and he is talented at Dark magic. And the task doesn't even require that you defeat the dragon. Of course, it's a tournament so it's not like he can walk up to the dragon and down it with the Killing Curse, but still. There are numerous ways within his already existing knowledge to subdue a dragon relatively easily without having to resort to the Killing Curse. It doesn't take special magic to do so: just clever application of the magic he already knows. Just like the lake.

These are tasks designed for slightly above average school children possessing OWL-level knowledge (sixth years with an appropriate birthday can enter). That's what most Tri-wizard competitors are: slightly above average. Cedric, Fleur, Krum... none of them were as talented as the marauders, or, hell, even Hermione, never mind someone of Dumbledore's level.

They're not some gauntlet of death. Kid gloves are on.

 

I'm assuming that Dumbledore went through war and spent a great deal of time becoming a killing machine. I think of Hogwarts Newt level kind of like how I think or High School Calculus and all the other maths you take up to that point. Yeah it's more than what most people will ever use and you are quite skilled, but really it's only the basics of the subject. Really it's what you need to really start getting a higher education in the real world. Since we don't hear about wizard college I'm assuming their still on some type of master apprentice program of some sort. My own speculation.

I agree with what your saying here, but I believe your really starting your true magical education after Hogwarts. I mean do you believe that even an extremely competent 7th year how took potions and is planning to become a master is really not learning all that much after he graduates. That being 7th year gives you a potions mastery level. Think, does completing the chemistry classes in high school make you any type of competent chemist. No, it doesn't. It takes years of study added on to what you already know and real world experience to have any real grasp of chemistry. Magical chemistry should take the same, if you add that brewing takes some real skill than it would take even longer.

When your in your hundreds do you expect to be as physical fit as you were in your 50s or as finely honed? Do you think you could match yourself at 50? True magic isn't physical, but battle is. Also keep in mind that Voldemort was practicing the darkest of the dark arts which seem to give him a great advantage over just using light oriented spell work and yet Dumbledore still pulled even with him. Add to that we also know that Voldemort was enhancing himself.

I don't. For example do you think 17 year old Tom Riddle would stand a chance against Mad Eye, James Potter, or Sirius Black in their prime. I don't.

Consider how much he's leaned in just a year or two of magic. That's my point, that in 3 year he will be a force to be reckoned with, but for now he's not all that impressive.

Do you think he can beat Krum. That's really about where the Champions fall in term of skill or higher as I considered him one of the least skilled compared to the other two.

I would reread this if I were you. I'm going to reread this later to make sure I'm right, but I remember them both ending up in the hospital in their last duel.
**I finally found it and reread it and I was wrong, but he won with a disillusionment charm. I would hope that any competent adult wizard wouldn't have lost to that. I would also like to point out that they didn't become really serious in the duel till they were both limited to offense. I mean the first duel had stunners, knee inverting hexes, and concussion charms. The seconded opened practically with Vulcans Hammer. In fact if you look at the duel Harry was being the aggressor while Calypso seemed to be holding back. Mostly likely because she wasn't prepared for Harry to be so aggressive. After she got hit with vulcans hammer she started tearing through his shields and knocking him on his ass.

Not quite, in fact it was the other way around. Calypso hesitated when she hit him with her finishing move, the “Skin-shredding curse".

"fired it at Calypso, who was so surprised that Harry was still actively dueling that she took the spell directly in the chest." If she hadn't have hesitated then she would have won the second duel. I admit that Harry is more powerful overall, but his dueling technique was to over whelm her with some really powerful and dangerous curses. I didn't expect that of him, Krum didn't expect that from him, and by Calypso's shock I would hazard a guess his girlfriend didn't expect that of him either. I mean did you expect mild mannered non aggressive Harry to attack like that in a friendly duel...a duel with his girlfriend for that matter? Would you cast Vulcan hammer on your girlfriend even if she was like Calypso? Escalate a friendly duel to near death?

It does mention he pushed down some guilt and threw three curses hoping to end the duel quickly. He didn't think he won, he was thinking he could win if he hit her hard and fast enough.

Five you say? Are you sure? I seem to remember a dozen or a group of them. All casting stunning charms all at once. So if your right 5 wizards all combining their energy to subdue a dragon. Somehow I don't think casting 5 stunning charms on something is the same as 5 stunning charms hitting you at the same time. Could be wrong.

Really, the same Harry that doesn't want to learn much more about the dark arts, the same Harry that just learned how actually cast a dark arts spell with any real power? The same Harry who's entire family is watching him and hates the dark arts, that Harry?

Also what magic is he going to use to subdue this dragon. Fleur's method is the only one that really seems safe and she ended up set on fire. Of course would he really think to put the dragon to sleep? Canon Harry has seen how effective putting to sleep magical creatures is, along with Hermione and neither one of them thought to put the dragon to sleep. Would Krum? Mister shoot the thing in the face, think of that? Hell Sirius had the same idea and we could likely assume James Potter would have the same idea or something batshit crazy. Charming to sleep a creature instead of fighting it seems to be a very feminine approach to the problem, a Veela approach to the problem, a French approach to the problem. He really doesn't have any of those qualities that would allow him to think that up unless you count Calypso and she seems to more the same vein as Krum. I suppose Lily could think of it, but Hermione didn't and running to your mom for help...well I don't see him doing that. Of course I doubt any muggleborn would ever think of putting a dragon to sleep or even that you could put one to sleep. Maybe wait for it to go to sleep, but the idea that you can really effect a dragon is probably a foreign idea I mean they really pushed the whole spell resistant armor in the literature.

Didn't you above say that by the time you complete your school all your really doing is refining your skills a little. Where talking about a contest to pit the very best of each school, most likely 7th years against each other for the glory of the school. Everything we know about this contest suggests that it's dangerous and deadly. Krum did manage to become an animagus so he has some skill. Hermione is very good, but do you think 7th year Hermione would have gone through the challenges easily? I don't, at least not easily.

I will correct the grammar of this later, I don't have time to do that right now. So I apologies for that.

 

Dumbledore is a transfiguration master while Voldemort is well, Voldemort. I think Dumbledore is more skilled, I bet that he knows every kind of magic, even that "dark" aspect but he just does not use it. Voldemort is a guy who likes destroying, he is focused on eliminating his enemies and becoming more powerfull. I think that makes them equal.

 

Voldemort, by Dumbledore's own admission knows probably more magic than anyone in the world.

 

I disagree strongly. For two reasons:

1. Hogwarts is the end of the line, educationally speaking. There are vocational training programs, but no generalist or academic institutions beyond Hogwarts. If there was such a significant body of magic to be learned after Hogwarts, there would be institutions to offer such things.

2. Calculus and magic are fundamentally different. Magic, while it is underpinned by theory, is more like engineering. It's a practical skill. Calculus is a theoretical exercise that will never end. It's literally impossible to ever complete calculus (thanks, Godel). There can always be more calculus. The same is not true of magic.

For example: once you can transfigure any given object into any other given object, your knowledge of transfiguration is complete. This occurs at the end of Hogwarts. They've studied how to turn inanimate objects into other inanimate objects (years 1-2). They've studied how to turn inanimate objects into animate objects, and vice versa, and animate objects into other animate objects. They've studied how to vanish, how to conjure. And they've studied human transfiguration. What transformation remains, exactly?

All that remains is to increase your skill with what you already know. To be able to do it larger, and more detailed.

Charms is more complicated, because there appear to be a great many charms. Of course you cannot know all of them at the end of 7 years, or probably even at the end of your life. But you know enough of them by the end of those 7 years to do pretty much anything you could want, both in day to day life and in a duel. Here's what you can do at the end of Hogwarts Charms (assuming you're a good student like Hermione):

Movement Charms - Charms that change the location of an object, including levitation, handling, summoning, banishing, ordering (e.g. tidying charm, washing up charm, polishing charm), erection and collapse.

Animation Charms - Charms which make objects move under their own power, and the command spells to control them.

Blocking Charms - Charms to prevent certain things from happening. Property lines, Muggle repelling charms, protection charms, shield charms, anti-rain charms, fire-damping charms, etc.

Amplitude Charms - Charms which affect quantity and intensity, which start and stop things. Engorgio and Reducio (mass), Sonorus and Silencio (sound), Lumos and Nox (light) Undetectable Extension Charm (space), refilling (quantity).

Linking Charms - Charms that link things together, e.g. Protean charm.

Healing Charms - Charms related to diagnosis and repair. Most obvious is of the human body, but also of objects (repairing charms) and, at the highest level, magic itself (damaged Charms and enchantments - e.g. Draco's Vanishing Cabinet).

Revelation Charms - Charms which reveal and conceal. Opening and locking charms, Specialis Revelio, Homenum Revelio.

Atmospheric Charms - All Charms that affect the air/climate. Atmospheric charms, Bubble-head charm, drought charm.

Undoing Charms - Charms which undo things. From simple things like knots to complex spells. (e.g. finite).

Cosmetic Charms - Charms that change the physical appearance of a thing.

Heat Charms - Charms that deal with heat, fire, and cold. Warming charms, fire creation charms.

Object Charms - Charms which change the physical characteristics of an object, without actually altering the physical composition. Unbreakable charms, strengthening charms, feather-light charms, sticking charms, duplication etc.

Destruction Charms - Charms that remove matter, either by vanishing, blasting or explosion. Defodio, Deprimo, Reducto, Confringo, Diffindo, Expulso etc.

Conjuring charms: charms that create things and animals.

...and more besides.

Now, that's not everything in the world. There are obscure bits of powerful magic that Hogwarts doesn't teach, like the Fidelius charm and Gubraithian fire. But these are exactly that: obscure. Impressive and powerful under certain circumstances, but with limited utility. Normally, if you wanted to start a fire, you'd use any number of fire creation charms before Gubraithian fire.

Mastery as a qualification is a fanon concept. Hogwarts, which is modelled after British boarding schools, has a Potions Master in the same way Mr. Weaver was the History master at my school, or my Dad was the Boarding Master at St. Felix. In this context, master means "guy in charge of".

It really isn't. Read OotP again. The best example we have of top level fighting. It reads more like a game of chess than a brawl. They're fighting with their minds, not their bodies. Dumbledore barely moves, and when he does he's strolling. Voldemort, younger and in his prime, doesn't move either. When they do need to, they apparate.

Dumbledore also had the Elder Wand and Fawkes.

Also, please give me a canon source fo this "light magic" you speak of.

Also, the only Dark magic Voldemort really uses in that duel is the Killing Curse. And possession, but that's not directed at Dumbledore.

The point is we have:

Dumbledore
Prodigy.
130 years of experience.
Elder wand.
Fawkes.

vs.

Voldemort
Prodigy.
60 years of experience.

And they still draw, more or less. Dumbledore has the upper hand at the end, but Fawkes also took a Killing Curse for him, so I think it evens out.

So those differences between them - 70 years of experience, a Phoenix and a legendary wand - are insignificant factors compared to the fact that they are both prodigies.

The idea of rituals to enhance yourself is fanon.

Voldemort refers to rituals in GoF, but:

1. He is talking solely about rituals seeking immortality.

2. We now know he was talking about his many horcruxes.

I think he would have wiped the floor with them. Simultaneously. With one spell.

He and Krum aren't even on the same page. Krum's got a lot better, largely due to Harry's tutoring, but it's apples and oranges. All the characters recognise it. Quote Dumbledore: "you would be the better competitor".

That's the point. Harry has such mastery of magic that he can use simple magic, executed with near perfection, to dominate those who are using what is considered much more powerful magic (like Vulcan's Hammer and other Dark arts). I'd wager Hary's stunning charm is so perfectly cast that it could smash through most adult wizards' shields.

Looked it up, it says 7 or eight. Closer to five than a dozen, at least.

And the point re:stunning spells was obviously not that Harry could just cast five stunning spells in a row (though they do seem to act cumulatively in some way, see OotP where the Aurors are attacking Hagrid). The point was that Harry probably can cast spells that are more powerful than five ordinary adult wizards' stunning spells put together.

The first thought is that he could use the conjunctivitis curse, as Krum did in canon. That's what most people would probably do. It was highly effective when Krum used it. He got points taken off for damaged eggs, sure, but in terms of subduing the dragon it worked well.

However, there are a number of other strategies open to him. He could transfigure giant chains and charm them unbreakable and use them to bind the dragon. He could try to affect the dragon's mind in some way - maybe sleep, maybe something else. I don't think sending the dragon to sleep is a "feminine" solution, whatever that means (surprise sexism lol), and it seems to me it's perfectly possible Harry could think of it. He has lots of experience with mind magic, for one, and he's also quite adept at subtle and delicate magic. He's not a magical thug.

In addition to these offences, he could go the stealth route, with a disillusionment charm and a variety of other charms to mask everything the body gives off to give away its position.

He will also be prepared to defend, of course. Shield charm is obvious, as is the flame freezing charm. Some kind of spell to arrest momentum as well, should the dragon, for example, swing its tail at him. He'd be perfectly capable of Cedric's idea to transfigure distractions as well.

Finally, if all else failed, he could fall back on Dark magic and just brute force it.

It sounds like you stopped reading about 10 chapters ago.

99% of the time, the very best of each school is still merely an above average wizard. Maybe you'd get a wizard of Hermione's ability sometimes - maybe once a decade. Every couple of decades, if you hold the tournament every four years, you might get a wizard of the Marauder/Snape/Lily/McGonagall/Slughorn calibre. And once a century or so, you'd get a wizard like Harry, Dumbledore, Voldemort, or Grindelwald.

 

Aren't we talking about fanon? This is fanfiction, is it not.

 

We are, but the general assumption in a fic is "it's the same as canon unless otherwise stated".

Most of what appears in BWL is canon compliant.

I don't recall the characters ever speaking of masteries as qualifications, but I may be wrong.

If Masteries do exist in the BWL world, then I still stand by my argument. I don't think a wizard like Harry would have much to learn from a Master programme, much like I don't think he'd have much to learn from Auror training.

What some wizards need to be taught, others can figure out on their own.

 

I disagree. The only vocational training program that we even heard about was the caretakers little pamphlet for courses. While I agree it would seem there is no academic institution after Hogwarts there would mostly certainly be apprenticeships. Apprenticeships being a natural progression in how people learn. There are limits to what you can learn and understand with just books(of course Harry might not be limited, but what about the common man). A ward breaker for example needs specialized training and knowledge to effectively do what he does. He needs experience. Most likely you need some type of creditability to prove you can do the job. Which leads to the advent of certifications or having a name backing you and vouching for you. Also given that wizards seem to have a very middleages type of culture it would make sense for them to have masters and apprentices. This doesn't even speak to really complex jobs like being a potions...what other word would you like to use other than master?

The very word seems to suggest apprenticeships and the boarding school usage that you seem to attributing to wizarding culture is predated by the apprenticeships usage. In fact it seems to be pretty common all through out England's history from the 12th century on ward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship#United_Kingdom
True wizarding history is different, but this is one of the things that mostly likely crossed over. Might have even come from the wizarding side. It's a natural progression of learning in a society and it ends with universities.

Than try potions to chemistry. Exact same idea just one uses things with magical properties.

I should point out there can always be more magic.

You realize there isn't an overriding transfiguration spell right. A single spell that does everything and even if there where it wouldn't work as well as a spell specifically geared for one thing. They learned specific spells that introduced them to the concepts. Just because you have mastered one transfiguration spell doesn't mean you can suddenly transfigure any given object into any other given object. If you taught a kid to drive a car and even if he got really good at driving it that doesn't mean he can suddenly go drive a semi perfectly, or a boat , or hell a plane, or for that matter a manual transmission car. Their all vehicles they all get you from point a to point b but they are all very different. If you give a good a basic understanding of how a car works that doesn't mean he knows how a plane works. I used this as an example because it's a skill almost all of us have. Just like how transfiguration seems to be a skill most wizards have.

You realize that every charm is unique and that casting each one is different right. Just because you can levitate a feather or cast a cheering charm doesn't mean you can cast the Fidelius charm or hell even an Accio spell. They all require different wand waving, incantation, and mindset. Along with that you actually need your magic to do what you want it to do. That's the hard part.

Do you really think that 7th years can cast these without any instruction. Their entire academic lives they've had their hands held and been walked through spells and you think that they can sit down with a book and just learn this. I'm sure if you were a master with years of experience in a field you could learn from just from a book, but a bunch of 18 yr olds doing this with no help? No.

From your points above I'm getting the impression that you think that once you have learned to do something it really takes no effort at all. That you can do it perfectly from than on in any situation. That after you have been successful in casting all the spells you listed that they will be effortless and you will remember how to actually do them all. That by learning to cast some advanced charms that your suddenly a master of all charms. Sure if you do something often enough you can lesson the effort a lot, I mean transfiguration teacher who's been doing for 50 years can make advanced things look easy, but that just a deception.

Hogwarts was started a thousand years ago...their wasn't any British boarding schools if I'm not mistaken. They also call them Professors vs calling them teachers. I'm not sure in England if their is a distinction, but there is in America.

I just realized that Harry was published in Transfiguration Today. This means some type of academia exists outside of Hogwarts.
We could assume that Santi molded it off of Science Today
http://www.sciencetodaymagazine.com/

What do you call a wizard scientist, researcher, and professor?...potion master, transfiguration master, charms master?

You don't think that utilizing magic isn't physically demanding and exhausting? We have enough evidence in canon to disagree with that.

It might be fanon, but given that he was searching for immortality and was in essence trying to overcome his own weakness. You know like being mortal and the other parts that come with being human, it would follow he would try to enhance himself. Besides did you really think red eyes were normal? After he resurected himself you think that his body was normal...other than the apparent lack of cartilage? I mean if your going to build yourself a body wouldn't you enhance it?

Than our views differ considerably.

Yes, Harry is the better wizard and will end up being way more powerful, but currently I don't think Harry's that much above Krum in dueling if at all.

His stunner didn't even break Calypso's shield. You are really putting his power and skill way up there.

Also he was the one using the more powerful magic. He started the first duel with fireballs and the seconded with a gouging spell and Vulcan's Hammer. He dominated Calypso with not simple magic, but sheer power and more effectively with the complete surprise that was his willingness to throw really powerful, painful, and destructive magic at his girlfriend. She was not expecting that and once she caught on she had Harry beat and hesitated and than he made it end with a draw.

Do you mean that Harry can cast a stunning spell more powerful than 5 wizard stunning spells combine or that he can cast spells in general that are more powerful than those 5 stunners combined. The first would you way overpowering Harry and seconded is kind of obvious. A killing curse is way more powerful and destructive than a stunning spell so casting a spell that is way more powerful than another isn't hard, but casting the same spell that is more powerful than the combined force of 5 wizards is. Assuming of course they were casted with the same effort. Purposely overpowering your spell doesn't count unless the aurors were doing the same.

He didn't subdue it he enraged the damn thing. From there the dragon handlers took over.

That is your idea?:facepalm

Do flame freezing spells work on dragon fire? Being that a dragon is a magical creature couldn't we presume it's fire has magical properties to it like it's blood. Do you honestly think that arresto momentum would work or that Harry would have time to cast it?

Yeah....I don't think a killing curse could really bring down a dragon. I suppose fiendfyre could, but I don't see him doing that. Especially in front of his entire family.

He learned some dark stuff to prepare for the tournament, but that hardly means that he suddenly dived head first into it.

You realize that all four Marauders, Snape, and Lily where all in the same year right? That a great deal of some the most powerful wizards we know were within four years of their year such as Lucius, the Black sisters, most of the death eater we know. That Voldemort and McGonagall were in the same time period together. Dumbledore and Grindelwald were also in the same time period together and all of of them together were in the same century right? I think your underestimating the wizarding world and overestimating Harry.

---------- Post automerged at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 PM ----------

What do these mean in this world:
"While I know that your mother is a charms mistress in her own right, if you ever need an extra opinion or help, I would be honored to assist you. ",

"“My mother is a charms mistress, Calypso. It's not like she doesn't know how to remove a simple charm like that, and these candles aren't enchanted,” Harry explained patiently. “Now, stop stalling and make a wish.”
"
It sure as hell sounds like a title to me.


So most wizards aren't at the end of their training after Hogwarts, only wizards like Harry are? I can't believe that you don't think Harry couldn't learn anything in the Auror program. Especially right now, I mean sure in 5-10 years I could go along with that, but now?

Some of the greatest painters we know who had some the greatest natural artistic talent were apprenticed and they all learned something. I mean your saying it would be pointless for Harry to be apprenticed to Dumbledore because he wouldn't learn anything from him. WTF.

 

dead-horse-stick.jpg

I don't know how you can manage to respond to every, single one of Taure's points and completely miss what he's saying.

1. Harry is a prodigy.

2. In 7 years of school a prodigy will acquire 'mastery' in most/all subjects (barring obscure magics).

3. A prodigy's time is then spent refining his knowledge, seeking out the obscure spells, honing his dueling technique, etc.

4. After a certain level any real differences due to experience disapear.