No on the off chance I was wrong on my read and he was scum. As we now know that's not the case. I admit, not one of my better plans, but I didn't want to ignore the fact that he might have been trying to play defense for his scum team. And if you note, I didn't pick him in the end. In fact, if I recall correctly, I never really mentioned him again after that in the same manner.

 

...that was my point. If you think someone is town, why even consider voting them? Sure, you can be wrong - and on day 1, chances are you are wrong - and there's no certainty until the roles are mechanically confirmed, but it doesn't make any sense to go after them instead of someone you have a bad or no positive opinion of.

 

Which is to say, what we did to Jwlk and Castiel you mean?

 

@Moridin: /slowclap that is how you pressure someone.

@Stojil: No cotent posts + vote > post parroting yesterday's discussion. But whatever you want to spin as doubt-casting bra.

Ps: You missed 191/192

Riley: ... I'm after who again?

 

I vehemetly explained that I wanted to choose neither bangwagon but in the end I voted for one of the two because to do otherwise would have brought inordinate amount of pressure on me to explain why I didn't hop on one of the two bandwagons. You however, not only hopped one but led the charge to change from Castiel to Fen to ensure a hard lynch when we already had a soft lynch set and when a good amount of people knew they were taking a shot in the dark but you're busting my balls for that?

Why did you feel the need to make it a hard lynch when we already had a soft lynch on Castiel before you switched over? (If I'm misunderstanding the mechanics here, please explain but I thought that's how hard and soft lynches work right?)

---------- Post automerged at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

@ Kalas, sorry about that, I guess I skipped over your post explaining to Fontisian your reasoning.

 

Could you expand on that? Not quite sure what you mean there.

Sesc, I'm not too happy with any plan which advocates a surefire lynch for the day. IIRC we had one of those in the previous game I played (or possibly the one before?), and it basically killed off activity since there was no real pressure.

Castiel is a good bet, yes. He's where my vote is at. But he is by no means the only suspect, and I don't think we should lock in on any one right now. He could respond well while Rubicon, say, or Kaemrynn, or myself or Riley end up being pressured and saying something that is grounds for a lynch. Committing right now takes that option away.

 

What? What we did to jwlk as in the bandwagon at the beginning of the game? That was before anyone could have had any read whatsoever on anyone. No one thought he was town and considered voting him at that point. It was pressure and randomness, apparently.

And what we did to Castiel? The context is completely different. Your jwlk derp wasn't even 24 hours in. The Castiel bandwagon took off a few hours before the deadline, when there were no other apparent options beside Fenraellis.

The clarification I was looking for isn't there. I wanted you to explain to me this:

What does the bold part mean? "All" what? What is it referred to? I simply don't get it.

We never reached hard lynch on day 1 and I can't believe you still don't get the concept after the whole Fenraellis discussion. What did you think we were talking about all that time?

Hard lynch would have been reached with 7 votes on the same target yesterday and it would have meant the early end of day (like it would mean today with 6 votes). Soft lynch is the number of votes necessary to have a lynch (and not a no-lynch) when the day ends. It doesn't shorten it.

I switched from Fenraellis to Castiel just so the remaining players who had not voted or the ones voting for not-realistic targets would pick a side, which helps us more than the alternative. I switched from Castiel to Fenraellis because at the end of the day I preferred his lynch for various reasons, which I explained both in that post and in the whole of day 1, I believe.

Pretty much every day 1 lynch is a shot in the dark, because there's really little to no info to go about. But that's the thing, if you refrain from doing it, day 2 isn't going to be much better!

I agree with Sesc both on Riley and Castiel. Riley continues to make no sense and Castiel's lynch would be the most informative no matter what he flips. I think there are likelier scum to be found in Kalas, Moridin, Rubicon and Sesc himself.

Sesc: I have no idea what you think of anyone in this game beside Riley. You're playing so safe it hurts. I want your reads. Now.

 

All as in backtracking. Non confrontational. Gets called out on me, backs down. Pokes people but lets them off when he gets anything that could be construed as an answer (with the slight exception of Castiel). The opposite of his latest post basically.

---------- Post automerged at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

*latest posts I should say. Missed the one above me

---------- Post automerged at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Also could you throw me some reads on Riley and Bill. Preferably with a little more effort then Bill put into his.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there now. I think Kaemrynn is either a scum or a third party faction of some kind if there is one.

Reason: This is exactly how I played my first mafia as a third party scum/regular scum. I was quiet as shit and hid most of the time till the end.

 

Riley: I've been talking about him a lot, so look for my other posts for my opinion of him (I'm lazy). I think he's either derp-town or so-scummy-it-almost-becomes-a-good-strategy scum.

Bill Door: he doesn't feel nearly as towny as he usually does. He's less aggressive, less picky and less active (less accusations, not so much less votes). Too many of his posts mention how he was "forced" to choose either the Fenraellis or the Castiel bandwagon despite not wanting to, which could be an attempt to distance himself from the eventual town role-flip of either one of them. He has a couple of good things going for him (votes, some discussion-stirring posts and a bit of scum-hunting), though. Null read, mostly because half the thread is twice as scummy as he is right now.

 

Congrats on the nephew, Riley.

I don't think Riley is the lynch for today.

Bill needs to come up with a real post ASAP - e.g., not just pressuring lurkers to post more and voting the person who was voting him all yesterday - or he's scum. I'm not thinking this is Bill's town play. Vote: Bill.

I'm also getting pings from this corner of the game:

How do you know this?

I am more interested in what you think of this plan, since you're the one who suggested it. Is Castiel scum? Do you think we should lynch him for information?

Yup. I play a lot of mafia games on different sites and am used to thinking in acronyms.

I reject Font's implication that only scum think about power roles during a game. I think being aware of the setup of a game and possible PRs is critical to good town play.

 

I just got home, I am tired as hell and need sleep, I will look about making a bigger post tomorrow.

Right now, I also think we should lynch me. The only way I can prove I am town is via RR on death, and until that happens scum will use this to keep the town occupied while they pick us off one by one. Since I don't have a Power Role it wouldn't affect the town much either.

Anyways, I will check back in the morning.

 

Honestly? This is exactly how I played my first mafia game, IIRC. I don't remember if I was scum, but I don't think I was. It's just newbie behaviour, keep away from the limelight because you don't quite understand what was going on.

Like I said, I don't like this. Stojil, you mentioned that it would give us the most information - you've yourself said multiple times though that pressure, and specifically voting, is the key to activity. Are you really comfortable with this, given it basically gives everyone not Castiel a day off? If you think there are likelier scum around (and you do), why not poke said scum and try and get something there? You can't do that if you have a preplanned lynch, not today anyway.

How about considering the scenarios where Castiel is scum and he is town.

If he's scum, I go straight to Rubicon, for the reasons in post 195. I'd also consider Kaemrynn, but honestly that would just be a reappraising, because as I said his whole vendetta could be interpreted both ways. I suppose it would make Stojil a little townier, or at least not on the same team, since it would be an incredible risk to bring a scum teammate to one below lynch considering there were decent arguments against him. The same with Bill Door (and possibly Riley) for similar reasons, though again I wouldn't discount a second team.

If he's town, on the other hand, well... that becomes a little trickier. I suppose in that case I'd take his suspicion as sincere and actually focus on pressuring Kaemrynn, since the latter's a player many of us are looking for more from anyway. I'd have to reread the thread (don't have time for that now, but will in a bit) in order to get a clearer picture of that world.

Ditto. Hope the family's doing well, Riley.

Hello, Rubicon. Post 195, bottom part.

Why not?

Good point. Could you answer his question anyway? The Stojil part, that is.

Wasn't he the one who suggested it? In any case, consider the issue anyway. Wait until Sesc's answer to post your views, if you like, but don't ignore the plan until he gets back to you.

---------- Post automerged at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

What. No. Why would you say this. This is ridiculous.

Proving you are town is not your end goal. Winning the game for town is. How would scum use this to keep the town occupied, exactly? If you get locked in as a lynch, they gain a dead townie and a day free of pressure - effectively three consecutive nights, for all the information it will give us.

Power roles aren't the whole part of mafia. There's a reason people with vanilla roles play. Power roles provide additional information, they are never supposed to be the only important figures in any game. If you are town, then your primary desire is to see town win, and in that case you need to make each day count as much as possible, not throw them away like this.

Scumhunt. Build a case or two. Call out suspicious people and note their reactions. If at the end of the day you are lynched, fine. It would, admittedly, hurt less if a vanilla died than if a cop or doctor died. But at least we got a whole day of discussion and deliberation out of it. Conversely, if you weren't lynched, then we lynched someone else who was more suspicious - and nine times out of ten you don't act that suspicious without giving townies who are looking a decent amount of information on you and others, whatever your alignment.

Honestly, this just looks like stupid self-sacrificing townie or scum trying to look like stupid self-sacrificing townie - which, ironically, makes me want to lynch you more.

I am too, to be honest. If you have an issue with him, pressure him. I would still like to hear the answer to this, particularly regarding the concerns I've raised.

 

What? You have the weirdest logic I've ever seen. Do you not get that we're not meant to be lynching town members? Yet you voted for Fen when you thought he was town, and now you want us to lynch you to prove that you are town.

You shouldn't be trying to confirm yourself as town, you should be looking for scum.

---------- Post automerged at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

>_> Moridin said it better than me.

 

The last thing you said about Kalas and Rubicon (beside that they're suspicious) was at the beginning of day 1. Are you still thinking about that when you consider them scummy?

I missed your towny read of fontisian. Where is it and what is it based on?.

What you said about me and Castiel (before this last post) was more speculation (I'm looking for a better word, but you know what I mean) than an actual opinion. I'm good with it now.

No comment on the 3 players you have no read on. /me shakes head

:facepalm

This is so idiotic I really want to rage-lynch you for it.

First thing first, my vote is not on Castiel and I am poking other players I consider scummier. Second, I think you're overestimating our ability, our predisposition even, as a rather stubborn and proud community of hipster-nerds, to agree to such a plan as a team and commit to it. This would never happen as smoothly as you seem to think, which means getting info from all sorts of tells that we could add to whatever flip we'd have (Castiel's or someone else's) and everything that happened on day 1.

 

To be fair, you did say that you agreed with Sesc about Castiel's lynch being more informative. And I could swear we had at least one lynch in either Dresden's Dilemma or a game before that where this exact situation occurred - in fact, someone complaining about it is what reminded me to post speaking up against it in the first place.

Never doubt the ability of people to sit back and let others do their thinking for them. Day 1 Jwlk was a pretty good example of that, I think we've seen.

---------- Post automerged at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------

By Day 1 Jwlk, I mean the lynch against him in the very beginning, not his own actions thereafter.

 

It's a niece, just letting you know, but thanks for the congrats guys.

Where the hell is Kaemrynn, seriously?

Stojil, just a bit of meta here but when has Castiel not been for lynching himself (which seems to be never). It's always going to make people rage. I think however that it's just his "good intentions". It's not really something I can explain I guess.

@ Moridin: there's newbie behavior and then there's not posting more than once in a whole day. I think something fishy is going on there.

---------- Post automerged at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

In fact, as of this post, Kaemrynn hasn't posted during this day, something everyone has managed at least once, for better or worse.