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Cold Days

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Joschneide, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    People keep saying iron would be the easy way to do it but while it would work on her there are two very big problems with that. First where would he get it? Its like nuclear waste to the Fae of all kinds so I deeply doubt absolutely any of them are going to have it just laying around and Mab isnt going to let him go skipping off out of Winter to go and find it.

    Second even assuming he did get it I'd be very surprised if Mab let him use it, even threatening them with it is nearly an automatic death sentence and that's when its just against hitmen. The way I see it if he uses it to murder a Fae Queen not only is practically every Fae in Winter going to be howling for his blood but it would make Mab look very weak that the only way she could bump off her daughter is by sending someone to murder her with the Bane and she absolutely cannot afford to seem weak right now. However if she forbids him from using Iron when he goes to kill Maeve and makes Harry do it himself then when he beats her ass no one in either court is going to feel sympathy for her or get pissy over it. Its simple Fae culture, if Maeve was so ridiculously weak that she was killed by a single mortal wizard then she had no business being a Queen in the first place and got exactly what she deserved. Plus it makes Mab look very wise for managing to pick such an incredibly powerful mortal as her Knight as well as being an excellent intimidation factor. Its not a huge secret in Winter that something very odd has been happening with Mab, if any of the Fae were entertaining the notion of trying to take a shot at offing her because of it then showing the masses that she has a new Knight so incredibly powerful that he butchered a Queen on his own would get pretty much any of them to stop and very very seriously reconsider.
     
  2. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Well, Harry does presumably still have access to the knowledge about ways and NN that he got from Lea in Changes. That basically means he could easily acquire it so long as Mab was not actively fighting him in this. Ill address that possibility below

    Maybe, but I am less sure of this. One of the reasons the queens use mortals as knights is specifically to get around the limitations brought on by their fae natures. Knights can lie when the queens cannot. Knights can kill anyone while the queens are limited. Knights have full mortal free will while the queens do not. I could well see that being able to use iron would fall in among the accepted advantages of knights, especially among the side of winter who seems more harsh than summer. Maybe Mab might forbid it if he wants Harry to kill Maeve using magical power/winter power/soulfire as a demonstration of his worth as a wizard, but I don't really buy the idea that a mortal killing with iron is so utterly abhorrent given that no one complained when he killed Aurora with it. Let alone the fact that when Harry and Mab first met, Harry threatened MAB with an iron nail, and Mab was only impressed by his cleverness.

    However even if Mab does forbid iron, I still have trouble with Harry having any real difficulty, given the powerfull boosts Harry has received in recent books. The simple fact remains that Aurora was shown to be pathetic, so it would not make much sense for Maeve to be insanely powerfull without some artificial boosts. I will say that if she has found some outside way of boosting her power, it would atleast explain why Mab wants her dead (if she is becoming a threat), while making Maeve a credible threat without retconning Aurora who was Maeves equal.
     
  3. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    Can't see shit, cap'n !!
     
  4. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    Oh, sure. I never said it would be easy, just that there is a clear and relatively straightforward way to go about killing a fae, whether it be a Queen or a wildfae. But something like a mantle, or a concept, things that Butcher has put a lot of emphasis on being magically powerful but not really sentient beings... You wouldn't even know where to begin with something like that.
     
  5. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I could be wrong but I honestly think she would, she knows he was completely willing to blow his brains out to try and get away from her before and now she's spent every single morning for months trying to murder him in ways ranging from semi effective to cartoonish on top of that. Given that and what she already knows of his personality at best she might not actively try and stop him but completely lift the restrictions on any of the Ways from Winter so he gets continuously harassed and attacked by all manner of beastie every single time he tries to go somewhere.


    As far as I know no one actually knew how he offed Aurora besides the Queens and as for the nail thing he didn't threaten her with it. He had a hunch and he rolled it across the desk at her to test his theory, she didn't do anything about it because it never even had serious malicious intent behind it much less the capacity to harm her and she liked that he was that quick on the uptake.

    Also I never said that Maeve was insanely powerful compared to Harry, compared to an average run of the mill Fae though? She very much is. I also didn't say it would a Herculian challenge for Harry either but him going mano e mano with her and bitch slapping her down makes Harry and Mab come across as far far more powerful and in control than murder with poison that damages Fae on every last single level possible.

    As for Aurora while others can and do have different interpretations I always saw her death as not simply her being weak but a combination of three things:
    A. She was crazier than a sack full of wet cats. Intelligently bringing her power to bear and thinking shit through weren't something she was having a real easy time with at the moment.
    B. She was silly arrogant, she didn't take Harry as anywhere even near a credible enough threat as she should have.
    C. The method Harry used to off her was completely and utterly insane and not something she'd ever once vaguely considered having to deal with.
    All in all to me it added up to Aurora never once taking her opponent seriously and paying the price for it when she got caught completely off guard. Just my opinion though.

    Menace Edit:
    I figure an Unwraveling would do the trick pretty easy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  6. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    Doubt it. From what we were told that's more for transformations and enchantments than anything else. It's stupid powerful when it comes to those things, sure, but the immortals I'm talking about don't fall into either of those categories. And from what I remember you have to actually physically touch the cloth to the enchanted/transformed object or being, and if you're going after something intangible, you're probably out of luck.
     
  7. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Wait until the power of the Mantle is in the Stone Table and then use the Unwraveling on the table.
     
  8. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    ... I wasn't talking about the mantle of Knight or Queen specifically, just concepts like that in general. And besides, it's not even a guarantee that that would work- not like iron on a fae, at least. Also, you're assuming the Mothers would give Harry an Unraveling to wipe out a key mantle of either of the two seasons in the first place, which is pretty damn unlikely.
     
  9. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Putting an Unravelling on the table strikes me as a very bad idea. That's assuming it holds power over it, that is. Also, the Mantles are intangible, so getting it 'on' the table might prove troublesome.

    You're also assuming that Dresden would be capable of getting his hands on such an item in the first place.
     
  10. Orm Embar

    Orm Embar Auror

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  11. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I get what Menace is saying, basically...
    He was hoping/expecting that Dresden would do away with something that is considered to be not just immortal but a constant -- the Queens can die and are replaced every so often (this has already happened), but what if the position of Queen itself "died" and ceased to exist? That's on another level from killing an immortal being, however you want to define it.

    That said, I'm finding it hard to be disappointed by the choice because I wasn't aware of the initial spoiler until now anyway. My hopes weren't up.

    Though I do wonder...
    What else is going to be in play here. Maeve is a badass, sure, but Harry just took out the entirety of the Red Court two books prior to this. I doubt Maeve could have done that herself, not without all of Winter behind her (and it won't all be behind here I suspect, given that Mab seems to be taking out the hit on her). Butcher doesn't seem the type to go back to a Summer Knight level of danger and intrigue, so I'm guessing there'll be something else at play to complicate matters significantly. I'm really excited to see what it is.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 AM ----------

    Ah ha! And one of my new favorite characters makes an appearance.
     
  12. Orm Embar

    Orm Embar Auror

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    He's intriguing, yes, but the number of pop culture jokes in these chapters alone is worrisome.
     
  13. Bukay

    Bukay Professor DLP Supporter

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    Seconded, I wouldn't mind if he were to stay for a long time. This book just gets better and better.

    A sarcastic orderly/sidekick - that just screams classic. Think no further than Archimedes from The Sword in the Stone or rather Death's Albert from Discworld - the second one was a powerful wizard. The difference is, Sith can hold his own and most likely, outside of Arctis Tor, is the most dangerous being in a room.

    Speaking of which - I think I'm going to watch The Sword in the Stone once more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  14. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    God damn it. I was going to use the Cat Sith. >_>
     
  15. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Seems my theory is holding up thus far.

    How do you imagine it'll go when Harry introduces Maggie and her surogate parents to his changeling daughter? xD
     
  16. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    So I listened to the podcast Butcher did (link under the chapter postings). Seems going after Maeve won't be the only problem Harry has - he's been away for over a year, plus 77 days, Molly is still 'off' and Demonreach is apparently in danger of literally blowing up.

    Of course, Harry couldn't have just one insurmountable problem to deal with.
     
  17. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Obviously not. :D
     
  18. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

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    Two things:

    Firstly, killing off Maeve generates an immense imbalance between the courts. People have commented that Harry's progeny might just become the new Winter Lady, but since half-fae babies do not mature in a matter of months (since the Winter Lady lived into her teens before she decided between becoming fae or human), I just can't see Mab leaving the position open for so long. It doesn't really make sense from a tactical point of view.

    The counter-point to that is that this may be some sort of gambit. Maybe Mab is engendering that imbalance, and an appearance of weakness, in order to entice the others -- summer, the black council, etc -- into attacking. She could have all kinds of surprises planned, especially Dresden. (Perhaps she's somehow able to use his ability against the outsiders for her benefit?)

    Secondly, a lot of people are attributing the genocide of the Red Court entirely to Harry, and subsequently greatly exaggerating his power. Personally, his 'power', i think, was tangential to act: after all, all he did was point a weapon locked and loaded by the Red court right back at them. Yes, his power allowed him to survive the onslaught, but let's not forget all the beings that he was assisted by, esp. 'God' him/her-self.

    Anyway, despite a rather weak second chapter, this is already giving me the jitters (of anticipation).
     
  19. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    @ The Fine Balance. Where does it say she waited till her teens to choose? Or that she's half-mortal to begin with? Is there any Word of God on that? 0.o

    I always assumed she just went with the lolita look for the hell of it.

    As for the balance. Aurora's still reasonably new at her job and Harry would kick Fix's ass if they ever came to blows.
     
  20. Bill Door

    Bill Door The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    Eh, Aurora doesn't really have much of a job, what with her being dead and all. And no matter how experienced she is, any summer lady would still tip the balance without a winter counterpart.
     
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