joshuafaramir, making assertions about the nature of the world is a little premature. Certainly, the canonical Westeros is a setting inimical to people who treasure virtue over victory, but Harry Potter is just the opposite. There's no way of empirically knowing which side of the sliding scale of idealism and cynicism this tends towards just yet. Even if Westeros is the dystopia we've all come to know and (somewhat grudgingly) love, it doesn't change what Harry believes. His first instinct when confronted with injustice is going to be to jump headfirst into the situation and resolve it himself, not conquer the world and institute a radical paradigm shift. The road from the first solution to the latter is long, filled with blood and sacrifice, and Aeryn's suffering is likely but the first of a great many steps on it.

Red Aviary, your name wouldn't happen to be from Post's TBE, would it?

 

You know, what will Cercei's relationship with Harry be like after Joff takes the throne? Right now Joff is her favorite, but what about after she can't deny the fact that he's a monster in human skin?

 

Yes well that is true. Harry would most probably likely to pursue the idealistic route of changing the system from the inside instead of a complete overhaul. What I'm saying is that what Harry "should" do in ASIoFverse.

An initial rule by magic and might and then an eventual fade off the picture when everything he's worked comes to fruition. As much as Harry would like to pursue his idealistic goals, there will come a time when he realizes the futility of his efforts and the influence of Westeros upon him.

The only question is will he bend and accept reality, or strain and break in his desperate attempt to make his ideals into a reality.

All Under Heaven-

 

It's not like our history is any different. The middle ages have gone through a huge amount of wars and famine, with people constantly inventing new things to make it easier to kill more people ( better cannons and guns), as well as better tools to reduce the amount of labour required on farms and workshops.

 

Yes. The name left an impression on me as I was reading it. When I wanted a name change to leave behind my old username and everything attached to it, that's what came to mind.

On Westeros and the medieval stasis it's in, didn't Sam in one of the books say after some research that their historical timescale was way off? That what they thought was thousands of years was actually a lot less? The screwed up seasons they have are probably to blame for that. Maybe if the seasons ever normalize (with the defeat of the Great Other maybe?) that would help to end the stasis.

 

I don't know, honestly. It seems too simple, especially for Martin's universe, to have a clearly cut delineation of good and evil, fire and ice. One winning would be just as destructive as the other; they're kind of the Fae Courts of the Dresden Files that way. Not really good or evil, just... primal and incomprehensible forces. We don't know all that much about the setting, either, beyond occasional hints and very heavily biased religious propaganda from Melisandre and her ilk. Maybe the reason Westeros hasn't really slipped its medieval shackles is because there's an elemental apocalypse every so often? Man gets too innovative, the time of prophecy rolls around, and the 'reset civilization' button gets mashed. Neither side truly wins permanently, and humanity always loses.

 

That would make sense. How can you have an accurate measure of time if there's not objective measure you can use over the long term? Our definition is based on the cycle of the seasons, but that's not possible in Westeros. I mean, you could use the day/night cycle, but then how would you plot years? I could see a couple of mistakes being made over the course of decades adding or subtracting entire years from the calendar.

 

No, we don't base it on the seasons, nor do we count days. We base it on our planet making a revolution around the sun. You can see it by the passage of stars throughout the year. The stars you see in January are very different from those you see in July because the planet is on the other side of the sun and we're seeing the other half of the universe.

The seasons are only a secondary effect of our passage around the sun.

It's similar in Westeros. They count the year by the movement of the stars.

So, why are Westeros' seasons of irregular length and not on a yearly cycle? Maybe they have a strange orbit or a wobbly axis instead of our fixed axial tilt. Maybe it's a binary star system or some other exotic astronomical explanation. Maybe it's magic; that'd be my bet.

I finally found that GRRM interview again:

 

I agree with this post. If HP makes a printing press I would be surprised.

He would know why people get sick and more general knowledge that the majority of Westeros would be ignorant of.

For example: If an earthquake happens the masses would assume a 'judgment from the gods' but Harry would say tectonic plates, and when asked what a tectonic plate is Harry would be like "Err...?"

To the point of changing Westeros through Harry's morality; I see Westeros changing Harry far more than the reverse. When Harry ordered mutilation for the rapist (which would be considered barbaric in a modern society) that was a huge shift in HP's morals.

 

Not by Westerosi standards. It's more like Harry Potter's morals have influenced Harry Baratheon's morals, rather then them being the exact same.

 

Hmm... this "Winter Is Coming" theme in ASoIF might be similar to Asimov's Nightfall. Every thousand years or so, a catastrophic event happens that resets the civilization. The only history recorded for the event is hidden underneath the religious ramblings of a holy book.

 

Tehnological development can only really begin when there is a food surplus that arises from modern agriculture techniques. This is because a surplus of food allows for some of the population to engage in activities other than farming/hunting/gathering, which in turn gives rise to technology. The domestication of animals and cereal crops did not occur until about 8,000-7,000 BC IIRC, so it was not until then that there would be a food surplus which could support non food-making professions.

 

So many ideas... Simple is best. The author would have Harry make his own wand and then use magic to "modernize" Westeros no?

That's what Harry would most likely do if he had access to his magic.

 

Here's the thing though right, Harry doesn't have all the memories of his past life, nor is he even living through them, as has been said, it's like he's watching a movie. And here's the thing, just because you've watched an action film, doesn't mean you suddenly know how to fight, or if you watch Sci-fi, you don't suddenly decide that you can make spaceship.

 

I don't really think that modernization at the scale you're talking about is really within the scope of this fic. Mostly because it's a retarded idea and this fic isn't retarded.

 

I could see bureaucratic/administrative modernisation happening: the kind of things that any intelligent person could implement, once they had the idea, like the idea of a civil service, or the notion of a well trained standing army. Perhaps some financial innovations, which Harry is pretty well-placed to utilise given his potential access to Lannister wealth. Though the Iron Bank of Braavos seems pretty advanced already. I'm pretty sure they're using double entry book-keeping.

But technological modernisation is off the cards, I think, except for the most basic of things.

 

I find myself not really interested in how he changes society.
I wince when I see 'modernize' so I'm going to try not to use the word.

Technological changes?
In general, I get nervous of continuing to read any fic where Harry rebels against the technological status quo. All I can hear in those fics are OMG Look how backwards these wizards and witches are! They are so dumb they still use quills. It's called a pen and paper, duh!

Social changes?
With tech changes comes social changes, so I have to mention here: If there are any social changes, it nearly always turns into a preach-fest by the author on their personal, self-righteous, and black and white opinions concerning the 'obvious faults' of the world. I feel we're pretty safe from that here, so I'm not too worried.


Look, Westeros is High fantasy and close to the middle ages. The middle ages weren't the best, I know. Peasantry was bad. Tech was sometimes even worse than ancient times.

But that's the setting of the fic, so let's stay there.

 

Some of it would make good historical sense, though. A lot of ASoIaF is inspired by the War of the Roses, which established the Tudor dynasty as the monarchs of England. The most famous of those monarchs being Henry VIII, under whose rule the civil service first started to develop into what it would one day become, led by Thomas Cromwell.

 

I don't think anyone here wants this story to become a story where Harry takes on the role of curing some kind of "white man's burden" - that is, bringing "civilization" to the "uncivilized masses". Harry isn't a muggle, he lived in a backwards wizardry society. Let's not forget Harry also lived to see the year 2100, meaning, he's probably seen more than printing presses and computer screens - he's probably seen things we don't even know about. He honestly has no idea how those things work, even at a fundamental level, because he's a wizard with just a little bit of muggle background.

BUT, the way I see things - when and if Harry comes to proper power as a ruler, I would expect him to have a very basic kind of logic in him:

IF he's not at war with some other lord, bleeding resources all over the place, et cetera, and he has a surplus to work with HE SHOULD be hiring people WHO CAN research these things. Harry knows how to properly deal with disease (hopefully! Wizards do use soap, right? Gosh, he's got to start getting a lye factory going? Oh wait, ...scourgify? Hm, well, Harry has probably no idea what chemicals even make up soap that won't tear your skin off.), set up schools and he was a leadership figure in his time of some sort... Harry should hire advisors and academic-types to research these problems for him. He can give them his futuristic ideas and his little minions can figure out the details?

Now, granted, if Harry isn't in a position to do any of that - either because he's still a prince and not a lord of some kind (and remains that way for the rest of the story?), or because he's got no extra resources to waste on bettering the state of things in the world - then it's not going to happen. But, if time and resources exist for him to use, I would honestly expect Harry to follow through. Why wouldn't he want some of the "modern conveniences" that existed in his alternate-past? Unless those comforts are so abstract to him at this point he doesn't care... Right, I'm rambling again, but the point is - Harry can't "fix" anything if he isn't put in a position to command. And even if he is, who's to say he'll the money to do any of the most basic improvements he knows ot.