On a similar note, Tywin referred to Jaime as his heir, which is also impossible for members of the Kingsguard. Granted Tywin, would never let Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock, but who would it fall to after Tyrion? Kevan? Tommen?

 

Technically, Tommen is not a Lannister so it would be Cersei. After her would be Kevan and his kids.

Tywin making that claim doesn't bother me because Jaime is his eldest son he is the Mighty Tywin, if need be he could have the White Cloak off Jaime ala Barristan Selmy.

But, the Tyrells have two older sons than Loras so it makes no sense for him to marry especially with his preference for men and being a Kingsguard.

 

He is not relevant yet in the books, and if he is eventually introduced, it is easy enough to still do so. They never said she was going to marry the heir to Highgarden, IIRC. Also, Loras isn't in the Kingsguard as of yet in the show.

Tywin is hoping and working towards Jaime leaving the Kingsguard. And it would go to Cersei after Tyrion, and only go to Tommen if he took the Lannister name, I would think, and was not declared a bastard. Kevan would be after the children of Tywin.

---------- Post automerged at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

Well, Garlan is married, so count him out. Plus Margaery & Loras can clearly tell she is smitten with Loras. Perfectly sensible to condense that, and easier for people to relate to, perhaps: Sansa being incredibly thrilled about marrying her one true love Loras, who we have seen her fangirling over, rather than fantasizing about Willas and imagining what her life would be like. I dunno, I like Willas way more than I should despite him never being shown, but I understand what they were going for there.

 

Episode was amazeballs. Everything about it. Would've liked to have Commander Mormont's deathbed scene, but can't win them all, and him going out like a badass while Sam goes all Kyle Reese with Gilly - COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE, AND LATER WE'LL BANG - was awesome enough! Also fantastic: Theon's confession, the start of a breakdown to end all breakdowns, and that Iwan Rheon blinked and then kabam, Ramsay fucking Bolton just appeared in front of my eyes, was just woah. Also also, Varys for the motherfuckin' win.

And, of course, every moment of that end Dany scene. Expertly revealed, executed, and the rejigged Fire And Blood music continuing into the credits is my favourite score yet. Pew pew pew, off to rewatch!

 

I have to say that the slow pan and the reveal of the torture device was awesome. Even as a book reader Ramsay had ME going for a while.

 

The end scene with Danaerys was awesome, specially the reveal she could speak the native tongue and how she got her loyal army that Selmy was talking about.

Liked the killing of that daughter-fucker which I cant remember the name of. Was awesome.

Lastly, Theons line aobut his real father dying in King's Landing was awesome.

 

Food for thought: Loras Tyrell asked for the honor of bringing the Mountain to justice back in the first book. Ned denied him and gave it to Lord Dondarion and we know how shit went down. So... what if he gave Loras the honor?

 

It's honestly hard to know, Beric Dondarion was the moral heart of the Brotherhood without Banners. Without him they're just a bunch of bitter outlaws perfectly willing to kill anyone they felt wronged them. "Justice" (well, it's better than what came later) came from him and Thoros. I mean, they're still thieves that work backwards to punish people but they payed lip service to justice.

I honestly cannot tell if a young idealistic Loras would uphold those values or if he's succumb to rage, or hell, if he could even control the outlaws in the Brotherhood.

 

I predict a quick death from the Mountain... resulting in a more driven Renley? Would be interesting to see what Renley could have accomplished if he wasn't so busy messing around. He might have even considered joining with Stannis for better odds at taking down the Lannisters and Clegane.

 

Stannis with his and Renly's army fucking scrape Kings Landing. Tyrion's wyldfire tactic only worked because it was over sea - Bronn specifically went over how wyldfire barrages over land didn't work because of human error.

Even if they manage to get some of the wyldfire out over land, Stannis still has the shadow assassin. It's established that it's a one-shot sort of thing which exhausts Melisandre for a while and costs him the child he would have had of her otherwise, but if he doesn't have to spend it on Renly then he just sends it in and kills Joffrey.

Dead king, massive numeric superiority, no Highgarden coming to the Lannister's rescue - Lannisters get fucking owned. Baratheon kingship is preserved.

Of course, this is all assuming Renly joins. I don't think Renly's frequently getting laid or not holds much bearing on deciding whether to cede the throne to Stannis, especially considering he's taken the trouble to raise the forces and declare himself king. If anything (assuming he still gathers the forces and declares himself king, void of any off screen prompting by Loras that may have happened), he's more recalcitrant and determined to become king. The only thing Loras not being there means is Margaery having more time with him to herself (time in canon where she was otherwise sexiled from the tent). Meanwhile, Beric Dondarrion is busy doing whatever the fuck he was doing before he's sent off after the Mountain.

End result: Renly dies with blue balls (or maybe Margaery gets him to pregger her), Loras getting rinsed by the Mountain (if the tourney while Robert was alive is anything to go by), and there is a slightly higher banditry rate around Harrenhall than normal.

EDIT: Well, actually, maybe Highgarden doesn't come to the Lannister's aid, actually, in that case. I mean, if the Mountain killed Loras, the male poster child for the Tyrells, it's possible they could be turned off from supporting the Lannisters, leading to a Stannis victory at Kings Landing. There really are no small changes in ASoIaF, ultimately.

 

I suppose it depends on just how close Renly and Loras were. I could envision a grief-stricken Renly not giving a shit about the crown and accepting Stannis as King, and riding to Kings Landing with his armies, his brother's army and the Tyrells and executing every Lannister he could find. After that, who knows?

Of course, that assumes that Loras is killed by the Mountain and not merely captured as a hostage. He'd keep both the Tyrells and Renly in line, no?

 

The Mountain wouldn't keep him hostage. He'd kill him.

If you wanted to do a divergence fic, that would be a good one. Loras is killed by the mountain. Renly still goes down the way he did, but Stannis takes Kings Landing. He doesn't go bat shit and the 'new' gods are still preserved. He isn't there to aid at the wall. The war becomes a three way between Stannis, Robb and Tywin, with the Tyrells on Stannis' side. That's their only option since they're gonna fucking hate the Lannisters for killing Loras. That would make for an interesting story.

 

Wait...we're thinking of the same Renly right? Pompous, entitled douchebag? Yeah, I don't think that grief washes that away.

Also: Why would the death of Loras lead him to join with Stannis? What does he have to offer? Salt and stone?

 

I love Stannis the Mannis but the Tyrells wouldn't have bent the knee to him simply because Stannis doesn't inspire loyalty from afar, the only people who are truly loyal to him are the ones who actually know him. Plus, Stannis isn't one to forget anything and considering the Siege of Storm's End, I'm not sure if Stannis is capable of allying himself with Tyrells. Although, I imagine any interaction between the Queen of Thorns and Stannis would be hilarious.

Besides, why would Stannis be the only option for the Tyrells? If we are going to talk about divergences, I always thought one of the most interesting one would have been an alliance between Highgarden and Winterfell. In the books, after Catelyn learns of Robb's wedding to Jeyne Westerling, she thinks (I'm paraphrasing) "if you had to fall into the arms of another woman, why couldn't it have been Margarey Tyrell and the 50,000 swords of Highgarden".....I read a fic about this a while ago but it was just a shitty romantic one. I wish someone wrote a fic where a divergence like this was done right.

Edit:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9189562/1/Yours

Here is the fc, I was talking about. please don't take it as a recommendation.

 

So Robb gets the north the river lands and maybe the iron islands after throwing down Bslon. High garden gets the Reach, Stormlands, the king lands, Dragonstone, Dorn if they can take, and Westlands. The Valley of Aryn stays independent or maybe bends to Robb.

Honestly I think everyone going independent more likely. Robs honor would let him support rebels, which is what highgarden is.

 

He's described as being quite unattractive, at the very least. Off the top of my head, he has mismatched eyes and his hair is supposed to be thin, pale, and stringy. He's also supposed to be missing half of his nose post-Blackwater. So the book canon ugliness is not just due to his dwarfism.

Also, finally got around to watching last weekend's episode. Holy balls, that was awesome. The final scene with Danaerys literally gave me chills, and Olenna is at least as awesome as she was in the books.

 

Not really, see: how everyone reacts to Peter Dinklage. In Westeros they might think him an oddity to say the least but they're not gonna see him the same way they'd see Book!Tyrion, where there instincts will be confirmed by what their eyes are showing them.

 

Considering Peter Dinklage doesn't live in a medieval-esque world...

Also, yes yes coleam, he was disfigured at the Blackwater. Prior to that though, part of the revulsion re: Tyrion was definitely due to his dwarfism. Never was anywhere implied he was a particularly good-looking dude, but even if he were he'd be an abomination to most of Westeros.

 

Dinklage doesn't fit the image of Tyrion, yes. Not terribly witty when no one disputes it, Tehan.

A for effort, C- for execution. Try to not intentionally miss the point next time.

And yet I still can't seriously fault Dinklage's casting at all. His delivery of Tyrion's lines is spot fucking on. About the only issue is that he hasn't quite managed to convey how fundamentally broken a person Tyrion is.