What?You haven't said anything contentious. Part of the revulsion was due to his dwarfism? We all agree. What I'm saying is that dwarfism +ugly face is worse than dwarfism +handsome face. It's basically a double tap.

We can argue how much but it plays a huge part, he has misshapen brows, different color eyes and hair, and is just generally unpleasant. He looks like a monster. People's dislike of him goes beyond him being a dwarf, when they look at his face they see a monster. It's viscerally disgusting on two levels.

 

So why are you arguing the point to being with then, since I didn't say anything contentious?

Legit question, but I'm not sure I actually want to know the answer.

 

Because you're denying downplaying or denying the effect Dinklage's attractiveness has on the perception of him? Not in the particular line I repeated back but that is the general gist of your argument no? I repeated that line because it's basically milquetoast. It doesn't really say anything. Which was the original (and better) summation really.

Clear?

 

I think he's arguing that the Westerosi view is that a dwarf could NEVER be attractive, even if it were actually Peter Dinklage. I don't quite agree, but I do think he would still be considered significantly less attractive than he is in modern day society.

 

Not everything I ever post is about you, Aurion. I was supplying the quote and the picture as an aide to the continuing conversation, as nobody had brought up that specific reference to his appearance.

Though if it makes you feel better, I can pander to your ego and make a post that's all about directly attacking you, personally. You suck. F- for sucking, F---- for sucking even more. Is that better?

 

It's like Tyrion said when he was talking to Jon; if he had been born a peasant he would have been abandoned in the wilderness. I really do think it'd take something monumental for people to ever even begin to see past that.

Even if he does end up saving the world somehow, he'll be the sad little monster that saved the world. *shrug*

Just my opinion.

Scrib: I don't disagree. I'm just saying that the dwarfism makes his other appearance issues all the worse. It's sort of like a magifying glass; since Tyrion is a dwarf his lack of attractiveness draws even more attention, since he's already a "freak" to begin with. His appearance goes from "ugly" to "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE LITTLE FREAK". If that makes sense.

Tehan: Fair enough, consider it retracted. Figured you were just trying to be a smartass.

 

By what right does the wolf judge the lion.....what a fantastic scene. Nikolaj Costar-Waldau better get an Emmy nomination and that scene should be what he submits. Jaime is probably my favorite (varies between him and Stannis) character and I have really been anticipating that scene - the team behind Thrones truly did it justice.

Speaking of justice, they have not really done much of it to the TV version of Stannis. However, that seemed to change with this episode where they are starting to give him some complexity. That look on Dillane's face, when Selyse is happy about his infidelity and talks to the jars, was was just soooo disappointed and pained. Also, I know Selyse is a little nuts in the books but R'hollor, they really made her batshit insane with the pickled babies and all.

Tywin Lannister is amazing. His fury at what his children have done to the Lannister name was so great and it just adds to his character's motivation of legacy. Honestly, the Lannisters are the best part of the series, without them the world of Westeros would be dull.

 

Without them, the series would be an odd-couple buddy comedy featuring Eddard and Robert, and Syrio Forel would be a recurring character.

 

I better get some fucking Patchface before this series is over.

...I say, even though I know I won't. RIP Patchface. Your backstory being literally the most terrifying will be missed.

Also, can't wait to meet the Martells (probably next season).

Also, second on Nikolaj's recommendation for Emmy. He's putting the whole effort into Jaime and fucking killing it, and even had time to star in Oblivion on the side.

 

For sure next season, why bother to cast such important characters this season when they can have some nice casting news prior to season 4 if they just save them? And they can wait to hire them, heh.

I actually really liked batshit crazy Selyse a lot....a lot more interesting than prim, stern, nagging, ugly Selyse. They've already changed Stannis' portrayal enough that I've stopped caring what they do with that too much.

I loved Shireen, but I just don't get why that Ingram can't just wear a wig or dye her hair (she IS 13). The whole Baratheons being black of hair thing does not compute with Shireen being blonde. The actress is really good, I thought, but it was hard to forgive that lack of continuity. Just going to keep telling myself she's one of those kids with blonde hair that darkens with age...

 

"Father, please. Don't make me do this again."

Don't know if how it was said or just the general setting, but I felt a little bit bad for Cersei.

 

I thought this episode was, in many ways, just as brilliant as the previous one. Fewer moments of awesome but some amazing character moments. Great acting all round - the kind of episode I'd point people to if I wanted to sell Game of Thrones to them.

 

Considering how smug she was just ten seconds ago I found it difficult to muster any sympathy. Turnabout is fair play.

The look on his face when Tyrion mentions Tysha was just chilling. I didn't enjoy the scene a few episodes ago where Tywin denied tyrion Casterly Rock as much as some, but Dance's performance has been stellar in general.

Yeah, characters like the Starks (mostly the males) seem to cleave to what I expect from fantasy, even if the events of the story don't, which causes me to see them in a different light but I prefer the Lannisters. They all seem to just pivot away from your expectations. And they're delightfully dysfunctional.

I see it the other way. People will probably assume that dwarves are cursed in some way. Book!Tyrion's features only exacerbate this while TV!Tyrion's probably help reduce the disgust. So, to me, Book!Tyrion has a much better basis for any belief that he needs to pay to have any sort of honest relationship with a woman. We don't see that much more disgust from others in one version compared to the other, so he wins out because he looks much worse.

 

Hm. I don't know, it's probably the closest we'll see a young Cersei on TV without flashbacks. The sense of smugness just getting destroyed in fear of what her father's commanding. Perfect showing of family dynamics in play.

 

Well, she did look pretty youthful. Reveling in Tyrion's suffering agrees with her :|

I'm not denying that it showed the dynamic I just find it hilarious how quickly her mood went from confidence to horror.

 

The problem with Cersei is she has all of Tywin's ambition but damn near none of all his ability, plus a bitter, sadistic streak - that may have been caused by and, if not, was definitely exacerbated by the complete lack of sexual equality in Westeros.

She surrounds herself with toadies chosen for their loyalty instead of their ability and time and time again is shocked when they completely screw the pooch. She created Joffrey, for crying out loud, and ignores everything wrong with him. She makes stupid decisions fuelled by her own bitterness and is completely blind to the fact that she's her own goddamn foil.

If she'd just played the hand she'd been dealt and squeezed out a couple of Robert's brats while taking moon tea for her parties with Jaime then she probably never would have had a problem with Ned, Stannis, or Renly. The tensions with the Tyrells are entirely of her own making because she feels threatened by Margaery, whereas if she'd just played ball with them they would have been steadfast allies.

Cersei thinks she is everything Margaery actually is, but she's actually everything she suspects Margaery of being. It's a rather beautiful parallel.

 

Something I just realized from this episode: Wasn't Loras still in mourning for Renly at this point? To the extent he willingly joined the Kingsguard in-the-books? That scene with the squire threw me for a loop.

Edit:

This is book-only and doesn't happen in the tv show, but....

What do you think would have happened to

Spoiler

Ramsay Snow/Reek

if Winterfell hadn't fallen? I mean, Rodrik had him captured and it wasn't like he was going to get freed since his manservant took part in a lot of the same stuff he did, so...

 

Not much to add to what hasn't already been said, The Lannister family by far and away making this episode their own across the varying storylines.

Not sure if we're discussing spoilers, or at least future events so, just in-case (Future events):

Spoiler

Honestly thought the best shot of this episode was that of Roose Bolton at Harrenhal, he looks almost like a double for Tywin and for anyone paying attention that hasn't read the books, well, foreshadowing abounds. Albeit they'll think Roose is keeping Jaime safe for Robb to deal with but hey ho.

 

The problem with this is that to do these things would be to change what makes Cersei, Cersei. One of the great things about ASoIaF is that almost all the betrayals and things that go wrong can all be traced back to amazingly realistic portrayals of human weakness which really form the backbone of what makes the series great.

Yes, Cersei could have sucked it up and popped out a few kids and put the matter to rest - IF she weren't so resentful of Robert for being an asshole, IF she didn't always grow up resenting that the only thing keeping her from being a great ruler was one chromosome (or not being born her gender into, say, the Tyrells), IF she weren't truly infatuated with Jaime incest taboo be damned.

Similarly, all of Robert's Rebellion could have been avoided if Rhaegar hadn't kidnapped Lyanna (Or if Lyanna hadn't eloped with him, depending on interpretation). Or if someone had assassinated Mad King Aerys before a member of his own Kingsguard was finally driven to do it. Or, the War in the North might have been avoided had Ned not clung to tightly to the dogma of honor.

But change any of these things, and you change who the characters are. This is what makes A Song of Ice and Fire the best value for your dollar in fantasy - not the plot, or the prose or even the fantasy elements, but the fact that GRRM is telling human stories in a fantasy world.

 

Heh. Heh.