It doesn't matter who Zilean is against. As long as they actually engage on Zilean when he bombs, then anyone can beat a Zil in trades because he has nothing left to offer for 10s after a double bomb.

Take your pick of any AD and they'll be wrecking Zilean as long as they have some life steal.

 

The point of Jayce not allowing the bomb to blow up was to force pressure on the tower; the point of making the bomb blow up on your own minions is to push the wave so they over-extend to make an easy gank. That wasn't going to happen here, Zilean is pushing the wave so he can roam without losing CS, so you want to stay away from the minions to force him to choose roam or CS, not both, which by the way is what happened in the match.

You have that comparison backwards, the point and click usually has less damage than the skillshot (risk vs reward mechanics) but in this case it's the reverse. Perhaps I was giving Reginald too much credit, but Ahri would have been more effective in that particular case and fits the comp much better (assuming they were going for some kind of hyper-aggressive focus on killing the enemy carries, instead of this ridiculous "put the game on turtle's back" strategy) with her aggressive early power and late-game scaling+utility.

The point of that comp was to win before 10, your "breaking point" where Zilean is very useful. TSM wanted to win before anyone got their ults (Sona lolno's their whole team strategy).

 

Honestly, I don't even know what they were thinking with Annie Xin Zhao bottom. They pretty much have no synergy at all, and don't really excel at anything.

I just got back from watching Pacific Rim and C9 just destroyed Vel. They are looking so strong in NA.

 

I assume it was supposed to be an early kill lane - Annie passive + Xin Q and I suppose his E = lots of cc/slow power and in a weird way, some kind of burst. Add in Annie hitting 6 and I suppose that was the plan, probably explains the Zilean pick but it didn't work because Zuna actually played defensively for once.

Edit; And Regi throws it against CLG. Those calls man, I feel for Xpecial.

 

Yeah, but an early kill lane that's not really comparable to other early kill lanes.

Wildfeather mentioned the classic J4 + Leona, Rengar who can turn into a midgame split pusher, there's Taric + Pantheon, etc.

Let's also break down Xin Zhao in a duo lane. He has no ranged abilities at all. And he's supposed to be farming vs double ranged harass? Sona + Caitlyn is probably only behind Sona Ezreal in harass potency. Xin is going to be bleeding potion money to just stay in the lane.

The Zillean was an excellent choice for that passive, but it's a halfhearted fix. The jungler can just come camp Annie and Xin when they hit 6 until Sona and Caitlyn are also on par.

Zillean also isn't the champion that comes to mind for early game dominance. Jayce played it perfectly and Zillean was pretty much completely useless.

The quadrakill pretty much decided the game. And it was very early in the game if I remember correctly.

God TSM has fallen so far.

 

Other than the last time Regi got caught out, the game was lost by an inability to kill targets due to Thresh, Orianna, and Ezreal's kiting and the picks of TSM.

Other than the one engage top that was almost a come back (except they tried to reengage too hard and got Ori ulted) and the time in mid where CLG stood still attempting to attack Regi when he used Zhonya's like a pro, TSM couldn't keep up in regards to movement.

They'd engage on a target, and that target would be pulled away by a lantern. Then, due to Nocturne ulti, they couldn't even see the target. After all that cc and burst was then used up, CLG would simply win the long fight through kiting with Orianna's dissonance and Ez's Iceborn Gauntlets and having Irelia and Nocturne bully. This isn't even considering the many other annoying things a good thresh can do.

What did TSM have? Two of the most kiteable champs in the game, a TF who is versatile but has to stay too close to survive the extended team fights he's good at, a Caitlyn who has no burst to assist in securing kills, and a bloody Lulu who was designed to assist in team fights that finish in ten seconds rather than ones that take up most of a minute.

The game was honestly lost when they let Irelia take a lane that didn't have a giant crocodile in it. Irelia is simply the better champ later, and they had no way to shut her down (and also get Renekton his crocodile snacks that he needs to scale) if they let CLG extend laning phase to moon like they did by trying to have opposing 1v2 lanes.

I'm frustrated, because I feel like TSM has failed with this same strategy every game I've seen them use it because of disengage/reengage comps.

To win, they need to focus a bit more on asserting Wildturtle as a threat, they need to have Dyrus never touch a champion that needs early kills because getting them is his only weakness, and Reginald needs to learn that making plays and calling plays are two different things.

Also, he needs to learn to play another champ besides Karthus. He's great with the guy, but if it's banned, he goes for either Jayce or TF. With Jayce, he's fine, but if he plays TF his win rate is less than halved. I honestly think that's why TSM has been losing. Any team smart enough to ban Karthus has way too high of a chance to win vs. TSM.

Interestingly enough, the only team to beat TSM while Regi was playing Karthus was CLG, and one of the two games was extraordinarily close, and TSM would have won had Nien not performed a miracle of sheer awesome.

 

I definitely want to praise Bigfatjiji's Nocturne play. Oh my god those DARKNESS ults were amazing.

He's definitely not up to Meteos' level, but he's getting there. And he just started playing jungle recently.

Go CLG!

Now to watch the CLG vs Curse game to destroy my happy feelings =(

 

Is there a video of this, somewhere?

 

TSM vs CLG - Week 3, Day 3 - MLG Anaheim

Prepare your butt, it's a long one. Can go back if you want the picks & bans.

 

Gambit Gaming bringing out the Aatrox in their game vs MYM.

Pretty darn awesome.

 

And the Annie too. Nice to see her get some play as an AP mid rather than a trolly kill lane support.

 

As a support/jungle main having seen the latest PBE patch... I about died.

Bulwark removed
Aegis builds into Locket but loses the MR on the aura, Locket takes an armor & HP nerf, aura no longer affects minions & is MR/HP5 only.

So, I can see why Riot want to do this. But that still doesn't stop it being a bad idea. Currently the new Locket is terrible regarding gold efficiency. I can understand wanting to give burst mages some of their power back and giving junglers more options than SotAG > Aegis > Locket but, meh. That's Riots fault to me for nerfing carry junglers into the ground, hell, the only time I buy damage items these days is if I start to snowball hard, as a jungler at any rate.

From a support PoV... What the hell am I supposed to build now aside form becoming a wardbot again? Locket was great as a cheap, efficient item when you were sat around generating gold and doing sweet FA because you're in Gold and it's what people do. Now it just seems like we're venturing back to S2 what with the Oracle change, aside rrom the timer.

TLDR - Riot messing around with the 'meta' again, buffing/changing other MR items as Bulwark disappears.

Ultimately, PBE is PBE, and I'm interested to see where they take this, but, certainly very guarded on it - and I'm terrible at getting my point across, god damn.

 

Does anyone know where to find out the times for OGN's restreams?

 

How do I counter top lane Nasus @.@?

Played a ranked game as Jayce, enemy picks Nasus with a Rammus jungler. Vi came up and camped for the first few levels so I got two kills and double buffs because she popped Rammus into my Q-E as well. However, I couldn't stop Nasus from farming. Built armor shred and finished stacking Muramana at around 27 minutes ( ), pushed down tower really early roamed other lanes and picked up dragons and kills. Still, once teamfights broke out Nasus was a monster and we lost because of stupid throws, dives, splitpushing while our nexus was going down and some really stupid builds.

How do you deal with infinite scaling/sustain when it transitions out of laning?

 

Well, the best result, would be to keep him in lane(i.e., don't break tower, so he can safe-farm), but also prevent him from farming effectively in lane by constant harass. After all, he might be able to nullify the damage of one attack by regen + passive sustain on a Q hit, but two, three or even four attacks? Make him suffer for attempting to get any Q farm.

Realistically, that's hard to do, though. Constantly harassing him, and making sure to get your own farm, would result in pushing the lane, which ends up with the tower going down at some point. Probably sooner, rather than later. That, and the requirement to keep good ward coverage, in particular depending on which jungler there is.

All in all, if you can afford to just push, push, push, then it's the best way to deny him. I remember a sterling example where I was Nasus against a Teemo. He hard pushed me out, and took my tower. He then kept pushing me, since our jungler was forced to babysit bot heavily. Eventually, though he decided to roam, and I just caught up with blue buff and glacial giving me that cdr. Just farmed up my Q. Met him in the jungle later, and killed poor little Teemo in two Q's(plus intervening autos).

Either you push him hard, and/or win before the game goes on too long... or you have to hope his team is just bad and can't work well together. If not, then Nasus will become a force to be reckoned with if he's even remotely decent. That's the issue with a infinite-scaling champion though. Usually mediocre early, and subject to being pushed(in particular if Nasus and Veigar are trying to get Q-kills near exclusively), but if they get the opportunity, they will eventually become a threat even if they were losing early.

 

Having played Nasus top fairly a handful of times, each time against a differing match up, the one I definitely hard the hardest time with was Jax.

We traded fairly equally early, but around the time he hit 6 was when I started getting destroyed - I'd rushed a Glacial without really thinking about the fact Jax does a large portion of magic damage, so it's more my own fault than anything else, but I had tabi's too, so it was more the ult and empowered strike which were killing me.

We traded a few times, he eventually killed me twice without any help and left to go cause havoc elsewhere. I think this is where people make the mistake, leaving Nasus alone - It feels like you constantly want to be pushing him in and never giving him an opportunity to farm too much. I had my Gauntlet and visage not long after that and took 2 towers before joining my team where Jax was the only real threat.

It might be easier now what with the increased gold for deaths till you've died around 6 times rather than 4, and if you keep pushing him in and killing him I guess you get ahead and force a jungler response. My example's probably a bad one though, feel like I should've gone Visage first or at least grabbed a negatron and chain vest over Glacial/boots.

 

Your problem is summed up in that one sentence.

Don't roam. Don't rush Muramana. Don't push down tower unless you're going to keep the entire lane pushed. Build crit. Build LW. Eat his ass with alive with hyper-scaling Jayce.

Tryndamere, Jayce, and Ryze all dunk on Nasus because they can constantly murder him without caring about Wither or letting him farm at all.

 

Nasus? I play Morde (hue hue hue) because you can outsustain and harass him, and your all-in as a response to his is better. Your W will outshield his ult ticks, your Q will beat his Q (he HAS to go E to farm under tower at all, he will be in range of your E poke under his own tower) and your natural build punishes basically every possible Nasus build in the game. Outfarm, outsustain, outscale. Ward up and break his towers like Bane broke the bat, and when inevitable jungle pressure comes, make sure the team is taking dragon/mid/bot. But since this is a free lane for you early, you should basically be able to 2v1 vs a weak nasus and a tank jungle in the first place.

I just won a double jungler (as morde) game. Gold is ridiculous how bad people are sometimes (Nunu+Ww) but we pulled it off.

 

Well, Tryndamere cares quite a bit about Wither actually, and probably one of the few champions that gets affected by it the most.

But yeah, if you are far ahead, there's nothing wrong with securing Dragon, or a quick mid tower (if your minion wave is pushed). But, after that, you should really go back to your top lane. Ward their top jungle, and push down their second top turret. If you manage that (taking second turret), then Nasus won't be farmed enough in time for him to matter much. As for beating him in lane, that shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

 

Actually no. At early game, Trynd doesn't care about Wither at all. I've done Trynd vs Nasus/Malphite top frequently and always beaten them easily.

It's mainly about attacking when the CD is down or baiting them into using the slow to oom themselves. Since trynd doesn't need resources, he can just dick around all day to oom them.

On top of that, with a Shiv + Bilgewater, armor stacking and the CDR from it isn't that helpful either.

I'd also keep them push to tower and smack them whenever they got too uppity and tried to farm in melee range.