I read back through the chapter; hadn't realized just how many 'mayhaps' there were.

 

Forgot to ask in the first post I made, do Jon and Robert have some sort of plan or something for him based on their talk before he was ordered to hit Pate?

Also, any special plans for Selmy? Seems he sort of likes Harry, but does that mean he'll stay?

 

They want him to be Hand, and Robert might have been entertaining the idea of passing over Joffrey to crown his 2nd born son.

 

That... would be interesting to see, mostly because of how much stuff would get twisted because of it. Oh, and the temper tantrums that would follow.

 

I'd actually wondered why no one (in the story) had raised the possibility of Harry being named Roberts heir. It wouldn't be the first time that the heir presumptive had been passed over after all.

It's surprising that Tywin bypassing Tyrion didn't cause someone to comment that Robert may do the same, given how Harry seems so much more suitable than Joffery.

 

Tyrion is a cripple. He is malformed. Through his life he's been a prick, and is known for openly whoring about, and not exactly being what you'd expect from a lord, nor a lord's heir.

Joffrey is a bit of a prick, but it isn't like he goes around burning down villages for having the wrong number of letters in their name. He's not known for buggering stallions, or being buggered BY stallions. The populace wouldn't definitely revolt if he eventually became king, so why would he be passed over?

Especially as Cersei actually loves him.

 

A minor complaint;

There's something unclear, here. This quote could be interpreted as men not using lances to "trade blows" - but on the other hand, it could also be interpreted as them not being used for war at all.

In case it was the latter - then that is a pretty grave error on your part. The lance was the primary weapon of the medieval knight - a lance is basically a thick pike made for use on horseback. Perhaps you were thinking of tourney lances, which tend to be conical and are ultimately designed to be less-lethal weapons.

Oh, and actually, it may not be as dangerous to joust as it is to fight in a melee, but it's still very much potentially lethal. In a joust, you're charging at each other on horseback with big, pointy sticks at a relative velocity of up to 160 km/h, when both participants are taken into account - there's a lot more energy being thrown about than when people fight in a melee - the lance was the most devastating weapon (if essentially a one-use one in most circumstances) of the pre-gunpowder era, possibly excluding the steel-bow arbalest. The tourney lance was blunt, yes - but "sharpness" is ultimately a measure of how much force you're putting out per unit of area, and there's a lot of force behind a lance.

People died in jousts from time to time. Hell, I think Sandor killed someone in a joust in the first book, and from real history, we have King Henry II of France as a prominent example of someone who died jousting, and death from jousting was frequent enough that it was repeatedly banned by many authorative figures - such as kings and popes.

My apologies if I misinterpreted that quote - but you're either misinformed as to the nature of lances, or you're being unclear, so either way... *shrugs*


Edit by Minion: The following discussion can be found here: https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=24077

 

From what I remember, Robert seemed regretful during his deathbed scene, since he knew Joffrey would be crowed and that he would be an even worse king than Robert was. I wouldn't put it past Robert to pull a deathbed asspull and declare Harry heir to the Kingdom with his dying words.

As for what Cersei would do... She loves Joffrey, but in the original timeline, remember the only other male option was Tommen, and Cersei hates weakness. Was her fanatical support of Joff's excesses purely due to her love, or also because she saw him as the only workable option to hold the throne among her three children? Hard to say. But Harry has proved he's stronger and more dangerous than Joffrey, plenty of times over.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that what happened in the books should happen again. I believe that with Harry as a obvious Baratheon, there is no need for any investigation of any kind to take place. Without a investigation, there is no Ned Stark telling Cersei his plans to tell Robert of his suspicions, therefore Robert doesn't die. It could go either way I think. The huge amount of bastards with black hair and just one royal with it, could lead to what happened just as well.

 

Harry being an obvious Baratheon doesn't make Joffrey an obvious Baratheon. It makes him more obviously not a Baratheon, because the only traits the brothers share belong to Cersei, whereas Harry, and every other Baratheon boy, has black hair.

 

Damn, son, you've done your homework.

OT: Not having read ASoIaF (and being completely uninterested in stories with settings in the distant past), I don't intend to read this story, but it's an accomplishment to have a story so highly rated here. Good job.

 

Different topic, sorry.

I'm musing on the future. Specifically Stannis and Renly. If things happen as in canon, which it mightn't, and Stannis leaves for Dragonstone after Jon Arryns death, and Renly leaves after Roberts.. I can still see Renly proclaiming himself King... but I'm unsure about Stannis.

Renly because he believes he will be an Awesome king, and that being the "rightful" heir doesn't mean much, since Robert took the throne through war and why can't he? That he has as much right to the throne as his brother- and Roberts children, since he also decided to be king even before he knew about the incest.

Stannis though... I'm inclined to believe he would support Harry as King rather than himself, because unlike Renly he was very adamant that because he was the eldest, and Robert had no other true born heirs, he was King... Which is totally right. But yeah.

But I might be wrong. I'm only 52% through A Clash of Kings.

 

Gotta say, I like the idea of someone who's not a walking shitstain and who's not as liable to get unceremoniously killed being able to influence and hopefully better Westeros.

 

Also the Starks would also put their support behind Harry, since they were more inclined to support Stannis. But that's really only if Harry of okay with giving up the North, and I have no idea if Harry would be up for that.

Or maybe not. Harry is part Lannister after all, and the Starks Do Not Like Lannisters.

 

More on the Starks and Harry. I kinda take it back, sorta? They were willing to tell Joffery to go fuck himself even when they thought he was Roberts kid. And then supported Stannis over Tommen, because they obviously though a Baratheon > Lannister/Baratheon was the better choice.

I'm actually not sure if they would have settled for Tommen.

Harry being Lannister would be a Thing to them. But he's still not Joffery.

I don't even know man, I'm just rambling to myself here.

 

Hey EinStern would you be able to recommend any literature if I wanted to learn some more on what you were talking about?

On Topic: I feel the whole issue between Harry and the Starks would be more or less resolved if they actually met Harry. Though their perspectives would already be colored by any rumors they may have heard about the Black Prince.

 

Love this story. Easily the best Song of Ice and Fire fanfic for reasons many others have stated. 5/5.

If Ned is alive, the Starks will back Harry's claim 100%. If Ned dies at the hands of the Lannisters, Robb will probably declare himself King. Ned being executed and called a traitor is a big reason Robb rebelled in the first place - but I can't imagine if Harry's around things will go down like they did in canon, certainly I think if he's in King's Landing he will rescue Ned somehow. But maybe he'll still be fostering in Casterly Rock? It's interesting that if Harry had been sent to foster in Winterfell, Robb and the north might have supported him anyway as they would have gotten to like him and view him as honorable.

There have been hints that Harry intends to make a wand, but I kind of hope he fails. I'd rather he learn to cast more wandless spells than get his hands on a fully functional wand, since with a wand in his possession I don't see how he could realistically be challenged by anything short of dragons. That's assuming wandless spells are much weaker without a wand, of course.

It should be noted that in canon Robert did not smile at the bodies of the Targaryen children. Barriston Selmy thinks to himself that if he had seen Robert smile when presented with the bodies, Selmy would never have served him and in fact would have killed him. But Tywin did order it, and I can't imagine what Harry will do when he finds out.

I think Aeryn clearly befriended Harry in the hopes of improving her lot in life, and given the harsh world she lives in I can't really blame her. She only became interested in him after she learned he was a prince, before which she would have happily planted an arrow in him. I bet she never anticipated getting raped because of it though. If Harry and Aeryn do become romantic at some point, I wonder how they'll both react when Harry is inevitably betrothed for a political alliance. She can't actually believe he'll be allowed to marry her, right? In this world kings and princes are allowed to have mistresses on the side, so maybe that's all she hopes for, but Harry seems like he's developing into a one woman kind of guy and I doubt he'd go for that.

Speaking of romance, is it just me or are you setting the groundwork for Harry/Cersei or Harry/Myrcelle incest later on? Maybe I'm just reading into it, but they seem unusually close.

 

I don't think Harry would be able to save Ned. By that point Ned kind of dug his own grave and Joffery went against everyone's advice and killed him with no warning.

And I'm not sure that the Starks would take to Harry as well as you think they would. He's honourable, I suppose, but there is much more to him than that.

What I'm saying is that in canon, with Ned dead and Robb the King in the North, they pretty much supported Stannis for King. But with Stannis, maybe, not declaring himself king, they might go to the next best thing, in their eyes, and support Renly.

And no. No incest for Harry. (I hope!). Can't a boy be affectionate with his favourite sibling and mother without incesterly undertones? Heh, maybe not with the Lannisters.

 

Harry/Myrcella OTP. It must be done.

 

If Harry's is in King's Landing I think there's a good chance Ned wouldn't even get into a position to be executed. Harry just has already proven too competent and has to many tools - ghosts, magic, his influence/position - to prevent the situation deteriorating to that point. And he'd know Ned isn't lying and is in the right, as he has already proven capable of learning the truth by reading minds.

Or, like I said, if the author really wants it to go down as in canon the simplest solution is just to have Harry still be at Casterly Rock with Tywin.

Although I do think Harry would make every attempt to shield his mother & sister from the scandal. So maybe he wouldn't be so solidly on Ned's side after all.

If Ned is executed, Robb declares himself King in the North, and Stannis backs Harry's claim, I agree the Starks would probably ally with Renly.