Nah man, it was love. :awesome I don't think Lily knew that her sacrifice was going to save Harry.

 

If you took the things as it is given in canon, you are absolutely right, Harry can't do all those impressive magical things. But I, as a reader, tried to add an dimension to Harry's character, perhaps flawed, that Harry had enough potential magically to support his knowledge of complex and obscure fields of magic, if he had indeed pursued it (which of course he didn't).

For instance, I don't believe that each and everyone can cast all the charms or curses, just because he has mastered the theories. That particular individual needs to have enough magical potential to pull it off, having mastered theory or not. It's not like our common problems in maths that one learns the formula, practices on it, and he could solve questions of that type. I somehow consider it different in magic, where just practicing and knowing all about it won't do it for you, you just need to have the raw power/potential. (Though this is a dangerous territory, one can almost call it dumb to believe in magical potential, but sue me for believing in it.)

So, what I believe is that Harry had that sort of magical aptitude, if not as grand as others, but enough to pull stuffs off. Given, if he actually did try to learn the theoretical part of those awesome magics.

Of course, he doesn't do any thing of that sort which I am conjecturing about. And tbh, I also believe he didn't have the temperament to actually pursue the knowledge, so eventually he won't be doing anything too impressive. But in essence, it's the potential I talked about earlier, and I would still like to believe in it.

I think our pov is quite different on this, you are analyzing it quite rationally while I am taking the toll on 'magical factor' involved in all of it. But meh.

It's a fantasy world, and as a reader one has the freedom to fantasize with the character, while relating himself to that character, so I can't blame them. There won't be any correct or definite explanation to each and every thing in a fantasy world, and different readers have the freedom to enjoy it with their pov and their individual interpretations to it. A debate on this matter could be entirely fruitless and retarded.

Edit: Also the freedom doesn't extend to making characters gay. It's about adding to the things given in the books, according to your logical interpretation, and doing it in reasonable ways. So if one interprets Harry and Snape as soul mates, it's much more retarded.

 

She, a master of controlled "accidental" magic intended for her sacrifice to save Harry and and that's what counts in HP magic: will, intent, and emotion (love, in this case). Lily could do magic without a wand, as we know, so just because she didn't have her wand with her doesn't mean she didn't perform a spell of some sort. Whatever she did, it defeated Voldemort. Twice (both times in Book 1).

Should we trust Voldemort (who was grandstanding at the time and would be unlikely to admit he was defeated by a Muggleborn witch) when he said she did so "unwittingly," or consider the possibility that she did intend for whatever happened to happen?

 

There's no indication that Harry performed any sort of spell at the end of DH, but it achieved the same result.

 

I think he could catch up. I mean he has like...50 years to catch up to Voldemort and 100 to Dumbledore. You just have to give him the right mindset. On Taure's scale I'd put him at a high 3 at the end of the series, a 2 during the course of the epilogue.

If he was plodding along as the 100 year old Headmaster in Harry Potter 2 I think he could conceivably be as good as Dumbledore.

Although wtih Harry's personality he'd just be wandering around wanting to play with his great grandkids and shit.

 

No, not really. Maybe he could hit in the same general ballpark if he spent his entire life trying to get there, but it wouldn't happen as a normal or natural part of his progression and experience. Dumbledore and Grindelwald were geniuses when it came to magic, Mozarts with wands, and Voldemort was not too terribly dissimilar from Harry in terms of intellect or skill, but he pumped himself full of Dark Magic steroids using rituals that Harry would never dream of, changing himself to the point that his magical ability was practically superhuman.


Unless Harry was willing to walk the same path that Riddle did to become Voldemort, no, he would never be as comparably skilled. Not unless he spent a lifetime trying to be, but that's by virtue of hard work, and has nothing whatsoever to do with any of Harry's own merits in that regard.

Or in other words, no, with the caveat that he could potentially get there, maybe, but it would take a fifty-to-sixty year training montage. And even then, it still might not be enough.

They don't suck. It's just that Hermione and the Twins got all of the talent. It's comparably equal; Harry's generation just has it concentrated into three people, instead of being spread around evenly.

That depends on where his gifts actually lie. I'd say in terms of being gifted, he's a natural genius at thinking on his feet. It's saved his life more than once, when other people would have panicked or been lost in confusion and fear.


He also seems to have a knack for charms himself much like his mother, given the immense difficulty associated with creating any sort of Patronus at all, let alone a corporeal Patronus. I find this amusing, personally, as the fanon and fandom tends to paint his talents in a martial direction, when in reality he seems to have much more of his mother's talents in that regard.


He's even proven to have an excessive amount of natural talent in Potions, when Snape isn't nearby. Again, his skillset calls Lily to mind far more than anyone or anything else.


Realistically, an adult Harry extrapolated out would less of a spell-slinging combat fiend, and more of a quiet master of the softer and more subtle magics, like Lily was.


It rather makes me wonder how long it would have taken him to learn the Invisibility or Flight charms, had he been shown them.

 

It makes sense why Dumbledore didn't train him. He made Harry to do a Lily while in this case Harry would survive because Voldemort would keep the Lily's protection alive. If that wasn't all Harry's wand observed Voldemort skill and would have caused major problems if they duelled. Harry is one extremely lucky guy. I wonder how Neville would be if he was marked.

---------- Post automerged at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

For some reason I keep imagining Harry would be like how Arthur was. While Ginny as would be like her mother. The same can be applied for Ron and Hermione.

---------- Post automerged at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

In the books Voldemort is potrayed as insane madman. I read fics where he is potrayed as an evil genius he should be. He would have made a much tougher villan for Harry.

 

I'm not denying that his character was horrible, it was. What am asking is, is Malfoy really mediocre, at least academically? IIRC he did manage to get into Snape's newt class and he was able to conjure an actual snake in his second year.

According to Taure he's on the same level as Ron, something am not too sure about unless there's actual proof of this.

 

Who would you say is better Ron or Malfoy?

 

Was there really ever any doubt Snape would let him into his NEWT class? Draco could be the second coming of Merlin (the first ended up in a sock), but him getting into Snape's class still wouldn't be any metric of his skill.

That would be like my mom telling me to fuck off when I tried to sit at the dinner table. :| There was never any doubt I'd be eating, even if I were a feckless dirtbag.

Quality-wise or skill-wise?

I'm generous enough to say Ron is the better person, though I'd prefer not to spend my time with either one. I'd even argue Ron is more skillful, in most ways that don't involve eating amongst civilized company, or shooting one's mouth off without getting caught.

 

We all know you love Grindelwald Raine, but really Voldemort is nothing but Harry with steroids? Wizards fear to speak his name. He was one of the most brilliant wizard to have gone through Hogwarts; he found the Chamber of Secrets where everyone else failed (including Dumbledore), he killed and crafted his first Horcrux at the age of 15-16. He would have overthrown the ministry of magic had it not been of Lily Potter. He casted a curse on Hogwarts that only ended with his death. The thing that has been bugging me a lot with Voldemort is how JK portrayed him stupid as fuck while telling us everywhere how much of a genius he was.

As for the patronus charm thing, in relation to Harry of course, while we've been told it is an extraordinary skill of magic (Most wizards are not capable of doing that!) and yet Harry teaches to a bunch of school children between 1st and 7th year. A bunch of them managed to make corporeal one. Actually, every fucking adult seems to be able to do it.

 

That is being generous. The same Ron that abandoned Harry at the beginning of his fourth year? The same Ron that abandoned Harry mid-way through their hunt for Horcruxes? If we look at what Harry did... I'm struggling to find any personality flaws let alone ones that come to the level of abandoning your best friend.

(Edit: I can think of him having some anger issues.)

He was also competent enough to repair the vanishing cabinet by himself. In practical magic, it seems that Malfoy was more advanced as I don't recall Ron ever doing any advanced magic. I would extrapolate that to academic performance since there appears to be a good correlation between the two based on Harry, Hermione and Ron.

He showed no such excess of talent at potions whatsoever. The only reason he excelled in his sixth year was because of Snape's potion book. He simply followed the instructions whereas Snape actually came up with the improvements himself (presumably). I don't recall him making a potion outside of potions class other than the one in second year which I think Hermione mostly made.

 

It may be a reference to Harry's performance in the Potions O.W.L., which earns him an E and is a somewhat pleasant experience, as opposed to Snape breathing down his neck and failing him whether he makes a decent potion or not.

 

Ron has jealousy issue and fixed those by the time of his 7th year (or mostly). The only reason he walked out during the Horcrux hunt was because of said Horcrux rekindling his jealousy. Plus, add the stress of being hunted, at war, of not knowing what is happening to your family, learning that your sister has disappeared from Hogwarts ( I think he knew that by then, not sure), and making no progress whatsoever on the hunt...I can understand him walking out.

Also, Ron said as soon as he apparated out he realized he wanted to come back (he didn't have the horcrux anymore) but couldn't because of the wards.

 

Actually re-reading what was written the comparison was made between Ron and Malfoy, not Ron and.. Harry. I'm not sure how I misread that.

 

This is completely fanon.

1. We're told Voldemort was the best student to ever pass through Hogwarts, by Dumbledore himself. Maybe he was being humble, but even if he was that still makes Voldemort the second best.

2. Voldemort performing rituals to boost his capacities is never mentioned in canon. What we have is him mentioning going further than anyone before in becoming immortal. In HBP it becomes clear that this is talking about the horcruxes, which are also the cause of his change in appearance: each horcrux he makes changes how he looks.

Re: Malfoy. He's never shown any sign of competence. He loses every single time he goes up against Harry, or any of Harry's peers, in a magical contest. Lucius is disappointed in his grades. I'm going to flip the question back at you, Quick Ben: what is there to make us think he's anything other than of average skill (aka Ron)?

Re: Harry's supposed talent with Charms. Is everyone else forgetting Harry's struggle to learn the summoning charm in GoF? Or the innumerable other mentions of Charms he struggled with, such as the refilling charm in HBP?

The only Charms he ever shows talent with are those used in defence: Patronus, Shield, Stunning.

Moreover, I really don't know why people continue to insist on trying to use the Patronus Charm as evidence of general magical skill. It's beyond clear that the Patronus Charm is a very different kind of magic to regular charms, as it relies on emotion - particularly love (thinking of his love for his friends works as a positive emotion to summon the Patronus). Remember what Harry's greatest power is? On top of that, the success of the Charm at the end of PoA was a one-off event, related to the use of time travel. Harry's Patronus never does the same thing again.

 

The way I see it, Voldemort was obsessed and mentally unkempt, particularly after his second return, and this made him unable to act rationally in spite of his brilliance. As I know all too well (I'm dealing with such a person at work right now, a genuinely brilliant guy in the process of a narcissistic, psychotic tail-spin), even exceptionally gifted people make shit decisions when they aren't all there upstairs.

 

I think this point is debatable: for example when we see Tom Riddle's meeting with Hepzibah Smith he had already made 3 Horcruxes - Diary and Gaunt ring (in his 5 year) and Ravenclaw Diadem (immediately after he left Hogwarts) yet no mention of any disfigurement, and Harry described him looking "more handsome the ever". He had gone halfway into his immortality plan already and nothing happened to his physical appearance. He looked ordinary. Yet he began to look inhuman after his 10 year journey, during which he:

And notice how practically all wizards, especially his followers regard him, as some kind of demi-god, something beyond human. Potter watch radio for example had to calm hysterical wizards and explain that Voldemort couldn't kill with a gaze..

And perhaps it may be Voldemort boasting, but he himself said, that:

And Voldemort seems to be more then a man - his voice, for example:

His movements described as gliding, not walking, we never seen him tired or sleeping..
Moreover, from where did Voldemort's likeness to a snake came from? Surely making 7 horcruxes will not give human specifically slitted eyes, flat nose, and his mind would not be that snakelike:

So, maybe he is an ordinary human with Horcruxes and great magical skill, but I personally don't believe that he could create that much fear of himself in his enemies, and practically religious worship of his followers if he was simply Dumbledore-level skilled wizard using Dark magic.

 

He had a flair for acting since his first year at Hogwarts.

As for the appearance, I always assumed that the baby-form he took during GoF using Nagini's milk was the reason he was so much disfigured, but you are right that he had started down that path way before.

 

It seems to me that all that backs up the horcrux idea: each horcrux makes him progressively less human. At first, this shows as appearing more handsome than ever (a little bit inhuman is attractive, like an unnatural perfection), but as he takes it further and further it becomes more and more weird, eventually resulting in the very waxy, frozen-in-time kind of look.

Almost like plastic surgery: perhaps a very small amount of subtle plastic surgery will make you look better, but too much of it and you just look unnatural.

I see the other aspects - not sleeping, not being tired, etc. (though who knows if he actually sleeps or not) as being related to this. As he sheds more and more of his humanity via the creation of his horcruxes he also sheds the things humans need to survive.

And I think this was intentional: we know that having various numbers of horcruxes have various effects - Voldemort wants to have seven soul fragments for a particular reason. He thinks having seven would be the strongest combination. That implies that having horcruxes does more than just make you immortal - they have other effects, and those effects will be most beneficial according to numerology/arithmancy.

This is part of why we should consider Voldemort making multiple horcruxes part of Voldemort's genius. He didn't just look up how to make horcruxes and think "hey, I could do this multiple times!". He had to figure out the magical effects of doing so, and find the optimum. He probably knows the effects of other combinations too, and there's probably a reason why he did it in stages: he seems to have lingered for a number of years at 1, 3 and 5. And we know the process of making horcruxes is rather more involved than just killing someone, so maybe the technique has to be adjusted too, if you're going to make several.