Okay, that might justify disowning him. But how does that justify killing him again?

EDIT: Ninja'd. But while I'm at it...

I'd like to see something like that -- a darker turn at the Ministry that affects how things move on from there. It's a good divergence point I think, a lot could've gone wrong.

 

It doesn't. He's just a sociopath.

 

I don't think Harry should have killed him, but he definitely shouldn't have forgiven him either. Understanding that humans make mistakes is one thing, but allowing someone who's made the same utterly devastating, fail mistake twice return to your circle of confidants is another. Forgiving him would have implied a greater lack of understanding than refusing to let him return would have. Leaving Ron behind at that point would have shown that he realized someone like Ron doesn't stop doing bullshit like that, he continues to care so much about himself that he judges others only in terms of how they measure up to the ridiculous and unspoken standards he has set for them.

He abandoned his friends to die alone in the woods. For mostly wuss reasons. And then he comes back and not only expects his friends to forgive him, but (Along with J.K. Rowling, apparently) Hermione to still have feelings for someone who has shown himself to be utter scum? Twice?

Ron never tries harder than he absolutely has to to get by, and when those around him excel, he resents them for their efforts. He expects those around him to love and admire him without giving them any reason to, and insults them viciously when they don't. Who needs enemies with friends like Ron?

 

Okay, fuck you and the horse your rode in on. I've bolded the most egregiously stupid points you made, but the whole post is generally awful. I'm going to go through them all, so put on your big boy panties and strap in, because this is probably going to be a TL;DR.

Oh yes, someone getting pissed off at their friend and putting some distance between the two of them is such an unforgivable mistake, ranking right up there with selling your best friend and his family out to a murderous Dark wizard. It's amazing (and indicative of immense stupidity on Harry's part) that they were ever able to make up after such an intense betrayal, and then he goes and does it again? Fuck him, those two incidents far outweigh his friendship over the past several years. Besides, as we all know, friends never forgive each other.

Really? I don't recall him leaving any other time during DH, so it isn't like he's continuously abandoning them at every turn. Or are you implying that he continued doing in during the interim between DH proper and the Epilogue? Well, good luck showing that, McGruff, because there is absolutely no evidence of that occurring, and what we see in the epilogue is three ostensibly happy friends, so it worked out in the end after all. Guess he kinda did stop doing that, then.

Ha ha ha ha – Fuck. You. It was this right here that turned my feelings from "Oh dear, somebody doesn't understand," to "Okay, mknote's gotta slap a bitch."

First, he hardly abandoned his friends to die – where did you even get that idea. He left the camp – a decision, by the way, that he immediately regretted – after a heated argument with Harry and Hermione. He didn't steal their food, leaving them to starve, nor did he go out and give Voldemort information as to where they were. He did nothing which impeded their ability to survive, which is highlighted by the fact that they did survive. He also tried to immediately go back, hardly the actions of someone who was "leaving them to die alone."

Second, and the lynchpin that causes the entire argument to fall apart, is the tiny little fact that Ron was being influence by fucking Voldemort's soul! You know, the same thing that prevented Harry from having a happy enough memory to conjure a Patronus? Yeah, it kinda fucks with your mind and maybe makes you do things you otherwise wouldn't. The argument could be made that it didn't make Harry or Hermione give up, which I attribute to two factors: 1.) As I recall, Ron held the Locket for the longest time, and as we can surmise from the experiences with the Diary, prolonged exposure increases the effects of the Horcrux. 2.) Perhaps Ron himself was more susceptible to that sort of action than Harry or Hermione. I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility given what we know of his character. To completely condemn him for having a slightly weaker character for an action he probably wouldn't have made if he wasn't carrying Voldemort's soul... Well, then you certainly have very high expectations of people.

I call bullshit. Certainly Ron doesn't have the drive of Hermione, but if he'd never tried any harder than he had to, he would have gotten A's on every one of his OWLs. I seem to recall him getting at least a few E's, which means he did try harder than he had to to simply get by. And don't even say it was Hermione doing the work for him – she couldn't have held his hand through the OWL exams. Do you want another area where Ron tried (and succeeded) to improve himself? Quidditch. He started off as a pretty poor Keeper, but he kept working and turned into a fairly good one. Finally, do you want to know who else has a similar drive as Ron? Harry. Say all you want that Ron is the reason for that (which is another whole pile of bullshit), I don't see you calling Harry out on it, only Ron.

You want to hate Ron? Fine. Be my guest. But try to do it in a way that doesn't command unrealistic expectations of people.

 

Dude, it's a Harry Potter discussion. Take some fucking Midol and have a nap.

This coming from someone who's made some of the dumbest posts on the entire forum?

It is when they're fighting for their lives and depending on his help. Which he promised to give them. He knew leaving meant the possibility of never coming back.

They do.

No one ever said or implied this. You are an idiot.

Any other time during DH, sure, but he'd already done it once. How would there be any evidence when there was a time-skip? Your post is filled with so much stupid it makes my head hurt. Just because they're ostensibly happy doesn't mean he's a better person at all, or that he's stopped any of his bullshit.

Your attempts at comedy are painfully bad.

They might have died, but he didn't care when he left. They were on one of the most dangerous missions of the whole war.

Oh boo hoo. he immediately regretted being a huge asshole. Good for him. It's all okay now.

You don't have to actively endanger someone to leave them without caring whether they live or die. Stealing their stuff or giving information would, by definition, not be "leaving them to die," but actively aiding in their death. It's like explaining basic math to a child.

Why should he be excused if Hermione managed to stay?

It never would have made Harry abandon his friends, though.

You're gonna need some sauce for that.

That's the point. He's a bad friend.

That makes no sense whatsoever. He could be naturally gifted enough to scrape some E's without extra effort.

Fine, he worked hard at something that was fun.

Harry is consistently more driven than Ron, and asks for help with homework far less, while doing better in an academic subject he likes and excels in.

Fuck off. You wrote an insulting post because I don't have a boner for one of your favorite characters, it's clear why you like him so much. Don't try and seem reasonable at the end of a horrible post.

 

afrojack, I'm not mknote and I don't have a boner for Ron (I don't even like him very much), but straight up, I think your post was wrong. I don't give enough of a fuck about this whole thing to go through your posts point-by-point, but...

Ron was being influenced by Voldemort. Harry sees a trace of red in his eyes at one point. That isn't a fucking wuss reason. And his actions hardly make him utter scum. The locket exacerbates your flaws and Ron's flaw is his jealousy, a flaw that lends itself to distancing yourself from the people you are jealous of. As was stated previously, once he left the locket's thrall, he immediately regretted it.

That seems like reason enough for Harry and Hermione to forgive him.

You tell mknote to take a fucking Midol, but you sound a hell of a lot more pissy about the whole conversation than he did.

 

I never took anyone's post regarding an honest opinion about a character personally. If someone's going to call me an idiot for disliking Ron and finding him to be an unworthy friend, I'll probably respond in an angry way.

If you think my post is wrong, that's fine. But you also didn't start a post with "fuck you and the horse you rode in on" just because I expect more of Ron than you.

He had Voldemort influencing his mind, yes, but he also left because he wanted food and shelter. He complained about how long it was taking to find the phylacteries of the most powerful wizard around, when they'd been hunting for just a few months. Like defeating him in less than a year of concerted effort is slow.

And he's a terrible friend in more places than just DH. To Harry and Hermione.

 

The fact remains that he complained about those things while being influenced by Voldemort's soul. I think its safe to assume he wouldn't have been nearly as confrontational without it.

 

It said he was worse under the influence of the Locket, which shows that he was consistently a douche during the hunt. And either way, I don't really see the Locket as an excuse. Yes, it exacerbates what's there, but it still has to be there to begin with, and Ron still had to choose to say the words he said and do the things he did. He's still the one ultimately responsible for his actions, and it's less of an excuse when Hermione persevered.

And like I said, it's more than just DH.

 

You don't see one of the darkest artifacts known to wizards - created by tearing you own soul apart whilst commiting murder, a piece of magic that prevents you from ever passing on if not destroyed - influencing your very thoughts, twisting them, as an excuse for dickish behaviour? Im with mknote on this one: You certainly have very high expectations of people.

 

Most of us here agree that this is a great moment for Ron. But this is before he abandons Harry twice, one only three or four months later. Ron, sadly, just doesn't accomplish much at all after this moment.

Still an awesome moment for Ron. Somewhat ruined by the fact he does nothing great afterward.

---

As for locket, as has been as said by afrojack, it made worse what was already there. That's from canon. What Ron was feeling was already present. It came out quicker. That's all.

 

It's an excuse for some dickish behavior, not abandoning your best friend and the girl you claim to love when they need you most after insulting them in the most hurtful ways you know how. Beyond that, he chose to act that way even when he knew how the Locket was affecting him, and he was like that even while he wasn't wearing it. They all suffered with the Locket, but the other two never even approached Ron's level of douchery.

 

I don't agree. Ron certainly was the most confrontational of the trio in those scenes, but Harrys behaviour certainly didn't help matters. Add the fact that Harry didn't really have any plan beyond: Lets destroy unknown objects in unknown locations. I
t's easy to see conflict brewing, with them taking turns at being influenced by the Horkrux as well.
Plus, Ron was the one with the most to lose: Some of his family was directly exposed to Death Eaters with no real to get out. This probably made him easier to influence, he had time to go camping while Harry figured out the details of his plan.

 

Weeks had passed with no further progress. This as well as the locket's influence fucked Ron's mind. He was worried about his family and his sister was tortured by Death Eaters. And he tried to return as soon as possible but cooulldn't. And

From the Deathley Hallows;

"Come here." he said and he led the way, brushed snow from the rock's surface, and held out his hand for the Horcrux. When Ron offered the sword, however, Harry shook his head.

"No you should do it."

"Me?" said Ron, looking shocked. "Why?"

"Because you got the sword out of the pool. I think it's supposed to be you."

He was not being kind or generous. As certainly as he had known that the doe was benign, he knew that Ron had to be the one to wield the sword. Dumbledore had at least taught Harry something about certain kinds of magic, of the incalculable power of certain acts.

"I'm going to open it," said Harry, "and you will stab it. Straightaway okay? Because whatever's in there will put up a fight. The bit of Riddle in the Diary tried to kill me."

"How are you going to open it?" asked Ron. He looked terrified

"I'm going to ask it to open, using Parseltongue," said Harry.

The answer came so readily to his lips that he thought that he had always known it deep down: Perhaps it had taken his recent encounter with Nagini to make him realize it. He looked at the serpentine S, inlaid with glittering green stones: It was easy to visualize it as a miniscule snake, curled upon the cold rock.

"No!" said Ron. "Don't open it! I'm serious!"

"Why not?" asked Harry. "Let's get rid of the damn thing, it's been months -"

"I can't, Harry, I'm serious - you do it -"

"But why?"

"Because that thing's bad for me!" said Ron, backing away from the locket on the rock. "I can't handle it! I'm not making excuses, for what I was like, but it affects me worse than it affects you and Hermione, it made me think stuff - stuff that I was thinking anyway, but it made everything worse. I can't explain it, and then I'd take it off and I'd get my head straight again, and then I'd have to put the effing thing back on - I can't do it Harry!"


------------------------


"I wanted to come back the minute I'd Disapparated, but I walked straight into a gang of Snatchers, Hermione, and I couldn't go anywhere!"

"A gang of what?" asked Harry, as Hermione threw herself down into a chair with her arms and legs crossed so tightly it seemed unlikely that she would unravel them for several years.

"Snatchers," said Ron. "They're everywhere - gangs trying to earn gold by rounding up Muggle-borns and blood traitors, there's a reward from the Ministry for everyone captured. I was on my own and I look like I might be school age; they got really excited, thought I was a Muggle-born in hiding. I had to talk fast to get out of being dragged to the Ministry."

"What did you say to them?"

"Told them I was Stan Shunpike. First person I could think of."

"And they believed that?"

"They weren't the brightest. One of them was definitely part troll, the smell of him..."

Ron glanced at Hermione, clearly hopeful she might soften at this small instance of humor, but her expression remained stony above her tightly knotted limbs.

"Anyway, they had a row about whether I was Stan or not. It was a bit pathetic to be honest, but there were still five of them and only one of me, and they'd taken my wand. Then two of them got into a fight and while the others were distracted I managed to hit the one holding me in the stomach, grabbed his wand, Disarmed the bloke holding mine, and Disapparated. I didn't do it so well. Splinched myself again" - Ron held up his right hand to show two missing fingernails: Hermione raised her eyebrows coldly - "and I came out miles from where you were. By the time I got back to that bit of riverbank where we'd been ... you were gone."

-------------------------

If anything, people should be sympathetic towards Ron.

 

Harry may not have helped matters, but that wasn't my point. My point was that Ron is the worst of the three, with or without the Locket.

And what would he have done for his family but hunt Horcruxes with Harry? For all his bluster about wanting to protect family, he leaves his best chance to do that behind. he can't even face his family after he abandons Harry, because they would have been disgusted with him, whether they'd known about the Locket or not. He goes and hides in Bill's Cottage because he knows how utterly fail he was.

Harry's plan was really no worse than Dumbledore's considering how much information he had and the fact that he was using the plan Dumbledore told him too. There's also the fact that Ron knew what he was signing up for when he left. He knew how hard it would be to find and destroy them.

In the scene where he leaves, his friends even tell him he should take the Locket off and reconsider, and he rejects this. I get that the Locket is bad juju, but Ron was being a bad friend even without wearing it. Putting it on just made it easier to act on the thoughts he was already having. That abandoning Harry was ever even an option in his mind for the Locket to exacerbate is already bad enough. A true friend in that situation (having promised to aid someone to the death) would have grumbled and kept going, like Hermione, not given up and had a hissy fit because it was hard.

EDIT:

This. This is Ron confirming my point. "tuff that I was thinking anyway." He knows he can't make excuses for his shit. He knows how terrible a friend he's been, and that he doesn't really deserve forgiveness for something so bad.

 

What the... are you serious? You're telling me that everyone who doesn't completely agree with Harry is a terrible friend?

 

I never said anything of the sort, so no.

 

You didn't?

 

He's a terrible friend for thinking so often about splitting when he promised to stay, not for disagreeing. In that passage, he's talking about things he was thinking besides disagreement with the plan. He's talking about the constant thoughts of leaving his friends behind and deriding Harry for being incompetent in his journey while contributing nothing.

EDIT: Not just thoughts either, I suppose, since he was acting that way and saying those things the whole time, with or without the Locket. His disagreement wasn't the problem, it was how he chose to express it and let it overwhelm him.

 

So what, people think about stupid things all the time. That doesn't make them terrible persons. You can't condemn a person for contemplating a course of action.
You seem to think that Ron would have left them if there had been no locket, that he would just have stayed a bit longer, but I don't think thats the case.