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What does DLP feel about Canon Harry?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alexx, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    At that age I'd guess it would depend on what you're comparing them in. I'd expect them both to be good at magic in general, but hardly experts in every field. So they'd each be better at some things than the other.

    Tom might be likely to win in a fight, if only because a larger percentage of his time was going towards dangerous curses and whatnot.

    Albus might prevail in an academic setting. Maybe in a duel if he had ample time to prepare and catch Tom by surprise.

    I view Albus as more of a researcher. He's curious about magic, he wants to explore it, forge new paths through it. He wants to study Alchemy under Nicolas Flamel and discover new uses for dragon's blood. He wants to know everything for the sake of knowing.

    Tom wants to reshape the world through power and might. He's going to be focused on that, and ways to keep from dying while he does it. He might forge new paths, but it's going to be in pursuit of his goals. He's going to make a horcrux at sixteen.

    Later some of this will shift. Albus will meet Gellert, Arianna will die, Tom will kill his relatives and move further down his own path, etc.

    But at 15/16? They're both brilliant, powerful kids with different focuses who probably excelled in different areas while being good at everything.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  2. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    In pure academics, I would bet on Albus, in fight on Tom - he grew up and survived as a freak kid in orphanage at a time where kids were hardened criminals at 13-15, girls were prostitutes at the same age, gangs of kids took protection money from older adults, and a group of older guys frequently beat, tortured and raped other kids. That + his sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies would grant Tom some good instincts for a fight - he would go straight for jugular so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  3. kostigan

    kostigan Temporarily Banhammered

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    I wouldn't put Harry in the same slacker category as Ron. Won-Won seems uninterested in any other aspect of life besides quidditch, food, sleeping, wizard chess and trying to woo Hermione by being a dick toward her.

    Harry is your normal, a bitt above average student, loves practical work, disslikes theory and homework. He definitly isn't a prodigy with an instinctive grasp for magic like Dumbledore or Voldemort. Or a workoholick driven by goals that were planed years ahead like Hermione. He was just going with a flow like most of the student body, not really wishing to be superior then the others, maybe even unconciously trying to blend in (IMO lack of the ambition is that flaw in his character, but that's understandable if you recall his upbirth). There must be some middle ground between a slacker and worckoholick and Harry was usually there and ok maybe sometimes edging toward slacker, but that's your normal student.

    Of course, after fourth and especially fifth year, the logical thing for him should've been to change his habbits, maybe drop out of quidditch team and start studying things outside of his year or Hogwarts curriculum. He had some talent and could've squeeze something out of it, but that wasn't the direction author choose.
     
  4. Aerylife

    Aerylife Not Equal

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    Thats the problem though, barely above average vs a genius wizard who started becoming IMMORTAL at 16 and winning due to Deus Ex Fuck You Readers pissed some people off.
     
  5. Redeye

    Redeye Penultimate Lurker DLP Supporter

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    I'll take Albus on reputation, though I'd imagine Tom isn't very far behind. I mean Tom did manage to make a Horcrux around that age.


    The real question is, after Albus/Tom at 1st/2nd, where do others rank? James could arguably be 3rd best student(that we know of) to grace the halls of Hogwarts. He became an animagus, supposedly gifted at transfiguration, helped create the Marauder's Map. Granted 2 of those 3 he had help from his friends, but still James' in school resume only pales in comparison to Albus/Tom. Maybe Snape could vie for 3rd as well.
     
  6. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    How are Fred and George better wizards than Harry? Harry was teaching them spells when they were in their 7th year. Thats embarrassing. They weren't even as good as Cedric.

    Now, it is said that Voldemort went through many, many power rituals, where as Dumbledore has refrains from these dark rituals.

    This implies that Dumbledore is more power naturally, that is, he was born with more power than Tom Riddle. Should Dumbledore go through all those power rituals himself, he'd be pretty bad ass.

    However the prophecy and Lily's sacrifice makes Harry more powerful than both of them. Harry and Voldemort can kill Dumbledore, but Dumbledore can't kill either of them. And Voldemort would have to kill himself before killing Harry.

    If Harry goes bezerk and starts killing people, Dumbledore cannot do anything but imprison him. A dementor's kiss, going by the Prophecy, will not work.
     
  7. Photon

    Photon Order Member

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    In battle magic they may be behind but in area of potions including innovation they invent stuff on the massive scale. IIRC most or all stuff in their shop was invented on their own what is one of few signs that wizarding world is not completely stagnant.
     
  8. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I'd argue that you're looking at different categories there.

    Wizards like James Potter and Severus Snape were brilliant and powerful, but in a more traditional way.

    I see them as the kids who were making straight As in school, who were talented in their areas, and who would have been very powerful men who reached the pinnacle of whatever careers they chose (had they lived long enough to manage it).

    They were probably in the Top 2-5% or so of wizards in their generation.

    But they weren't prodigies like Albus and Tom. Apples and Oranges man.
     
  9. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I wouldn't put it as a strict hierarchy, more a series of levels. Assuming they all reach their potential or have already done so and that their talents/weaknesses are averaged:

    Level 1 - Dumbledore, Voldemort, Grindelwald and Nicolas Flamel.
    Level 2 - Snape, Hermione and possibly Lily. Ollivander, maybe.
    Level 3 - The Marauders (minus Peter), Fred/George, Flitwick and McGonagall. Mad Eye Moody and Kingsley Shacklebolt. Bellatrix and a couple other Death Eaters may be here as well.
    Level 4 - Harry, Draco, Neville, Cedric Diggory/Krum, the majority of the Death Eaters and most of the teachers and the Order.
    Level 5 - Ron, Luna, most background characters.
    Level 6 - Crabbe & Goyle. You can guess the rest.
     
  10. kostigan

    kostigan Temporarily Banhammered

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    I, honestly, never thought Harry would defeat Voldemort in a fair fight, even before those last few books. I hoped he would do that by being more resorcefull or that he'll somehow outsmart him. Or by stumbling on some new ability somewhere along the way like in Ectomancer (oh how I wish it would update). But even the hole power-of-love crap is better solution then those fics where Harry spends summer in his multi-level trunk with a time-turner and a Dark Arts Library of Congress.

    Oh, and in that whole 16-year-old Albus vs 16-year-old Riddle thing, I would still put my money on Albus. Tom was more ruthless yes, but Dumbledore was the creative one.
     
  11. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I've seen this, or something similar to it, before. I still find it neat.

    Not sure I agree with where you've put everyone (but most of them seem accurate). I also don't think it's a pure power thing (I know you haven't said that it is). There's intelligence and skill and whatnot to factor in. Some might argue that's all it is, and there's no power aspect. *shrug*

    Either way Dumbledore and Riddle are on another level from other characters we directly interacted with during the series.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  12. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    Voldemort had zero chance of defeating Harry. He couldn't touch Harry. So he used Harry's blood a massive mistake which made certain Harry couldn't be killed until Voldemort died. So all the odds were in Harry's favour since the beggining.
     
  13. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Ability wise I also think Harry plateaued in Goblet of Fire. I do wish the last books had him working harder with magic. He doesn't have to be in Dumbledore's or Voldemort's tier, but I'd say having him be comparable to his father, Lupin or Sirius when they were his age would be enough.

    Despite that lack of drive and the moodiness in the last few books though, I always liked Harry. And I think that fanfic writers should always start with canon Harry's characteristics and build on that rather than wipe the slate clean and make him Riddle 2.0 or something.
     
  14. InfernoCannon

    InfernoCannon Seventh Year

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    Harry taught the twins, but it's never elaborated on how much they particularly cared for that particular branch of magic in the first place - they were more likely to teach themselves amusing jinxes and hexes than they were spells which could be used in a serious fight, because that's what interested them. Come OotP, with the threat of Voldemort looming overhead, they probably decided that learning how to defend themselves from a guy who's faced Voldemort before and survived is a smart idea.

    Then there's the number of assorted magical devices and confectioneries they produced even before leaving Hogwarts, such as the fake wands, the ton tongue toffees and their store's entire range of products. They produce items which, from our narrow view of the setting, seem innovative and unique.

    The twins were better wizards because they worked hard, and managed to achieve a number of magical feats that were beyond the average wizard. I have no doubt that had he applied himself, Harry would have done so as well, albeit in a different field of magic. The Patronus Charm was an exceptional piece of magic, but it's the only one Harry has tied to his name - successes on such a magnitude as that were not common occurrences. To me, it suggests that Harry had the capacity to be a great wizard, even if it was never something we saw come to fruit in canon.
     
  15. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    Harry's potential is Level 2. He was the most skilled in Hogwarts in his era. Hermione herself has said many times how great Harry is.
     
  16. Redeye

    Redeye Penultimate Lurker DLP Supporter

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    I'm not saying they are on Albus/Tom's level, but if you had to rank top 5 wizards/witches in the HP-verse, while in school, based on what we know James is next in line. Granted there are a large number of unknowns, but it's just a fun thing to consider.

    Oh and on another note, Fred/George are absolutely better at magic than Harry. Harry was better at DADA, but in terms of potions, transfiguration, charms and just spell work in general the twins come out ahead.

    EDIT: was getting my response all confused >_>
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  17. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    In DADA, maybe. In everything else, no. That's why I averaged it all.
     
  18. Alexx

    Alexx Card Captored and buttsecksed

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    They make joke products so what so does the people who run Zonko's. Fred and George didn't apply themselves in school and wasted their time playing stupid practical jokes. If Harry hadn't given them the money to get started what would they have done? Nothing, that's what, without Harry they'd still be living at home sponging off their parents. Those idiots were even testing their experimental products on school children.
     
  19. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Or they'd have gotten a loan. You know, because that's what regular people do when they need money to start a business and don't have a handy charitable rich person.

    Also:

    1) They focused on what they're good at and had a definite goal in mind while they were doing it. That puts them above the vast majority of teenagers.
    2) Practical jokes that adult wizards found difficult to get rid of.
    3) See above.
    4) Magic can cure just about anything. Hell, they play football on flying sticks that go at 150mph several hundred feet in the air for fun. Anything that went wrong could easily be fixed by Madame Pomfrey.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    You're assuming that the prophecy was true. Just because Voldemort took it literally doesn't mean it was actually true.

    Are you trolling now? You might convince me that Hermione doesn't belong on Level 2 (if we take the "levels" thing seriously), but not that Harry should be there with her. There just isn't enough in canon to justify it.
     
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