When Edo Madara first arrives, he thinks he has been resurrected via Rinne Tensei by Nagato. Its only after Muu tells him, that he realises he has been brought back as an Edo!Zombie instead. He also confirms that unlike the face of Hashirama (which was placed there by Kabuto), he gained rinnegan on his own. That means he must have lived after the Hashirama fight.

However the fact that he thought he would be brought back via Rinne Tensei, and the fact that Tobi is angry (in his thoughts) that Nagato used RT for Naruto seems to suggest that Madara was dying post-VotE anyway and implanting his Rinnegan into Nagato post-death was a plot to bring him back via RT, after Nagato had grown strong enough to do it.

Who Tobi is, is still unknown, but he obviously has some association with Madara and probably did intend to bring him back. Why this has not happened yet is unknown. Maybe because Madara died too long ago, and Nagato had not yet mastered RT enough to bring back someone long dead (since he says to Naruto that he can only bring back those that died the same day).

 

Wait, how does that even lead to that conclusion? Rarity of occlumency books?

Eh, never mind. It's not important in any stretch of the world.

 

Shenanigans again.

But Tsunade still remains the sexiest bitch in Naruto.

:3

For some reason, that was the overwhelming thought in my mind after reading this chapter. Probably my mind's method of coping with all the Uchiha bullshit.

Boobs are always a good Coping method.

 

Er, what? Not sure I understand.

When Madara was brought back, he first falsely believed that Nagato had done so. He refers to Nagato as a "brat" and says that he (Nagato) finally managed to grow up. That means he knew Nagato as a child. The fact that he believed Nagato brought him back, and was surprised at being an edo means that Madara first thought he had been brought back to life by Nagato via Rinne Tensei.

Tobi also refers to the fact that Rinne Tensei was meant to be used in his service, rather than for Naruto (to bring back Madara). We also learn from edo!Madara that he was the one who awakened the rinnegan.

So basically, we have canon confirmation that Madara lived long enough to learn of Nagato and the fact that Nagato was to be given the rinnegan. Given the timeline, I believe that means that Madara HAD to live beyond the VotE fight, since if he HAD died there he would never have got the rinnegan OR met Nagato.

His reference to Nagato as a "brat" that finally grew up would suggest he actually died when Nagato was a child. This would have been during the Second Shinobi World War. At that point, Sarutobi was not only the hokage, but had trained Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru who had all reached adulthood, which means Hashirama was long dead.

Or to put it in a nutshell: edo!Madara Knowing who Nagato is means he far outlived Hashirama which means he did not die during their big fight.

EDIT:

I should add that the fact that Tobi claims to have given Nagato the rinnegan. The fact that he told this to Konan who he intended to kill momentarily, and that Nagato shows signs of having implanted eyes (constantly active like Kakashis sharingan) all suggests this is true.

So while this part is speculation, the timeline is probably like this:

1. Real Madara fights Hashirama. He loses but manages to gain some Senju DNA or something from Hashirama and escapes with his life.

2. Real Madara somehow awakens the rinnegan. Given the story we got about the two sons of the sage, it is likely that you get rinnegan if you combine the two bloodlines (EMS+Senju=Rinnegan). Regardless, somehow Madara awakened the rinnegan.

3. Hashirama dies and Tobirama becomes the second hokage. Then Tobirama dies and Sarutobi becomes the hokage. Then Sarutobi trains his team to adulthood. It is around this point that Nagato is born. At this point, Hashirama has been dead for many decades.

4. Madara lives long enough to learn who Nagato is and that he is meant to resurrect him as an adult, and then dies. He dies when Nagato is a child, giving us a time of death. Somewhere prior to this point he makes an alliance with Tobi somehow. Tobi might be a clone of Madara or Zetsu creation or someone that Madara trusted. We don't know how Madara dies, but we can presume he was hurt in the VotE battle and finally succumbed to his injuries. He might also have died from old age.

5. Tobi implants Madaras two rinnegan eyes into Nagato, who as an Uzumaki/descendant of the younger brother is probably well suited for them. This happens shortly after Madara dies presumably.

6. Nagato grows up under Tobis watchfull eye and is trained by Jiraiya. Akatsuki is started thanks to Tobi. Nagato goes nuts and the events of the series happen.

7. Naruto convinces Nagato to sacrifice his life to bring back the village of Konoha using Rinne Tensei.

8. And finally, Tobi finds Nagatos corpse and takes back the rinnegan eyes. He is also majorly pissed that Nagato used Rinne Tensei for Naruto, rather than for Tobi. Since Tobi is not dead and has an extremely good way to stay alive thanks to his intangibility, that probably means Tobi meant for RT to be used to bring back Madara.

 

At this point, the Sharingan should be redefined. It is no longer a kekkai genkai, but a ninja in its own right--it certainly has enough jutsus to qualify. Hell, just dispense with the Uchiha altogether and have floating eyeballs be the main protagonists.

Also, simply because we only see Tobi and Nagato with their doujutsu activated, doesn't mean they were implanted. Itachi usually had his Sharingan activated at all times, and he was born with it. It may just be a matter of preference.

 

Most of that makes sense to be except why didn't get Tobi make Nagato to use Rinne Tensei to resurrect Madara sooner? Or why didn't Tobi just use them himself?

Most of the rest I agree with. Tobi and Madara are working together. Yet if Madara gave up his eyes why did he have them when he was brought back with Edo Tensei?

 

Nagato claimed that he was on time to resurrect all those he had killed during the Konoha attack. That implies that Nagato has a timelimit, and he cannot bring back those that have been dead long enough. Which makes sense, since if he could he would presumably have resurrected Yahiko and Jiraiya.

Its possible that Nagato had still not mastered the rinnegan sufficiently. Or perhaps there is a power issue and Nagato turned out to be too weak. Same might be true with Tobi. Have we ever seen Tobi do any chakra intensive feats at all? If Tobi is just a clone or construct or something, he might not have been able to resurrect Madara, even if he implanted the rinnegan into himself the second Madara died.

Maybe one of the reasons to recreate the Juubi, is to create a source of chakra potent enough to power a Rinne Tensei capable of bringing back those who have been dead for decades, such as Madara.

Or maybe to bring back someone decades dead, you have to die yourself. Nagato died to bring back the village afterall. Tobi might not have managed to manipulate Nagato into sacrificing himself yet, and ofcourse Tobi does not want to die himself. There is also the fact that Madaras soul is not accessible to Tobi thanks to the Edo Tensei, so even if Tobi wanted to perform Rinne Tensei on Madara, he cannot so long as Madaras soul is not in the afterlife. And ofcourse Kabuto got Madara as an ET before Tobi got the rinnegan back.

As for why Madara had his eyes, its because Edo Tensei resurrects people as they were. So the fact Madara had his eyes removed after his death is meaningless. The same is true for Itachi, his real eyes are now in Sasuke but edo!Itachi still has eyes. The full rules of how Edo Tensei work have not really been revealed. Maybe its just how the summoned soul sees himself, or how they were when they died or when the dna was collected or somesuch.

 

Speaking of Nagato and the Rinnegan- after reading your run down on things, Datakim, I'm wondering if there really were any Konohan shinobi that attacked his family.

If Tobi took the Rinnegan from Madara after death and transplanted it to Nagato, when did he do so and how did he get away with no one the wiser? So perhaps it was all just one complex genjutsu to conceal the process or so.

 

Really doubt that. We're way past Nagato's backstory, and changing it now would be pointless, with all that's going on.

 

This ain't pokemon.

EDIT: Just wanted to say that.

 

I know that the above is true, but I'm still never going to accept Lightning beating Earth. No. Damn. Sense.

 

Kinetic force behind it, perhaps? Similar to what Pikachu pulled off against Skyeater in Game of Champions.

 

No. Lightning pierces, and electrocutes. It beats Earth by "cutting" through it.

 

But lightning doesn't do that. Or maybe it does, and I've just never seen an enormous fucking hole in the ground from where a bolt of lightning pierced it. Either way, I think it would make worlds more sense to have it beat water.

 

In Naruto, lightning piercing earth works by making millions of tiny vibrations--basically a super-speed jackhammer.

At least, that's how the Chidori was described as working in its initial debut. The way it works may have changed by now, given all the retcons that have been given during the series.

 

Get over it. It's a dynamic element vs. a static one. I don't really see the big issue. Something had to be weak to lightning and something had to be strong to it. That on its own doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but deal with it.

 

Wind doesn't 'cut' either; it blows, and in the Narutoverse, there are techniques that do both. Is that more plausible?

Natural lightning and created lightning are two very different things.

 

This. Ninja basically create "fake" elements by transforming their chakra. Separating between real element and chakra-created elemental technique is noted in the manga.

 

The only way wind 'cutting' makes sense is if it kinda 'rips' things apart in a very specific location for it to make sense.

 

New chapter is up!
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/57079454/1

Spoilers:

Spoiler

Madara's Perfect Susanoo is a fucking kaiju.
And he basically cops to having been trolling the Five Kages all along.
And Itachi....is a boss.
But we already knew that