Did not Hermione say that an aqualung would not work in Hogwarts grounds? I cannot remember if she did or not, but if she did, I do not think those are electronic in any way.

My personal interpretation is that magic messes not with a specific physical process, but rather with stuff that is just very Muggle-ish. Mechanical watches and telescopes are romantic objects that feel traditional and don´t feel out of place in the wizarding world, so they work. Under this interpretation, an old fashioned rifle of the sort used in the 1800s might work at Hogwarts, but a modern rifle would not, even though they work by essentially the same process.

(This post brought to you without apostrophes thanks to Spanish keyboards).

 

An aqualung should work fine.

I feel like any sort of rifle would work too, Taure. They use purely mechanical work. Of the many flaws that often accompany bad Sniper!Harry fics, the magical theory behind them is at least sound.

 

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn´t. However, using the fact that they´re mechanical against the idea that "magic messes not with a specific physical process" is something of a non-sequitur.

 

That's an almost Dresdenesque interpretation of magic-tech interactions. I don't necessarily agree, but it would certainly be a valid mechanic for a fic's magic system.

Out of curiosity, is the threshold of interaction a moving target in your interpretation? As of Ghost Story, we know that Dresdenverse wizards don't affect the things they used to in previous centuries (candles, milk, et al.). Would there be any long term fluidity in your version of Hogwarts?

 

Tangent question...

How the fuck does Lee Jordan's commentator microphone work at Hogwarts?

Is it... I dunno... a stick with a built-in sonorus charm?

 

I would say it very much is disputed.

And, I do not even remotely buy into the whole Dresden schtick about magic and technology applying to the Harry Potter world. I know they both have main characters named Harry, they both feature magic, and many people here at DLP like both series... but they are not the same series, and don't take place in the same reality.

Some people are still struggling with that fact.

Diagon Alley sits right the fuck on top of muggle London. Magic vehicles occasionally zoom down the streets, the PM has a magical painting in his office. The Ministry of Magic is in a muggle city. And, yet, you don't see cars stopping in the streets, or people with pacemakers keeling over outside the Leaky Cauldron.

Which, I suppose, means even a magical shopping district, or a place as large as the Ministry, creates fewer interfering emissions than a cheap microwave.

Harry had a muggle watch at Hogwarts for years, and it only quit working because he wore it in the lake for over an hour, and it wasn't waterproof.

The fact is, there's nothing to indicate technology can't work with/around magic. I could buy into someone saying that ultra-high magic areas, on the scale of something no less than Hogwarts, might interfere with radio/cell phone/television signals (though obviously the MoM and Diagon do not!), and probably cause batteries to go dead.

However, if you had a generator or ran power lines all the way out to Hogwarts, I fully believe you could use your computer there.

People need to pull their heads out of Jim Butcher's ass, or something.

 

Well, you're certainly right about magic in general not interfering with electronics. Hell, Mr. Weasley fixed an electric fire with magic and it worked fine.

But Hogwarts appears to be a special case. We're explicitly told that Muggle tech doesn't work there. My confusion above was solely about whether Hermione had explicitly ruled out the aqua-lung, a mechanical device.

@Blazzano:

I don't really consider it a subjective thing, depending on the wizard in question. Not least because Hogwarts isn't a person so can have no opinions on these matters. But even so, I wouldn't go in that direction. Nope, I much prefer to go for something gloriously mind boggling and incomprehensible to us Muggles - the idea that certain Muggle devices just don't work, and some do, and it's based on how "Muggleish" they are, but there is no particular rule that says what is too Muggle. It's not subjective, based on the opinions of wizards, but nor is it an objective part of the world - there's no list written into reality that says which Muggle devices work around highly magical places like Hogwarts. It's logic breaking.

 

Harry's watch was probably a manual wind-up hand-me-down from Vernon. I highly doubt that the Dursley's would have forked over the money to buy him a battery-powered watch. And yes, dropping a crappy manual watch into a lake is still going to fuck it up.

 

Harry Potter isn't set in the 60s. By 1991 basic electric watches were no more expensive than wind-up watches (and under $10), and a Dudley hand-me-down is more likely than a Vernon hand-me-down.

 

It's annoying (but not surprising) how vague Hermione was when trying to describe what Hogwarts does to Muggle devices. She names three things that all operate on electricity/electromagnetism, which is only one subset of things that a wizard might call a "Muggle substitute for magic."

On a somewhat related note, the first wizard who invents a magical version of a Muggle tablet computer is going to be a wealthy man. Sure, wizards don't need such a thing, but if a wizard enchants something that:

1) can communicate instantly with other tablets via something like the Protean charm
2) can accept handwriting and store it, and recall it on command
3) can accept dictation (with magically perfect voice recognition, of course)
4) can be placed on a the pages of a book to copy/store the text
5) is securely keyed to its owner,

the Ministry alone would buy hundreds. Beats the hell out of flying paper memos, at the very least.

 

All of that possible with HP magic like two way mirrors, protean charms, self dictating quills etc.

 

Oh God, if this is going to lead to an inventor!Harry plot bunny, let it die a horrible abortion now, please.

 

Yeah... Hermione may have started her statement with "all those muggle substitutes" but the examples she gives are from a pretty narrow field of muggle tech.

I don't recall anything from the books that would sway me from my current interpretation: Areas of ultra-high magic concentration don't mix well with electrically-based things, and tend to interfere with the reception of airborne signals.

I always assumed the watch was probably a wind-up watch, and I imagine that if they show him wearing one in the movies (off the top of my head, I can't recall), it probably bears that out.

However, my comments about the watch were directed toward the Dresden-esque notion that ANY technology more advanced than a pointed stick (like clockwork and handguns - both for the spring mechanism AND the chemistry of the gunpowder) will go haywire around magic.

Hehehe...

166,876 words, so far - and not a single contiguous chapter finished. But, he's probably more like a cross between Pygmalion, Batman, and a defense contractor who's his own client, rather than inventor!Harry.

 

It's all already possible, yes. But one curiosity of Wizard-kind - no doubt something intentionally made so by Rowling, for that extra burst of familiarity - is that despite all their magic, they are still consumer whores.

Wizards as a collective can do almost anything with magic. Individual wizards seem to be rather more limited. Huge swaths of them need a commercial "product" to maintain a shield, rather than casting their own Protego. The more advanced the object, the more likely they are to be forced to buy someone else's product - brooms are a good example.

Getting back to the magical tablet thing: two-way mirrors may be an uncommon item. Protean charms (N.E.W.T.-level) will be beyond the skills of some. As tedious as it sounds, I think that some of what passes for innovation in the Wizarding world is just this: not doing a thing with magic for the first time, but figuring out a way to make what was previously available to the most skilled wizards available to all.

Quoted for truth.

 

About wizards buying products instead of using spells:

Taure, In Essence Divided, Chapter 2

On being able to do anything by yourself vs. doing something well and paying someone else to do the rest:

(from a comment on a blog)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the books, it's Minister for Magic, not Minister of Magic, right? Wiki certainly seems to think so. I rarely ever see Minister for Magic in fanfics. This is pretty off-topic, but one of our forum titles is Minister of Magic. Why isn't it for? Too long?

 

It is indeed for.

The confusion comes between institution and individual.

The Ministry of Defence. The Minister for Defence.

The Ministry of Magic. The Minister for Magic.

 

This, I think, is probably the best answer we're going to get.

Most American positions of any importance are 'of'. Secretary of Defense. Secretary of the Treasury. Ad nauseum.

 

I agree with Hogwarts being a special case for most modern Muggle devices going haywire. Even the Ford Anglia freaking out on Hogwarts grounds might support this. Taure articulated the "law" better than I could (I'm not so good with the logic breaking mindfucks) but I'll have to add that Hermione was more than likely dumbing down her explanation for Harry and Ron's benefit. I'd always imagined Hogwarts was intentionally warded against hi-tech Muggle stuff in order to immerse the Muggleborns in magical culture and get rid of their dependence or preference for Muggle things. Given how few wizards there are and their xenophobic nature, this seemed to make the most sense.

As for the inventors, I again agree with what was said about "innovation" being more about new uses for old magic. Kind of like us really, slapping a flying charm on a fancy broomstick or a shiny casing and flashy OS on a shitty laptop might not seem that innovative, but if it sells it sells. Odd shit catches on and quality is not necessarily an indication of popularity. True innovation, like new magic or splitting the atom, is reserved for the likes of Einstein or Dumbledore. Shades of grey exist obviously but I think the analogy works.

Anyway, does there exist any quick way of learning languages in the magical world? I know absorbing the knowledge via memories is mostly used in cheap Super!Harry fics but I was curious about any good translation charms or whatnot used in canon. I'm actually interested in seeing a fic where language barriers between countries or creatures were done well.