Can anyone elaborate on the 'bandwagon' I have been running?

Also Lochness, to your first concern, are you honestly telling me that the post you mentioned (#125) looks like a filler?

I went on about lurking because I was accused of doing so. Then I gave a relatively (compared to other's reads') bigger read on Kensington, how exactly does this come down as filler?

Moving on, I am not liking Ash here, she has made posts yes, but they lack content, she tells us her reads without much justification for them.

And what I am most wary of,

Day 1

First half of Day 2

Ultimately she doesn't cats a vote. For anyone.

Day 3 (after Angel mis-lynch)

For those three posts,

Lynch Vote: Ash

Ash: Give me your thoughts on every one who is alive right now. In detail.

Moving on, I can agree with the argument that one of Lochness or Rapscallion is scum. I really don't like how Rapscallion immediately jumped on Lochness. And then Sesc followed it up with his vote. I am reasonably sure Stojil is town. Assuming Lochness to be town, makes Rapscallion likely to be scum. So if Sesc is also town, Raps' remaining two scum-buddies can immediately hammer in the lynch. (Probably not the case since the day is still going on.) If Sesc is scum they would need one more town vote to hammer the wagon. Either way, I would appreciate if there is no more formal vote against Lochness. If you think you want to lynch her say so, but don't actually put the vote in. You can follow it up with an actual vote at day end. We have 1 day and 20 hours remaining to discuss, I would like to use them.

 

Sesc's post and vote on LochNess is suspicious, she had the pressure on her already, he was just enabling someone to potentially hammer it..

I think he is scum. I'm also tired and full of food.

Lynch vote: Sesc

 

That's so weak, IMO, but whatever.

Still strongly against it. Even if we don't lynch scum today, bulletproof could be targeted, healer could use power on the right player, DoB could activate and kill scum, Innocent could die and grant night-immunity blanket, etc.

I'm in that tally as well and yet you "know the rest are town"? This reads like a scumtell, in which you got stuck in between your scum-knowledge and faketown-defence.

That said, Sesc' post is so contradictory that I simply don't know what to think anymore. He's assuming like most of us that it's an either/or LochNess/Rapscallion situation and yet says that with 2 votes on her, 3 scum could dogpile, forgetting that Rapscallion is already one of the two votes.

He also wonders whether there could be 4 scum, which not only is unlikely but it would put us 4 vs. 4, which is a scum-win unless there's a Judge role at the very least (unlikely as well). His attack on Rapscallion seems to indicate they're not a team and his vote on LochNess the same. Could he be that all scum piled on Gambit's wagon, after all? Maybe they had planned for Sesc to vote differently, but seeing that he arrived so late in the day and that placing it on AR would have been the scummiest thing ever (making it a tie), he had to follow his buddies.

This would mean that he voted and is waiting for his two scumbuddies (Castiel and Whooves?) to come in and clinch it.

/me sighs

This game.

Also, something about this I noticed in my reread:

Rapscallion's post back on day 2, clearly at odds with his last post. It could be that he simply was convinced by the argument, but... meh.

Sure.

Not even taking into consideration the position and the context, look at the reasoning. You repeated and agreed with something already stated by others (for Gambit) and you voted for the person with the most votes simply because it was the person with the most votes (for AR).

Ash not answering despite me asking a question twice makes me wanna kill her, but, hey, she needs to get in line. I also feel that those who try to analize her game by her past games are ignoring the fact that she's incredibly inconsistent, or better yet, there is no good pattern to follow. I can name lurker!Ashaya as both scum, power-role town and vanilla town. I can name active!Ashaya as both scum, power-role town and vanilla town.

Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on LochNess. Scum didn't dogpile, which could mean:

1) She's scum.
2) She's town, but there are already at least two scum among the three votes against her.
3) She's town, but scum can't or won't dogpile.

#2 would mean Rapscallion and Sesc are together, which could be, even despite the latter accusing the former. He never voted for him after all, opting to vote LochNess instead, whose lynch would give Rapscallion (who is in a sort-of either/or situation with her) one more day. At that point, Sesc could point at his distancing-accusation and use it to defend himself, bussing him.

#2 could also mean I am scum with at least one of them, but I obviously know I'm not, so you guys consider that, if you wish.

#3 would mean that either scum couldn't coordinate properly (unlikely) or that they don't feel such a tactic is necessary and/or worth the risk... whatever that risk would be.

I'm going with #1. Honestly, at this point, I want to know the truth more than actually win. I could see all of you flipping scum, which is a first for me.

 

I know you weren't really serious about it, but I'd just like to point out that I've been defending LochNess for my last few posts, so me randomly jumping on her bandwagon would be a ridiculous thing for me to do. Also, I don't think I've ever backed Sesc (to my knowledge), and think he's a very shifty character at the moment, so please don't associate me with him.


I think it might be scum pushing the LochNess lynch; Stojil's point 2. In fact, I could see any one of the current lynch-ers (Sesc, Stojil, Rapscallion) as scum, so it could be completely scum driven. It'd be a dangerous move, but all they need to do it lynch one more town to win, so pushing for a death such as this could be a viable tactic.

IMAO, three votes on one person so (relatively) early in the day is terribly volatile; no matter what faction started it. It would only take a couple of snap-decisions, or a concerted effort by scum, to potentially end the game for town. So, I'd recommend that at least one person takes their vote off LochNess - it can always be put back on later, and it would prevent accidents.

Stojil, I appreciate that you think LochNess is scum, but please can you take down your vote? Like I said before, hopefully by now she knows that she has pressure on her, and we don't need the additional danger that the votes present.

 

I don't want to put pressure on her. I want to lynch her. And the game will almost certainly be still on after her death, even if she's town (which I don't believe right now).

Let's assume I'm scum together with one between Sesc and Rapscallion or even both like you propose. In this scenario, there would be either one or no more scum out there (unless you think there could be 4 scum total), hence not enough to hard lynch. So, even in this scenario, it's town that would have to vote to reach 5.

My vote is staying where it is. If dogpiling LochNess would have won scum the game, do you really think it would have taken them so long to do it? No. It would be already long over.

Beside this, why even wait if we're not even doing anything useful? That's the most damning part that really makes me hope you're not town. Why aren't you scum-hunting? Trying to understand and decide who to lynch, promoting activity, asking questions? You're defending LochNess, that's one thing you're doing, and at this point in the game that should be very far from your primary objective, if town. Hell, Castiel just voted to lynch Ash without explanation. Ash isn't answering questions. Sesc' reasoning behind his vote is baffling. fontisian has proposed a mass-roleclaim plan which no one commented on. Rapscallion conveniently contradicted himself about the day 1 bandwagons. There's enough to talk for days.

 

No it won't. If she is town, tomorrow there will be 3 scum and 3 town alive. Scum can tie the lynch vote and then make a night-kill and end the game.

You are fucking kidding me me right? Go re-read the post where I put the lynch vote on her. She advocated to lynch AngelRick for so long but when the bandwagon caught on she conveniently left it. Then next day she is 'suspicious' of people who voted for Angelrick. If that is not a god-damn scum-tell I don't know what is.

On top of that she completely ignores your questions and my lynch vote on her in her latest post.

I can understand your reasoning behind doubting me. I am not proud that I was part of two mislynches but that does not mean I am scum by default. AngelRick did not need my vote to die. If I was scum I would have watched from the sidelines, exactly what Ash did.

 

You're right, there, apologies. I had somehow missed the final quote.

Kens didn't vote either and he flipped town. If the right move for scum during mislynches would be to "watch from the sidelines", then the no lynch "wagon" would be hilarious. As you can see, there isn't a definitive scum/town behavior. Also, I'm not accusing you because you were part of mislynches, but because of your bandwagony votes. No further comment on that, by the way?

Would you like to comment on fontisian's plan? On LochNess/Rapscallion? On Sesc vote and the dogpile theory?

---------- Post automerged at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Ugh... the first two quotes are an item (the second beind an answer to the first). The third goes with the rest of the post.

 

I don't care if you want to lynch her. I kind of figured that out after you placed a lynch vote on her. What I'm saying is that even if you think she's scum, even if she is scum - it is a bad thing if she is lynched now.

Did you even read my post? Like I said, the lynch is a couple of unthinking votes away from a hard lynch, and there is still a lot of the day left. I'm sure you can appreciate the need for knowledge in this game, and lynching LochNess before the day has played out will provide us with less information.

Yes, and that's why I mentioned that it was a scum-driven lynch, and referred to your point 2. I understand that town would have to vote in addition to scum, however, if so many high-profile names (such as you and Sesc) stand behind a lynch like this, you incite easily lead town players into follow your example.

It would be so easy for someone to skim through the thread, see that some big names have placed their vote on a bandwagon, and go "oh, well then, I'd better vote for LochNess", and in doing so deprive town of precious info which we need.

I think it'd be much safer for one of you to take your vote off LochNess.

 

Still nope. With how the game is going, how the level of activity has been, how the whole scumteam is still whole, I seriously fear for our lynch today as it is. Someone skimming through the thread and going "Oh, well then, I'd better vote for LochNess" is a lot preferable than someone skimming through the thread and going "there are so few votes... I'm not sure... I think I'm not gonna vote yet" and then forgetting, becoming busy or whatever. I think the latter is a far more likely possibility than the former. Inaction is always stronger than action.

Also, my final point still stands. Since you're so strongly advocating for the full day (which I obviously want as well), then make good use of the time left, please.

Why, for example, don't you vote for Rapscallion and make your case against him or against whoever you prefer? He would have only your vote on, no real risk for the scum-dogpile you seem to fear so much.

 

Hmm, well, if Rapscallion is scum - and I'll get to that in a second - then I don't think he's a power scum (i.e. skilled enough in misdirection to twist a vote). So, if I want to look further down the line, I'd to take a look at those who could potentially cause massive problems if they were scum. Whilst lynching a scum today is a priority, allowing negatively-inclined power players (such as Stojil and Sesc) to stick around is just asking for trouble.*

So, then, here's Rapscallion:

Right, so from the beginning: Rapscallion, pretty early on (post #41), was terribly jumpy. He sniped for me on fairly weak grounds, and then dialed it down very quickly after he was admonished (I suspect by a teammate), although he didn't recind the vote. I would classify this, and his assertion that I should have sacrificed myself in order to help town in some unspecified way (post #53), as a nervous first-time scum with a strong team behind him; not good enough on his own to avoid making mistakes, but with enough info to back down gracefully.

He then dropped out for my interactions with Gambit and Stojil, then returned to proclaim me as actually town (#92) and based his vote on AngelRick on the fact that he tried 'to go subtly against [me]'. This was despite the fact he saw Gambit as scummy. Then, in post #98, he accuses AngelRick of not taking a clear stand, and forgets that he saw Gambit as scum, saying "I just can't formulate anything about him". He proceeds to have a small back-and-forth with AngelRick until he is 'saved by the bell', as it were, by the end of Day one.

After a large break (apparently according to exams, so I'll cut him some slack), he reappears at post #134 with a statement that his posts were fundamentally better than AngelRick's because he didn't post 'fillers'. Whilst true, he didn't post anything else either, and I'd rather have fillers than nothing. After that, he says that the reason for lynching Gambit was 'shitty' - which it wasn't - and that the bandwagon was filled with mafia - which it might be, but he doesn't go on to extrapolate anything from it, so it's pointless.

After accusing AngelRick of not making any induvidual contribution for town - unlike him, of course (post #138) - he disappears from the game until the very end of the day, at which point he makes his vote on AngelRick, (ostensibly) drunk.

More recently, at post #171, he made a nice long post espousing the greatness of (particularly) Stojil and Sesc. With his first read, he claimed Stojil was town without any justifications, then filled out the rest with some fluff on how me and Stojil could be playing a 'terrifying mafia game'. With his second, he noted that Sesc had posted very little content apart from some large, attention drawing, posts near the end of the phases, and yet still classified him as town. He attempted to meta-read Ash (poorly), and then made a reasonable (if short) read on Castiel. Later, in the 'scum' section he insulted me for making solid lynches against not only Gambit, but also (and this is the good bit) AngelRick. Yes; that's right, ladies and gentlemen, he claimed he decided I was scum after I helped lynch the person he'd been gunning against for practically the entire game. How's that for scummy?

He then lumped LochNess and Fontisan in the scum zone with me, Fontisan only on the reasoning that she was seen to be 'defending me'. Similarly, only reasoning he presented for lynching LochNess was some quotes from people he believed to be town.

To sum up: Rapscallion is somewhat of a hypocrite, with a fetish for hindsight and burying his past posts. He began jumpy, and would have stayed that way had he posted more, however the scum team behind him have played strongly. He switches target once the steam on his previous victim runs out, and then lays into them, whilst hoping everyone else ignores his old posts.

Thus, I believe Rapscallion to be scum, yes. And I wouldn't be adverse to having him lynched. However, I hope that people look to others in what I believe to be the scum team (Stojil, Sesc, Rapscallion) to take out the more experienced, powerful, players. I will be holding onto my vote, in the hope it can be better employed on better targets later in the day.

 

AngelRick (5): LochNess, Vesvius, Kensington, Rapscallion, Uncle Stojil

So I put this tally in the spotlight. This tally with me, my supposed scumbuddy Rapscallion, LochNess and dead players, with a 66% chance that people - those agreeing with me that odds are there's scum in there - would place a vote that would hurt my team. Is that what you're saying?

Then our whole scumteam voted first, second and third the same person in a short time in a great display of subtlety. A strong scumteam, you said? Experienced, powerful players, you added? Are you sure?

Also, are you saying we should lynch me because Rapscallion is scummy? Or did I miss where you said I am scummy and why? Loved how his town-read of Castiel was reasonable, by the way. Nice touch.

 

Are you talking about the lynch on LochNess? At this stage in the game, I don't believe you need subtlety. All you need is a few town players to think 'that seems like a reasonable wagon' - and then you've won.

Yes - except that I don't really believe that it's a 66% chance you end up with, particularly with the way that you then go on to highlight LochNess over Rapscallion. What you say has a lot of impact, Stojil, and I think you've been milking it. Like you said, no one's voted for Rapscallion yet, have they?

Oh, and I was planning to do a whole big profile piece on you and Sesc too, but I looked at the Rapscallion piece and thought it'd probably be enough for now. Maybe I'll add something else tomorrow, just for you.

On a separate note: GET POSTING, PEOPLE. Jeez, the last half-a-dozen posts (and indeed a fair amount of the rest of the game) has been me and Stojil having a chat.

 

Yeah, what I say has such an impact. I swing so many people and so many votes.

All the people I wanted dead are dea... wait. But... I mean, it's me that started both successful lynch-wag... ugh... no, that's not right, either.

Subtlety in a mafia endgame? Not needed.

Lynch LochNess and then my scumteam and I have won? Yes, Eido would call the game immediately if that was the case, 'cause nothing, nothing at all, could stop it, like I've been saying for a while, now.

The Rapscallion piece should be enough to lynch me... you're right.

Yep, this post is entirely devoid of sarcasm. It's because your post was full of true stuff and honest thoughts.

/super-douche mode off

 

Huh. How long has that been stuck on for?

 

The super-douche mode? Only last post.

The douche mode? Only the post before the last.

It maybe made some sporadic appearance before, but nothing serious.

 

You should get that diagnosed, man. I hope it's not contagious, or I might start acting like a dick too.

 

/me sighs

At least I admit it, dude. I'm sorry you're in denial.

 

Well, as much as I like this brand new Personal Messaging service that DLP is offering, I do hope someone else posts something soon. I don't want to actually have to talk to you, ugh.

 

Rule 11.

Rule 12.

Carry on, once you've re-read those. This goes to everyone.