When Bast was trying to explain how bad the Cthaeh is, he references "the creation of the Nameless"

at first I assumed that the Nameless were some kind of monsters, but perhaps it could be substances (like copper).

 

If you can shape a ring from a substance, you could create tools or keys to suit your need?
Lord of shadows told the one whose name he has, you are nothing but a tool in my hand.

Removing a name has got to be as bad as hiding or locking away a name, like with the moon.
If copper is name less, would that make it like an anti magic material, similar to Nth metal in the DC universe.
Everything has a name, even the moon though locked away, so could there be living Nameless creatures? Material I could accept as name less, but nothing sentient definitly just monsters at best.

Creating nameless would be specifically to oppose namers, if they had no names, then the old masters would have not power over them.

If finding the name for substance is easier than beings, it might mean its easier to create nameless material.

Kvothe has a nameless ring, these rings are signs of naming skill, so how can it be name less, so it seems to be an extra special weapon.

Tehlu killed a demon, it was the 3rd or 4th person that would not cross. It made a sound like quenching iron and smelled like burning leather/hair/flowers. It sounds like that scaeling that was seen in the inn. Bast said that the oracle of the forbidden tree was the cause of the Scaendyne. There are apparently no demons, just those of the Faen realms. THe fae are in courts, I bet these are the evil ones of legend.

Elodin named that book that was hidden, does any one want to bet it is one of the Yll story knots.

Lorren has a collection of Arlinden's songs in the archives, did he get a chance to send his copy of songs to the university?

The broken tree part of his name is said to be prophetic, so which tree became broken, the sword tree or the tree of ctheath?

Iax has a folding house=the land of fae, a iron box=stealing the moon, but he was also said to have a green stone flute capable of summoning anything, so the fae courts, the chandrian anything.

Greystones lead to faerinel, which is a crossroads of the fae realm.

The final rank of the arcanum, is "listener", like the phrase," see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil".

Has any one ever read the short story Patrick wrote, "The Road to Levinshir", ?

The trifoil compass, height of artificer, due to the limitations of the art, has to be special. A compass mustt be useful every where, so it must be able to link to the three points. Gold, platnimum and cobalt, they must have the greatest length of disance that can be detected, we are talking thousands of miles. These points have to be constant, or the mapping technique would be useless. Thee location ased for will be important.

 

He has shown six types of magic so far: naming, sympathy, symbology, alchemy, grammarie and glamorie. He said he whispered a seventh and has an eighth yet to come.

There has been mentions of those able to use songs to heal, and denna spoke of writing affecting reality. The magic denna spoke of sounds like possibly a form of shaping.
I think naming and shaping are the same makic, it is just the philosophy of use, shaping is the more advanced and dangerous level of names.

I wonder if the scaendyne or nameless, if they are creatures, are harmed by amber? a ring of amber are often mentioned with demons, they are the best choice.

 

What's symbology? Do you mean the artificing runes?

 

Does any one think it's strange there are only 194 runes for the Sygaldry magic. Sure they can be combined, but still you think there would be more. I believe this and sympathy were magic styles created by the ancient namers, like how they created glamorie and grammerie for the faen. I wonder in his travels, he discovers knowledge of additional runes. They could be a form of true names and their power. Runes are not written, they are shaped. THey are not words, but more like concepts and ideas.
True names have to be percieved by a namer listerning properly, so I wonder if yll knots allow true names to be stored as they are not seen with the eye they must be seen by the mind's eye.
Tehlu was made into an angel with others, but at no point was it claimed that tehlu, had the power over names. SO I believed they were shaped. We guess angles are enemies of chandrin, so I wonder if they are the so called singers, they were said to have songs of power. THey were claimed to have "Wings of fire and shadow. Wings of iron and glass. Wings of stone and blood." All but two of these are naming rings, so I wonder if it possible to call upon shadow and glass in such a manner.
THe yll story knot store room is said to contain hundreds of reels of ancient literature. Since it was there before the written word, its likely due to difficulty of the art, most story knots are based on information that are linked to event that occured before there was an alternative storage medium. SO the language is a contemporary of the creation war or soon after. I wonder if denna will be involved in the translating?
Does anyone else think that we will see flying or intelligent dragons at some point, or what truly sparked the stories? The think is the cow dragon seen was clearly shaped, so they might have built a better version.

 

Sympathy and sygaldry were both invented at the University, probably long after the ancient Namers-though it was back when Namers were more powerful. Something in the books makes me think it was long after the Creation War though. What makes you think glammourie and grammarie were made by the Namers?

It seemed pretty clear to me that they were Shaped by Aleph. Yes, I also think they are the Singers.

 

Glammourie has always traditionally been a trait of the Fae, although some skilled mortal practitioners of magic have learned to wield it. Grammarye, or bespelling, is practiced by witches, wizards, witch doctors, shamans, sorcerers and necromancers, etc. Again, traditionally this was a magic that the Fae were born with, and their skills were far superior than those of any mortal, who had to struggle to piece together and learn the work of the magic working mortals who went before, and then attempt to build upon that knowledge.

Shapers make great progenitors for Fae because they took things that were whole and unique and shaped them into something else, rather than creating completely original works. This has also traditionally been an attribute of the Fae - they can alter( leaves into coins, men into stone), destroy or decay, or craft an illusion of things, but they cannot create original things as man does.

Rothfuss is, I think, doing something kind of cool. He's offering an alternative to the long debate over whether the Fae were originally fallen angels or soulless demons. He's saying instead, way back in the mists of time, the first people and their brothers disagreed about the nature of progress, and fought, and the two sides or branches maybe diverged in radically different ways. And maybe even that those who value progress for progress sake, without ever considering the cost, could be considered soulless.
But I may be over thinking- no real way to exactly confirm what PR is thinking, is there? I do like that he's bold enough to go for a new origin theory though!

 

Just heard a theory that was new to me, but seems to fit with what we know or suspect.

"I do believe that Lorren, just as Skarpi, is an Amyr. When Kvothe is allowed entrance to the university, Lorren tells the Chancellor that he is headed to Tarbean for business. I think that he is there to help Skarpi get out of whatever situation he is in." ~ Some dude on Facebook

I like this theory.

 

I've never seen Lorren's Tarbean trip linked into the Lorren Amyr idea, but I've always liked that theory anyway.

Early on in NotW, back when Kvothe only had access to Tomes, he tried to research the Chandrian and the Amyr by making requests to the scrivs. After a few such inquiries, Lorren took him aside personally to tell him that he should do something else. His excuse was casual enough - "I was doing blah blah blah when I happened to see your requests in the ledger books," but it still sticks out to me.

In WMF, Kvothe finds an original manuscript of a medical text from the Duke of Gibea. He shows Simmon proof that its author was probably an Amyr. While he's still talking about the idea of secret Amyr to Simmon, Lorren shows up and suspends him for talking with students at other tables. Rothfuss makes a show of Lorren reminding Kvothe to hand over the book before he leaves.

In-story, that one can be explained away as coincidence. Out of story, it feels like an artfully crafted link that just uses the misconduct to set up the scene.

 

There are all these ideas that the seven are hunting kvothe, and they sent the skin walker and scaeling to find him. On the fan fic story on this site, the author mentions how the possesed mercenary, his sword was rusted. Before he was shown as smart and capable, no one like that would carry a rusted sword. Metal rusting is a sign of one of the seven.

Skarpi having friends with the church, would make more sense with the amyr and their supposed link, they were part of that church remember.

I was wondering, the Chaendrin are they always on the move, or do they have some kind of stronghold where they hide from enemies, and keep their treasure, tropies and keepsakes?
Lord Haliax I bet keeps things like the Vase from the farm, why not by right of conquest and origin it belongs to him. Also, I see it filled with treasures taken from mortals and their enemies. A library contain lost, missing and forgotten work, those ever burning lamps, magical items, from people they killed over the millenium.
For some reason one day in the future, Kvothe appears before the admission board and presents them with such treasure, then walk away, or him getting the title of being a master arcanist.

Hespe told a story of those folding doors, what if there are other made up realms, fae was to be a master piece, but who wouldn't want a world of their own. Could these sealed doors of stone lead to different worlds?

 

Another theory I wish I could take credit for:

I like it, although some of the timing is off, but as she says, that may be intentional.

 

We can all agree Iax stole the moon correct. This was the last straw, and made the Creation War. Lanre was turned into Haliax towards the end of the war. So it seems to me that the similarity of his new name is no coincidence, so he was corrupted, infected or influenced in some manner by Iax or his power.

 

Damn, I think that post just spoiled the mid-book climax of The Doors of Stone. So basically Kvothe, in a moment of tragic heroism and empathetic horror at the fate of Lanre, opens the doors and gives Haliax a rest. The frame story is him hiding out from the Amyr who want to use him to bind the fae away again.

It also explains how Kvothe is Bast's teacher, since the Fae would have been released into the human world along with creatures like the Scrael. I guess Kvothe is badass enough that if you can pick your teacher, you pick him.

 

In the story, Lanre somehow joined with the very enemy he fought and killed his love. What if going after after them, the ancient enemy is released or awakened once again?

 

Lyra could call Lanre back because she was one of the greatest namers and knew Lanre so well that he heard her call/command even past the Doors of death. When Lyra died, which we are led to believe was from a long, wasting illness, Lanre, a warrior, did not have the powers to call her back - but Iax did. And Lanre held Iax responsible for her death. So he sought out and defeated Lane, somehow merged with him, and I believe called Lyra back - but were unable to return her to the human world, because too much time had passed since her death. So Iax, now Haliax, called her spirit, and placed it in a fae body - I suspect she may be Felurian. And I think this is what the fae are - former changers or creatures who have died (passed the Doors of death and live beyond the doors of stone),and brought back into transformed bodies. Thus, like Haliax, they would be immortal, having cheated death. But the bodies they wear are merely shells housing the re-animated spirit, they have no need for working internal organs.

I still believe the armor Lanre made from the beast of Drassen Tor may well have caused Lyra's death, as he claimed he was ultimately responsible for it, but it came about through Iax's treachery - and his making and wearing the armor is the only information of note we are given about events between that battle and Lyra's sickness and death.

 

The four doors of the mind are-sleep, forgetting, madness and death. THere are four corners to the world, is there a link?

 

I'm 200 or so pages in on Wise Man's Fear, and I'm getting irritated at how much time is being wasted with wizard school bullshit. The story so far is mired in the same conflicts that Kvothe was dealing with in the first book, and no headway has been made on any of them. The scale has increased, but the problems have remained the same. Will these things get resolved, or am I just going to have to wait for Kvothe to get expelled before the story gets back on track?

 

"Wizard school bullshit" is quite entertaining compared to sex-God Kvothe diddling Felurian.

But yeah, you're close. Keep at it for a little more. There's plenty of awesome up ahead. Just ignore Rothfuss' daydreams and fantasies with Felurian and man-mothers. That is all.

 

I don't know what you're talking about, man-mothers was hilarious.

As for Felurian, none of that segment surprised me except for the oracle tree. In NotW, that book about dragons was mentioned something around 15 times, so obviously Kvothe was going to fight one, and it was probably going to happen towards the end of the book. The same thing happened in this one with Felurian; she kept getting mentioned, so it wasn't a surprise to me when she appeared, or that Kvothe was going to lose his v-card to a thousand year-old, fairy, sex goddess.

As I mentioned, I hated the first two hundred or so pages since they were pointless retreading of familiar ground for no obvious gain. Most everything past that point I enjoyed. Each segment was essentially a one-act play, with its own ebb and flow, and I loved it. I don't think they were fit together very well at all. Rothfuss is not the best when it comes to pacing, and includes a lot filler for no readily apparent reason. I'm really hoping that he's using these seemingly pointless scenes as a foundation for the third book, any sequels, and any spin-offs that include these characters; a political thriller set in Vintas between Bredon and the Maer, a return of Hespe, Deden, and Marten, or something more about the Adem. It'd be a shame if Rothfuss spent so much time introducing all these characters and building their world, but didn't do anything with them.

For someone who's supposed to be incredibly clever, Kvothe comes off as being incredibly stupid instead. Missing the connection between his mom and Meluan, blowing up at her for her hatred of the Ruh causing him to lose almost everything he'd gained, consistently asking the exact same questions to people even though he's already received an answer (and pissing them off in the process), and so much more. Not just in this book, but in the first one as well. It's why I like Elodin so much, he's one of the very few characters who can actually walk circles around Kvothe, and refuses to deal with his bullshit.

Also, why the fuck didn't Kvothe focus on finding out more about the Chandrians? As much as I enjoyed all the one-act plays, they're essentially side-quests to the nominal main story of Kvothe finding the Seven (plus one) and killing them. The one thing in this book that advanced that part of the narrative was learning their names, and those were handed to him on a silver platter by accident. I suppose that it could be argued that Kvothe spent this book focusing on increasing his abilities so that he could actually kill them, but I believe that there could have been a way for him to do so while also hunting them down.

Despite my dislike of certain elements, I did enjoy the novel, and I'm looking forward to the third book, as well as anything else that Rothfuss (hopefully) writes in this universe. It was good, but not great; better than the first one at times, while being worse at others. I hope Kvothe grows the fuck up and doesn't lose too many of his friends and acquaintances in book three. And that Denna suffers an appropriately horrifying and bloody death.

 

The filler is where he lays down hints and pieces of the main story line and world building. When I was reading the books, I was forever flipping back to see the parts already mentioned. He makes it so the best way to read his books, are to have them all in front of you at the same time, not as they come out.