1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

WIP Path of the King by Neoalfa - M - F/Stay Night

Discussion in 'Fate/Stay Night' started by Probellum, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Nuit

    Nuit Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,934
    Location:
    The Peach State
    Shirou is an "annoying and selfrighteous douche"?

    Huh, don't believe I've ever seen anyone express a similar opinion. Mostly I've seen people talk about how stupid and single-minded he is about saving people.

    What makes him so to you?
     
  2. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    There is definitely a hate camp for Shirou, but it exists because he's dumb as a sack of wet bowling balls, at times. And he jackhammered Rin? I'll never forgive him for being such a brute.

    This is fanfiction, so if the protagonist doesn't fall into some number of skills it's likely because there won't actually be any physical conflict. I agree some of his skills come at too short a cost, but he does have to fight servants. What do you expect? If you don't give him the skills to fight them, then he can't, and then there isn't much to write about - Shirou just gets fucked the moment Saber decides to swing her sword.

    Shirou is also pretty special in terms of his magecraft - it's unique and powerful, but at an extreme cost: he'll never be able to utilize other magic. And he'll probably never be respected by the magical community, though I imagine he doesn't care about that. There should probably be more downsides, to make the use of it more weighted, but...

    I don't see Shirou as "self-righteous". That's a really bad way to describe him. Since when do self-righteous people have zero self-preservation instinct? Since then are they humble to a fault? Self-righteous impllies they're full of themselves, which Shirou is not. Shirou is incapable of caring about himself. Incapable of boasting, bragging, and doing good for the sake of image. He's not even righteous - he's just obsessed with being a "hero".
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  3. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage ~ Prestige ~

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,551
    Location:
    Department of Post-Mortem Communications
    High Score:
    2,101
    Maybe there are better ways to describe him but, dunno, I still think it fits. Shirou is utterly convinced that his way of doing things is right, that he knows when other people are wrong or what they should do or shouldn't do, that it is he alone that should take risks.

    It might be on the other side of the spectrum, but that is still righteousness the way I understand it. He is a fanatic. While he has zero self preservation instincts and does not think he deserves to live, he still holds his own values as beyond approach. So, in a way, yes, he is not a poser self righteous douche, he is a true righteous fanatic to his own ideals.
     
    TSN
  4. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    I guess the connotation for me is that someone is self-righteous/righteous when they "know" they are right. I don't get that impression from Shirou, who is always weighing the costs of his actions in regards to human life. He doesn't know what choice will save the most lives; that's one reason why he's involving Rin. He knows he can't do everything on his own and that he'll need the input and assistance of others; not that he'll trouble people who have no direct connection to the war.

    Shirou is definitely obsessive/fanatic over being a "hero" and "saving as many lives as possible" but righteous he is not.

    His ideal is pretty uncompromising and that's the reason Archer comes to exist at all.
     
  5. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    I think the reason that Shirou is falling into skills is that I kinda foresee that instead of having Caster vs Servant battles, we are going to see Caster-empowered Shirou vs Servant battles, in the way of what Caster and Kuzuki were from the original novel. There's just too much build-up for Shirou's skills for it to be anything else.
     
  6. neoalfa

    neoalfa Squib

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Italy
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with that perspective.

    Edit: Nemrut, thanks for the elaborate review you left on the latest chapter.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  7. Probellum

    Probellum Death Eater

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Among the Moose
  8. Aerylife

    Aerylife Not Equal

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Everywhere
    High Score:
    1,828
    Shouldn't this be counted as a Tsukihime cross if he encounters Roa/Arc?
     
  9. Jarik

    Jarik Chief Warlock

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,447
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Initially I wasn't really all that interested in the crossover route this was taking - just wanted it to get on with the Grail War - but this chapter actually has me pretty intrigued on how Shirou will affect the events of Tsukihime.

    Got bored of Fate Far Side and haven't really seen any other decent FSN/Tsukihime crossovers, but this could be quite an interesting interlude before the Grail War. I wonder whether this will actually tie into the Holy Grail War or just be a side story?
     
  10. Tasoli

    Tasoli Minister of Magic

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,242
    Location:
    Behind the keyboard
    Since they are in the same universe it isn't really crossover. He could also take elements from Notes and it still wouldn't be a Crossover. It would be a crossover if he uses KnK though.
     
  11. Legacy

    Legacy Death Eater DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    967
    I really like where this is going, if this actually becomes a major alteration to the world where the events of Tsukihime start to merge with the holy grail war I will be very happy. That and I've got this image in my head of Roa and Gilgamesh meeting and not being big fans of each other. Would be an interesting fight.
     
  12. Aerylife

    Aerylife Not Equal

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Everywhere
    High Score:
    1,828
    Yeah, it would be amusing to say the least.
     
  13. Oxy

    Oxy Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Actually, it doesn't necessarily need to take place in another universe in order for it to be considered a crossover. The only real requirement is that elements from one work interacts with elements from another work. This includes characters, setting etc.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrossoverIndex
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  14. Probellum

    Probellum Death Eater

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Among the Moose
    I guess you could call it one on a technicality, but I see this more as bringing in the expanded universe. Personally, I wouldn't call Batman popping over Metropolis to help Superman with a problem a crossover, but maybe that's just me. The same thing applies here.
     
  15. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Word of God for the Nasu-verse is that each individual series--even each route of each series--takes place within its own individual alternate timeline. So the Tsukihime-verse takes place in an alternate reality than Fate/Stay Night, which takes place in a different reality than KnK. It's to help avoid a continuity snarl.
     
  16. Jarik

    Jarik Chief Warlock

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,447
    Location:
    Melbourne
    It's one thing that always disappointed me a bit with the Nasu-verse. Even though they're all separate stories, it'd be cool just to have a bit more linkage between them.
     
  17. yak

    yak Moderator DLP Supporter Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,001
    Location:
    Australia
    Most of the community considers them to be the same 'verse, and it's easier for classification purposes.

    That's according to the TypeMoon wiki, and they're sourcing Fate/Complete Material Vol. III - World Material. Nasu might've changed his mind since then, but there's still precedence to classify them as the same 'verse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  18. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    Kara no Kyoukai is in the same universe as Tsukihime and Fate. KnK is actually Nasu's earliest work in the universe (thus, the story has been revised many times in his head as the universe was still in its formative state), but many of the characters in it are at least mentioned once or twice in either of the successive major works. Melty Blood also features Ryougi Shiki.

    I really don't think this story has anything to do with Tsukihime and consider it weakening the tone of the story by including it in its scope, but I guess it's interesting. I do like crossing over the two stories (and it'd be fun if someone like Ciel became a Master in the war), but I don't get where this is going with all this.
     
  19. Brukel

    Brukel Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Presumably a power up for Shirou or at least more combat experience prior to the war. Get the feeling Caster isn't going to survive which is a shame, quite like her, both here and in the novel.
     
  20. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,958
    Why wouldn't she survive and what gives you the impression we'd go down a dark road like that? Maybe if he wants a sad ending, but she can't die right away, that would make a lot of this all pointless.
     
Loading...