I don't know why this thread doesn't exist yet but after asking and receiving some favorable replies to start it, here it is.

Now basically this thread is for discussing anything Malazan related and for getting some feedback on things you don't understand(Am assuming only a few of us have finished the whole series) or things that you would like some clarifications on.

Also stuff like scenes that stood out for you as you read through the series, memorable characters and your take on them. You know just basically discuss the series as fans.

Personally I am beginning my re-read through of the series from next week. As you have obviously discovered the series lends itself to it since things you never understood in the first make complete sense in the fifth book.

So where do we start off from here? Perhaps an easy topic. Which character so far do you find to be the most amusing?

For me overall its, Iskaral Pust. I just love his crazy little quirk and he is the one character I really looked forward to reading and seeing other character's reaction to him.

Also whats you're take on Dead house gates? The chain of dogs, and the ending in particular, really interested to know hear your thoughts on that.

Also how did you handle Felisin? Did you understand where she was coming from? Were you annoyed with her to the point where you just wished she were dead?

Personally, I understood where she was coming from and I understood that her poisonous character stemmed from the shit she had gone through and she was using it as a shield.( I think we should also decide where we should use spoilers and where we shouldn't)

Cheers and thanks to anyone who participates, it just feels right discussing this at DLP instead of joining an entirely new forum.

 

Most amusing character? Possibly biased, given that I've only just finished reading it, but Bugg and Tehol in 'Midnight Tides' are hilarious. Much as I've enjoyed the series so far, I never thought I'd be grinning quite so much during one of them. It's not like there's no humour at all (I'm also fond of Pearl and Yil, primarily from 'House of Chains'), but the scenes with those two are just outstanding, and are possibly why I rank MT as the second best of the series so far.

Deadhouse Gates is astonishing. It's one of the bleakest, saddest books I've read (seriously, I don't think a single character gets anything even close to a happy ending), but it feels so real. I know the fantasy genre can be a pretty miserable place to be right now - ASOIAF, of course, but also Joe Abercrombie's books, for instance, and even the Kingkiller series to an extent - but it rarely reaches the level of tragedy. It never feels like Erikson's torturing his characters, and it's all just utterly, horribly right. It's the sort of story that you could actually believe happened in real life somewhere. On a more general note, I think it benefits from following Gardens of the Moon, which while a perfectly good book is basically just a grimdark fantasy novel with no concessions to easing you in. You have to concentrate to work out who's who and what they're doing, but once you get into it it's little different to 90% of the stuff on the market. Then you read Deadhouse Gates and it's just so different.

Felisin gets much the same reaction. She's an utter bitch, but it's born out of tragedy, so I really did feel sorry for her.

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I found her far less interesting in House of Chains, where she's mostly just a puppet for the Goddess. The scene where she realises her brother is still alive is heartbreaking though.

More generally, I do think the worldbuilding is the best thing about the series. Erikson's background is in anthropology, and it shows. There's real depth to the backstory, and the different races, although it does focus more in that regard on the none human races (I guess because that's more interesting. The humans are...well, human, and barring a few different cultural quirks aren't that different). It also allows him to go a little wild in other regards, and you buy it much more readily. I can't think of another series where I'd so easily accept a species that are basically velociraptors with swords for hands!

Moving onto The Bonehunters once I've finished Red Country, and really looking forward to it.

 

We don't have any Malazan threads? Strange...

Malazan Book of the Fallen is still the best series I've ever read. I've only read the entire thing once, though. I've been planning on a re-read for quite a while, but I never seem to have the time. If you haven't heard of the series, I highly recommend you to check it out.

I'd like to talk about all the world theories I had when I was reading the series, but let's face it, it's way too complicated, and it's been years. Stuff was awesome and epic.
...Man, I really need that re-read.

Most amusing character? Probably Quick Ben. I also quite enjoyed Karsa Orlong, especially in his younger days. And anything about Anomander Rake was fucking awesome, of course.

Insanely epic worldbuilding aside, I think that one of the best things about the series is that almost all the characters and different perspectives are interesting. You never get tired of the shifting perspective. The only exceptions to this are Felisin, Tavore and Heboric. Those are literally the only characters I don't like.

 

Yep, Tehol and Bug are my number two, especially Tehol's randomness where you sort of expect a method to the randomness but there isn't at all and I think that honestly makes him more interesting(Question is Midnight tides where you get a very significant reveal about them?)

As for Pearl and Lostara, I didn't see there relationship as being anything special. Opinions I guess.

Completely agree with you on deadhouse gates, especially the march of the chain of dogs it was one of those moments where I felt everything and I remember putting it down after the battle when they were crossing the river, that was just wow!. I am looking forward to re reading it again and now that I think about it I can't remember much about Coltaine.

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Also I confess I cried when Squint was forced to kill coltaine, I felt for him because even though everyone else thought he did the right thing, he was still the guy who had to kill him.

The world building, yes the world of the Malazan is so rich and full you actually don't find it difficult to envision such a world existing. I think what makes it so absolutely rich is the history in the world. You get a sense of a fully realized world as you learn more about the Jaghuts and T'lan Imass wars, how those wars started and ended and in the process led to the creation of some of the things in the present, unraveling the history of the world is what makes another read through so appealing since now you have all the pieces and know where they fit and you can now see the tapestry come alive.

Speaking of which, of all the races you've come across so far which ones did you like the most?

For me hands down it has to be the Jaghut. Everything about them is awesome.

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That an entire species would curse themselves with immortality just to be able to stop the assumed threat of the jaghut and that for all their hate(the T'lan Imass) the Jaghut really just didn't give a damn. That just makes them awesome for me.

I would say just read them in their publishing order because I personally did that and I don't think I was any worse for it but its true the continuation of the books does not follow the publishing order, for example book 3 directly continues on from book 1.

So if that's how you want to read it then read;
Gardens of the moon
Memories of Ice
Deadhouse gates
House of chains
Midnight tides

If someone else could offer more input on this, it would be awesome.

 

This is a chronological order of the series:

• Night of Knives (1154)
• Blood Follows (c. 1154)
• The Lees of Laughter's End (c. 1154)
• The Healthy Dead (c. 1158)
• Midnight Tides (1161, with 1 chapter occurring in 1159 and another occurring in the time of The Elder Gods)*
• Gardens of the Moon (1163)*
• Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice (1163–64, these two novels occur simultaneously)*
• House of Chains (Starts a couple of years before Deadhouse Gates and goes to somewhat after.)*
• The Bonehunters (1164–65)*
• Return of the Crimson Guard (c. 1165, just after The Bonehunters)
• Reaper's Gale (c. 1165 or 1166)*
• Toll the Hounds and Dust of Dreams (takes place simultaneously)*
• Stonewielder (estimated to start roughly half way through Dust of Dreams or maybe a little later)
• The Crippled God*

The ones with * next to them are the main entries in the series, while the others are side stories written by one of Erikson's friends (they originally created the Malazan world for their D&D campaigns, then tried to develop it into a film script, but it never got anywhere). I haven't read any of the side stories yet, although I believe 'Return of the Crimson Guard' is important to the world as a whole.

Publication order is Gardens of the Moon, Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, House of Chains, Midnight Tides, The Bonehunters, Reaper's Gale, Toll the Hounds, Dust of Dreams, The Crippled God.

As to whether it's better to read them in publication or chronological order...not sure. Midnight Tides, for instance, is the first story to take place, although the fifth one to be written, and one of the main characters is a side character from the fourth book. You'd probably get more tension from MT then, if you weren't already aware that he's alive and well several years later, but equally you wouldn't get the sense of curiousity about him from the fourth book. To use another example, the plot of Deadhouse Gates (book 2) is followed up in House of Chains (book 4), so it might make sense to jump straight to that so you can finish that plot line. On the other hand, that would epicly spoil book 3, Memories of Ice...

Personally, I think I'd say publication order is the best, at least the first time you read them.

Edit for Quick Ben's post:

Spoiler

If by that you mean that Bugg = Mael, then yes it is. Which leads to one of my favourite moments of the series: "I'll be with you shortly. I'm going to beat a god senseless." :awesome

 

You're absolutely correct with that. I'd say that to get the most enjoyment out of the side stories, you need to have read the relevant main books first.

 

Yes you do need to re-read and if it helps I'm also going to start re-reading too.

For me Quick falls under the category of the most badass character in the series, especially when he is paired off with Kalam(second most bad ass character, I was literally cheering when he decimated the claws). Looking back, knowing what I know about the Tiste andii what they did in Gardens of the moon is very very impressive.

I never truly liked Rake, sure he was awesome but there was something about him that I just didn't like maybe its because he was one of the very few people who seemed to have a hand in every major event in the series. I don't know but he was an awesome guy.

Oh and as a side note you should check out Forge of darkness. Its basically a prequel series that deals with the Tiste andii and what went down with Mother Dark, draconus and Rake and his brothers.

 

I tried reading Gardens, but for some reason I was so overwhelmed.

 

I read the first book in the series awhile back (after seeing it recommended here) and it was truly boring. It read like somebodies D&D campaign, and that's probably because it was. The character names were awful, and the plot pretty generic, and the parts that weren't generic, were just dumb. There wasn't much I actually liked about it.

 

@Anarchy the first book is the most hard to get into for most people. After that it gets awesome. I suggest you try to read the next novel.

Reading Reapers Gale now. Tehlo and Bugg are fucking awesome. Quick Ben is my most favorite character ever. He's just that epic.

The series needs more Ganoes Paran.

 

For shame no one has mentioned Kruppe. Easily one of the best characters, and the mule duel is still something that makes me chuckle. Shadowthrone deserves a mention as well. Pust just apes his master.

for the best race i'm torn between the Jaghut and the Andii.

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And I found Hood and his army in the final two books to be the best characters out of everyone in the books, all the more so after reading Forge of Darkness.

Rake to be honest was someone that I only really began to enjoy as a character in book 8 and my rereads. The guy does come off as being too involved in a world where most of the powers are too terrified of attracting other gods/ ascendants to do much, but Rake seems to spend most of his time doing just that. Still you gave to give the guy props for spending 300000 years plotting simply for the sake of saving his people.

All the more so when you consider what the majority of the other Dragon Soletaken usually end up doing. Ruin also stood out, although I get the feeling that he was there more so to show just how different Rake was from all the other Soletaken. Andarist was just depressing and after Forge of Darkness I understand why, but he was still pretty underwhelming considering who and what his brothers were.

Out of all the Andii though. I liked Nimander the most. He spent most of the time coming across as a complete and utter pussy, and then at the end of Hounds it turns out that he just has shitty self-esteem and he's the most badass of all of Rake's children. Still I never really got the sense of him being a major powerhouse despite being the son of Rake and Envy and thousands of years old. That said, a lot of stuff in the series is understated and the fact that he's the one who becomes Lord of the Andii is pretty telling about what he will end up becoming. Still I felt his development arc was well done.

Orfantal was well done in Forge of Darkness as well, considering how miserable and tense things are in the book, his chapters were a nice change, a throw back to the early Wheel of time/ Hobbit/ LotR ect. While at the same time having just as if not more hints of future tragedy than the other perspectives.
I hated Sand with a passion though. Easily the character I despised the most.

Paran was cool too, but by the end there were plenty of other characters to make up for his absence and I didn't miss him too much, (he was amazing in Bone hunters and the Crippled God though). Corkus/ Cutter was interesting in more of a character development sense, and i really enjoyed the romance part of his story.

I enjoyed the latter books a lot more than the earlier ones, simply because by that point things had fallen into place and there was more of a sense of the various side plots connecting up to the main one.

As far as reading order, the new one Forge of Darkness is the prequel to all of them, but it is set 300000 years before the main series and as a result there are no humans. And the cast are mostly the future deities and Ascendants. So while it gives background I don't thinks it's worth reading until you find out the motivations of the characters in the main series. So yeah, I suggest publishing order, with Return being the only side story that needs to be read.

 

That's Malazan in a nutshell, really, and a major part of whether you'll like the series or not. It was a very definite decision by Erikson - you'll get thrown straight into the deep end of a dark and epic high fantasy without and hand-holding at all. A massive amount of strange terms, a complex and unknown world. He doesn't spoon-feed you at all, and you have to really think and wonder about all the stuff and make connections in your head. If you like that, great. But I can see many readers being very overwhelmed. It's why it took so long to find a publisher - everyone said the book was too ambitious.

 

I shudder every time I see those damn buzzwords. What's next, you're going to call someone a casual?

Anyway. I've heard a bit about this series, but I never really made it a priority. Can't say this talk of intentionally confusing the reader as some kind of hazing process (or at least that's what you made it sound like) endears me to it. And if it's like A Song of Ice and Fire where almost all the characters I actually like end up dead or marginalized (save for a scant handful) leaving me with characters I actively want to die from an ice zombie invasion, I think I'll just pass.

 

Haha no, those are the words Erikson himself used when he talked about the way he wrote the books. It's not hazing of any kind, more like a ton of unknown and mystery. Instead of explaining stuff to you right off the bat, you live the world and increasingly understand more and more of its nature.

While there is character death, pretty much everyone is more awesome than from Song of Ice and Fire. And the deaths aren't random fuck-you's from the author, they're rather fitting.

 

Well that sounds fine if that's really the case. Maybe I'll bump this up my list then.

 

Kruppe is an awesome character(Him standing up to Brood and his hammer was just all kinds of badass) but I find him to be exhausting, especially the book where he was the narrator. I still think his amusing but I still would go with Pust, tehol then Kruppe.

Yep, Toll the hounds was awesome because of this plus we also got to know just how much it cost to wield Draginpur.

How about Rake's second hand in Toll the hounds, the one who went toe to toe with Kallor(who is also awesome by the way) and actually managed to delay him.

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Speaking of Kallor, since you seem to have read the other side stories. Is Kallor ever proved right or wrong about tatersail/silverfox?

Personally I hated the entire Paran family. Tavore and ganoes in particular(Felisin I at least understood where her vitriol came from). Crokus, I think is one of the more underrated characters in the series but I still love him maybe its because he was our first fresh perspective into the world therefore we started to understand the world better.

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There is an interesting theory floating around that in DoD and TCG, everytime Quick rubbed his face he was actually shifting from one soul to another. Thoughts?

 

Meh, it's been a while since I focused on Kruppe tbh and maybe I only remember the highlights. I just finished the Crippled God (again) and i'm reading them backwards this time so the only bit I've read of him recently is when he talks about his daughters.

Spinnock is cool, (that part especially, although the fact that Whiskyjack could hold him off kinda broke Kallor's omg factor for me, badass as he was, the guy was only human at that point).But I always liked the mages better than the soldiers (the warrens made it all so interesting), so that's probably my bias showing through. And that said, I always got the sense that he was the second because Korlat and Orfantal weren't there. Although i'm not sure if Rake would have had a second really, there was Serrit in GotM. But to be honest, by that point I imagine that most of his troops were all so far above grunts and so few in number that he didn't really need a chain of command aside from his Soletaken inner circle.

Still by the Crippled god it sounds as if there are thousands of Andii so maybe I've got the numbers mixed up. Sillian would be a second as well, considering that after Rake he's their other High Mage. So yeah, i'm a little iffy about the chain of command with Rake's Andii.

I enjoyed Gnaoes because he seemed like the typical main character right down to the growing power level in the first couple of books. Felisin I got rather tired of tbh and was kind of happy when the Whirlwind possessed her. Funny that she (whirlwind) turned out to be Onracks first wife though. Tavore, was much the same really, I would have much rather followed the Host than the Bone hunters but whatever, the marines in the Bone hunters were better characters.

Kallor and Silverfox i'm not sure about, bear in mind that Kallor's been carrying that grudge for a long time though, so I suspect that was just his spite showing through to an extent.

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Quick Ben's an interesting one, because there is a character in Forge who rubs his hand over his face all the time and is Draconus' son. which would mean if he is the main soul (likely considering how old and powerful he would be by the time Quick Ben is made, then that's just his habits showing through). He chewed the skin of his fingers too, not sure if that's been mentioned with regards to Quick Ben. Plus it would match up with what Quick says during the CG's prologue.

Still Quick is likely at least several ancient souls, he can use the Andii warren so there is at least someone related to the Andii or Draccy in him and I suspect that it's the older souls who run the show and the others are just there as extra power. I'm not sure about a different soul just because he is fairly constant in character whereas if he shifts a different soul/ personality I would think he would come off as much more unbalanced than he does. Still it's an interesting theory.

Soul shifting is Jaghut in origin though so there might be something to that, beyond the fact that there is a Jhag soul in him.

 

I have some doubts about what I am reading. Now I can only remember this.The scene near the end of Bonehunters where

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Oppon tries mess with the one who stole his power. It ends with the quote "Never mess with mortals". I have no idea what happened here. Can someone explain ?

Also Ganoes is fucking awesome. Particularly the scene where

Spoiler

he goes to the temple of Poliel and fucking kills her

Can't wait for Iskaral Pust and Kruppe to meet. There are so many awesome characters in the series. I really want to see more of Brys fucking Beddict.

Currently reached half of Reaper's Gale.

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The Malazan in Lether. :awesome

 

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Hellian's invasion strategy is brilliant. Also, best Tehol scenes are in this book, imo.

Finally, Orb, Scepter Throne doesn't really list dates in it, but it is set sometime after Toll the Hounds and even possibly after The Crippled God. Could argue about it.

Blood and Blone is set concurrently with Stoneweilder and The Crippled God.