A point is well made, but personally, I wouldn't enjoy a story about a hedge fundy taking over the economy of the wizarding world, same as I would hate to read Harry Baratheon making money of Pyramid schemes and all the other shity ideas that make money from those not smart enough in Westeros.

 

Entire story about this would be unreadable, but as small subplot (or maybe only mentioned) it may be interesting.

 

If Harry is to modernize Westeros, he's going to have to give technology that can make him superior on the field of battle a good thought, because the more wealthy he gets the more houses will unite against him. Could Westeros withstand Teeners Targaryen with the full power of Essos behind her with most of the kingdoms divided by war?

Could be readable if he can cleverly win against overwhelming forces imo.

 

Okay, just to chime in once on the whole modernisation thing.

All Harry would need to do is invent the cannon. Suddenly the entire way war is waged changes and gunpowder weaponry becomes much more feasible. It's not even that difficult, especially if he can use magic to make the steel more durable.

 

Basic idea may not be hard - but he probably knows nothing how high quality steel and gunpowder is produced.

I know a lot about programming, computers etc but I would be unable to reinvent electronics, I doubt that I would be able to create even small scale generator of electricity.

 

He doesn't know, but there will be people out there who do. He has the idea and the money. With that he can find people to do the hard work for him.

 

This train of discussion is almost trying to turn the story into a fix it plot which I think should be avoided. So far it seems like Harry has little interest in using his magic to actively improve the quality of life for the people of Westeros other than those close to him, the conversation he has with Tyrion not withstanding.

 

Agreed. As interesting as this is for discussion purposes, it's not something that reads very well. The only story I've really seen it done well in is Codex Alera, and the invention was catapults.

 

I disagree. I won't hesitate to say I don't like A Song of Ice and Fire that much. Any effort to fix it would be welcome on my end. Though as I've said I don't think technological improvement is the way to go.

 

It took 400 years of continuos warfare and Europe's best military cientist to transform the cannon in a weapon best than an a bow. What you forget that until the 18th century muskets, the composite bow as the most efficient weapon in the world. And until the mid 19th century, the bow was by far much morr efficient individually, but it takes years to train to use one effectively. A cannon is simply shit in a open field battle, and 13 an 14 century cannons could fire 3 to 5 times in a day, with a horrible aim. And they were a pain to move.

Gunpowder isn't magic powder that simply goes caboom and thr whole world trembles. Also, today explosives and weapons use nitroglycerin, much more powerful.

But let's go with the cannons, which exact format and measures should it have? The ammunition, which kind and size? How much gunpowder, what does is it gunpowder made of, and how to obtain it? A excellent manga called Driftwrs had a similar ideia, but the one who used it were military genius with tons of experience making gunpowder and using it.

And the reason he doesn't use his magic is simple. Because he would be hunted and despised, or he would have to become another Voldermot, killing everyone who opposes him and becoming a monster. So all changes must be made politically, then socially(culture and psychology) and then applied. Another manga that address is Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, is the best in this subject and Dirfters is quite good in this kind of thing too.

 

I think you underestimate the traumatic effects of cannons on an advancing force and many conquered civilizations in Africa and the Americas would disagree on the power of 16th century artillery against bows.

By no means do I want Harry to introduce world changing technology. He's a damn wizard not an engineer. He knows as much about modern (or 17th century for that matter) muggle warfare as any other wizard. A lot of that has to do with there being no reason for a wizard to concern themselves with technology when you can wave a wand and literally magic what you want. If it was Arthur Weasley instead of Harry Potter it might make a little more sense.

 

Nevermind cannon, Rome conquered the known world through discipline and superior technology, and none of that was gunpowder technology.

The Unsullied exhibit some of the old Greek phalanx strategies and are outfitted similarly, but that's as close as it's gotten in GoT to disciplined warfare. Rome also had mobile artillery catapults, balistae and scorpion field artillery, which could shoot a six foot long iron spear through a rank of horse cavalry.

 

Agree with this. If Cxjenious really wants to go the way of introducing more modern ideas/technology then Harry trying the idea of a proper standing army would fit the bill imo. Both because of what comes along with it in terms of logistical/organisational sophistication etc (bringing in other advances alongside), but also because of all the Houses, the Lannisters would seem to be most able to do it with their high wealth.

 

It seems to me that the feudal system of GoT would get in the way of devising a proper Rome-like administration.

 

They were talking about war-machines and war-tactics, not administration.

 

Read the post about standing armies.

 

one thing that everyone seems to forget when coming up with these kinds of ideas - and i mention it in part because i just got through reading 3 different stories by different authors for different fandoms that do it - is the source of knowledge and it's extent.

do you know how to make or do any of that stuff? would the main character (in this case harry potter) know how to do/make any of that stuff, the formations or training needed? how many years or decades would it take to implement if he didn't know the details and had to work via incremental refinement over time?

i had a big long bit here about how little harry has reason to know anything relevant since
a)he lived as a wizard for over 100 years.
b)he can't even remember the details of his own life let alone some anecdotal knowledge, ie how a long dead civilisation (that he may never have been educated about) kicked ass.

and finally
c) why technology when magic?

but basically it boils down to stop trying to change the world. harry has more important concerns right now in the form of stabilising the political, moral and social problems of the nation rather than trying to make better war in a time of peace.

 

A small, well armored and extremily well trained professional division of soldiers or two leading the feudal armies would wreck the enemy. One using crossbow and another using Swiss Pike Wall style would crash anything, specially using the feudal troops as vanguards and buffer, becoming the anvil, while the heavy cavalry becomes the hammer. 3 very sucessuful, and fairly simple, military strategies made to work against this type of enemy. One curb-stomp after another.

Flexibility, insanely strong defence, great against cavalry and both heavily aromored and lightly armored infantry, and a great encircling tatic all in one, that can be changed to different situations. If he added dornish light cavalry with skirmish abilities to chase and harass enemy archers and lost troops, it would be perfect.

 

Standing armies of professional soldiers cost a lot of money. Westeros is feudal society where the nobility don't even pay taxes and what money the crown has is from their own land holdings. Until Harry inherits Casterly Rock or implement some wide ranging economic and taxation reforms that will surely be opposed by entire nobility, he can't really afford such a professional army.

Rome conquered half the known world through organization and food production. At any point throughout its history Rome had enemies that fought better and won more battles, but Rome always prevailed in the end because it could replace its losses quickly while its enemies generally could not. Carthage being the most famous example of this.

Food production enabled a large population and organization enabled Rome to turn that population into citizen armies quickly. It wasn't superior technology or discipline that enabled Rome to come out on top, though these things obviously helped. What Westeros really needs to do is invade and conquer some of the weaker parts of Essos. That would ensure a continued food supply even during winter and help change the feast or famine cycle they've got going on. It shouldn't be that hard considering what we've seen of Essos consist entirely of small city states with little sign of any larger alliances.

Anyways GoT is supposed to be modeled on the War of the Roses, and the better medieval militaries would crush Roman armies.

 

Towards the end of the republic they had a large population of basically peasants who did little bar live of grain subsidies. Their votes didn't count I think?. Joining the legions was pretty much their only way out of that, (serve twenty years and get some land, plus Rome it'self would provide weapons and armor). On top of that they could for a fairly large period of their history call on the other Italian cities who funded their own armies. That and growing control over trade in the Mediterranean were the main reasons I think, been a while since I studied this.

As far as a SoIaF, I think King's landing is the only place with something even approaching this, possibly Oldtown and maybe Lannisport. But considering the majority of the place is bound in feudal servitude the chances of having a large base population to build up legions (from Asterix ect) rather than the landed armies they fielded prior to Marius are pretty slim. And the main advantage that the Roman's had was that they fought as a unit, compared to the Gauls who were all about personal glory. That said plenty of Roman armies were smashed by Germans and Gauls ect. Really it comes down to how you use your forces.

As far as modernizing Westros I'd lose interest if this was the case, for the same reason I started losing interest in Wheel of Time when that guy build a proto-type Steam engine. It starts to lose it's charm when that happens.