Fishy, you shouldn't bold when you are not actually voting, no, dun go and correct it now, just remember that.

Like I have said previously, TMNTurtwig seems scummy to me, but he has been replaced by Sesc. This unfortunately results in a situation where Sesc can't answer to whatever Turtwig has posted, as I don't think Sesc is psychic. However, their role is still the same(as Sesc stated), and I believe that we shouldn't just ignore that simply because the players have changed.

Here are the reasons why I think he is scummy.

once again, I highlight that assuming everyone is town is a ridiculous idea if you're a townie. Especially if you are alone. Even if you have a shared QT with another fellow townie, everyone else is a potential scum.

This may sound like an innocent question as he stated "This is the first mafia game I've ever played". However, this seems as though he knew beforehand that Rents is town (which may or may not be true).

The possible reasons are
1) TMNTurtwig is town. He shares a QT with Rents, hence he knows Rents is town.

2) TMNTurtwig is scum. Rents is not part of the scumteam. He assumes there is no 3rd faction and thinks Rents is town.

3) TMNTurtwig is town. He has a role that tells him at least one player that is confirmed town.

4) TMNTurtwig is town. He honestly wanted to know the answer to his question and didn't think there was anything wrong with his question.


However, his behaviour seems to be leaning towards being scummy, which makes reason number 2 more possible. From this, I can fairly safely assume that TMNTurtwig(now Sesc), is NOT part of a third faction, and is either town or scum.

For if he is a third faction, he would not know if anyone else is town or scum, unless he has the entire rolelist, which is near impossible because I believe Eido won't pull something like that.

Hence I'm keeping my vote on Sesc.

 

Regardless of you ignoring my circumstances bit, a scum player would never push for it. Its an Opinion and its Informative. Two things a scum player never truly wants.

Your stretching for a scum connection here and you know it.

Tldr; this discussion is old. There are few scenarios where NL is +town. A potential Day 1 NL should never happen, no matter the roles involved. Anyone who thinks differently is either scum or valuing their own play over a town win.

 

Fishy, can you tell me why you're targeting me over everyone else?

 

Basically, this. 2 and 4 are the most likely possibilities, IMO, because there may or may not be Masons in this game and roles that are aware of other players innocence or guilt before the beginning of the first night phase are fairly rare.

Vote: Sesc

On the other hand, Sesc can be a great help to town, and I'd rather not lynch him without a very good reason this early in the game. I might switch if Sesc ever elaborates on his read of Fishy.

 

With less than a day left we have 4 people with one vote on them. Font seems really into trying to pin scum on someone without there really being much substance to an argument, it could be a scum slip (unlikely) could be odd phrasing by a first timer, or could be just how the words came out. I don't really know and we can't ask him what he was thinking anymore, but font is determined to cast doubt on TMNT/Sesc while simultaneously putting a vote on someone who accused her of taking things as more than they are.

That doesn't even mention the whole NL disagreement.

Lynch Vote: Fontisian

---------- Post automerged at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

Wat, you vote for sesc with a vote on wetnurse, then say he might be useful but you're leaving it there? this doesn't make sense.

Trying to play off what roles we think are in a game past mafia, cop, and doctor (the three we can almost be certain of) is pretty silly IMO.

 

I don't even...

First off, it's day one. When is there ever a good reason to lynch someone on day 1? Second, I was explaining my reasoning for a post I made yesterday becuase Fishy brought it up, no doubt casting. I'm attacking Sesc now because 1.Sacrifice makes a good point and 2. I'm a little annoyed with Sesc for not posting all day.

I don't understand your other points. At all.

---------- Post automerged at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

I don't think I voted for Wetnurse. Wetnurse is voting for me. (Did I vote for Wetnurse and forget about it? Great, now I'll just reread the thread again.)

I'm saying the odds of TMNT being a Mason with you are low. Why is that silly?

---------- Post automerged at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------

Nope, never voted for Wetnurse. TMNT and Caesar did, though they both rescinded.

I think you're reading Fishy's tally wrong, Rents.

 

Rents, Fishy meant that Wetnurse voted for Font, not the other way round. You might want to count the votes yourself.

 

Nope, still not down with the font lynch.

As usual I want to aggro Rents, but why the fuck should I even bother lol.

Uhh...

Actually, Rents, defend yourself, why are you rolereading publically are you trying to get all the power roles killed wtf I told everyone they shouldn't into wtf are you rolefishing wtf are you doing see post #39 please stop before you come up with something brilliant by accident and get the cop or doctor killed

Nullreads throughout.

Caesar - assuming null?

Fishy Justice - @post60 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL on a reread through the thread all I can think of is "WHY ARE LUNGS AND FISHY JUSTICE BUDDYING EACH OTHER"

Fishy - tell me about Sesc's possible motivations without talking about yourself as much as possible. obviously if you have some sort of role read keep it the fuck to yourself.

Sacrifice - not sure if overreacting to sesc or righteously pissed.

Just a general note WRT #121 I don't agree with the "everyone is potentially SCUMZ" view because paranoia always leads to people throwing hammers at people who don't kind of cut their posts neatly and fix them up and shit. I kind of read for fluctuations in people's play? If they're reinventing themselves and setting up ways to backtrack, it's probably scum. Maybe this is an evolution of the way I used to look at people's grammar, but probably better.

Sesc - where is sesc?

Kalas - null/town light scumread is kind of gone because I kind of like 122.

Guljons - not sure if drinking the wine alone or drinking the wine with scumbuddies, uh... looks null-leans-scum from here because while he doesn't play like "scum" to font, he looks like scum from here. :\

guljons, explain yourself. why would it ever be in scum interests to self-l wtf this question is so dumb because it's rhetorical and you can kind of see the confused grimace on my face if you looked hard enough lol

wetnurse, your name is really lewd you must be scum. null-town for now, because I didn't notice the stuff you talked about in 119.

Hey font I still kind of sort of believe you're innocent so I'm going to ask a loaded question: If you were mafia, who would you kill tonight and why. As I said earlier, if you have a roleread, keep it to yourself.

If you hate the question and want to lynch me for asking it, you should post a readwall instead.

At anyway, please explain post 119.

/notdisclosingreasons for things i ask

Not sure if I want to aggro Vira or if aggroing Vira would even be worth much, I think she's lost interest in the game or something. At any rate: Vira, can I please have a readwall from you, it's time you played Scumdar is shit shouldn't be an excuse, everyone, even Luckylee and Rents, have something to contribute to this conversation.

======

holy shit I'm fucked up.

uhh, I hope whatever I wrote isn't too all over the place all of this was done in quick reply and I should have creepastad the name list instead of just scrolling around so if I missed anyone talk to me.

 

Still, Lungs, with the train of thoughts going something like, "everyone is town! Let's trust everyone! And then have your feelings smashed apart if they turn out to be scum!" certainly isn't going to help town.

of course there is a possibility you are wrong and poof you mislynch a town, which is obviously not a good thing, but isn't that the whole point of mafia?

Find the suspicious ones and corner them, while not trusting anyone else, lest it is some kind of scumploy. With several veteran players in here, I don't think I'm being too careful.

---------- Post automerged at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

What I'm saying is that there is no 100% guarantee when voting, so go for the most suspicious one

 

townsumption ≠ trust

I don't trust any of you :\

I'm just going to assume that everyone's null-town until they say something.

 

Why did you ask me to do this at 2am?

Mafia question first, I suppose. In a couple words, it depends on my scumbuddies.

I would prioritize killing active and dangerous people. I consider Sesc to be very dangerous and Vira, Fishy, Caesar and, to a lesser extent, Wetnurse to be fairly dangerous. You, Sacrifice and guljons are unknowns. Activity wise, you, Sacrifice, Caesar and, to a lesser extent, Fishy take priority.

Unless I was feeling very risky, I would not kill Fishy or Wetnurse because of WINE. I would also leave you alone because I'd need you to draw attention away from me and onto other people. Vira and guljons have been fairly absent, which makes for an easy mislynch, so I wouldn't kill them either. That leaves Sesc, Caesar and Sacrifice. I would kill one of them if they met the conditions of 1.having some town cred, 2. not having actively attacked one of my teammates and 3. not being one of my teammates.

Might as well throw in my reads too.

Caesar - Asked a lot of questions early on, either in an attempt to push the conversation or to appear towny. Null.

Fishy Justice - I'm trying to wait for the analysis of post 60 in particular before coming to a conclusion. I don't like the way Fishy didn't cite the context of my post when he attacked me, nor do I like the way he immediately backed off after Wetnurse jumped on it. Probably not on a team with Wetnurse. Leaning scum.

Guljons - Inactive, leaning town because of his mod speculation.

Kalas - Almost of Kalas' posts are either jokes or comments on mechanics, which is troublesome. I'd like to hear his views of the current lynch candidates. Null, with a slight scum lean.

LuckyLee - Had a period of high (possibly nervous) activity, then disappeared for a day. Probably not on a team with Lungs. Null.

Lungs - Highly active, and supports me for no apparent reason. Posts while drunk, which something I would never do if I were scum. Leaning town.

Rents - Herp derp. Null, with slight scum lean for the weird burst of effort early on.

Sacrifice - Asks good questions and I like his analysis of Sesc. The motivations behind pushing for a Sesc lynch could be suspect though. Leaning town.

Sesc - Dead to the world. TMNT's posts were fairly scummy, for reasons previously stated. After writing this stuff, I think I'll switch off Sesc to Fishy or maybe Rents or Vira depending on Sesc's response.

Vira - Lurking and refusing to give reads. Fishy's vote for her makes me uneasy about adding my vote in though. Leaning scum.

Wetnurse - Not sure how "I guess it really is a bit fishy" becomes "she looks really scummy," which makes me suspicious of Wetnurse's motives. However, I've often seen town!Wetnurse as scummy on past day ones, so I'll give him a null read for now.

 

Yeah, the bold names are the ones being voted for. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Mostly to get you to talk. Partly because I lack sufficient targets. You have been unapologetically quiet. It's not so much something you did as something you're not doing.

I'm iffy on Sesc and Font for what I hope are obvious reasons. They're strong players and tend to drive discussion regardless of faction. I can see an argument for both, but I want to hear more from other players before I decide.

To be honest, I really don't know what his angle is. I've looked and have been thinking about it, but I haven't come up with much. He mentioned post 60, so let's look at that.

The first half about LuckyLee is really insubstantial. I throw my weight behind accusations made by others to no real end. This is compounded by the fact I backed off of LuckyLee instead of pushing. I suppose you could label that as distancing, or being noncommittal. It also has a piggybacking element to it, which is a thing scum do.

I make a very weak jab at Kalas. What this has to do with the rest of the post? Nothing. I just wanted to jab him. This wouldn't be so bad, except.

I defend TMNT. Sort of. It looks that way, anyway. To me this seems the most likely part to confuse. I was addressing Wetnurse. But looking back I suppose it could seem out of context a bit.

Overall the post lacks direction and makes what are supposed to be a few weak jabs. it's not a good post, but I don't see anything outright terrible about it. It was my poor attempt to try to be a bit aggressive and get things moving beyond chatter questions.

So, I don't know. Maybe he thought I was shooting out in too many directions suddenly, or that I was trying too hard. Or maybe he thought I was faking content, or he just wanted to see how I'd react. It is bugging me though. It would be nice if he showed up before the very end of the day.


So to explain, or re-explain, the TMNT paragraph. I wasn't actually trying to defend TMNT. TMNT didn't even register for me at the time. TMNT's question prompted my response, but it was never about him. I was focused on Wetnurse's question to Rents. To me the question seemed to be laying groundwork for lynching Rents when and if he didn't live up to a standard of play. From that angle the question is clearly scummy, as it implies a potential lynch with no real scum hunting involved.

At the time, Wetnurse and Font had deflected TMNT's quesiton away from what I thought was the issue. I did not want that discourse to end so I tried to continue it. Admittedly it was a shitty attempt, but that was the purpose. So blame tunnel vision or what have you.

 

Sesc: I think I have an idea. Still, I'd really like to see it in your words.

Interesting that you only looked at Sesc's possible motivations as a towny and didn't consider his possible motivations as scum.

 

I'm still in class, so I'll post in a couple of hours.

 

Technically twenty-four hours is still later

Fishy Justice: Had a lot of content-lite posting and mechanics talk early on but I'm not seeing whatever Sesc (and Kalas?) saw in #60. Tenuous attack on font and Wetnurse in #116 that was quickly retracted in #120. Went after Vira for lack of activity. Potential links to font, Wetnurse, Rents, Vira and Sesc. Currently scum side of null.

Fontisian: Started well, asking and answering questions. Interesting interaction with TMNTurtwig re: Wetnurse and Rents. In context, looks like scum hunting. Interesting debate with Kalas on self-lynching. Not sure what conclusions to draw from it yet. Not a big fan of the first part of #131- talking about potential scum strategy in thread like that is almost never +town. Rest of the post is good, though I disagree with her conclusions on guljons. On balance, probably town.

Guljons: Metagaming and mechanics talk. Subtle attack on Kalas. Possible link to Sesc. Null.

Kalas: Filler and mechanics/meta talk. Sort of supported Sesc's accusation against Fishy. Listed myself and Fishy as his leading scum suspects. Accused guljons of "reaching" to find a scum tell in his advocacy of self-lynching over no-lynching. Would like to hear more from him but currently reads as slightly scummy.

LuckyLee: Early burst of nervous, vaguely derpy activity. I may have been overly paranoid in comparing it to Smile's play in BSM. Unlikely to share a QT with Lungs. Lists myself, Vira and guljons as potential scum. I'd like to see more but I'm currently reading him as derp town.

Lungs: Has been very active. Buddied Fishy and font early on and drew attention to Lucky's nervous posting. Post #86 is interesting. Soft defends Fishy, puts pressure on myself, Kalas, Sacrifice and Wetnurse to post more content. Further buddies font. Post #128 is a mixed bag. Rows back on Kalas and Wetnurse. Seems to have misunderstood guljon's post on self-lynching (or I have). Asks in depth questions of font and Fishy. Not a fan of the one directed at font for reasons given above. Apparently has reasons behind it though. Puts pressure on Rents, Sesc and Vira. Currently reads as town to me.

Rents: Oddly active and focused, as others have noted. Brought up 3rd parties. Was enthusiastic about Sesc joining the game and defended him against Font. Bringing up roles in #125 was a little odd. I'd be inclined to say scum side of null for the moment.

Sacrifice: Started well and has been active. Called guljons out on meta/modgaming. Decent analysis on Sesc in #121. Currently reads as town.

TMNTurtwig/Sesc: AWOL at the moment, which is not good. Don't like his refusal to explain his vote for Fishy fully. Too many explanations for TMNT's comment about Rents (as he's a relative noob) to draw any conclusions. Leaning scum.

Vira: Refusing to talk is anti town. Please post.

Wetnurse: Early inactivity has not been fully mitigated by recent efforts. Seems to be tunneling on font. OTOH, has at least contributed a read wall and is making some effort to scum hunt. Town side of null.

In summary, I'd like to see more from Sesc, Kalas, Vira and guljons. Lucky and Rents too, actually. Of the current lynch candidates I feel that Fishy would probably be the most informative. With that in mind:

Vote Player: Fishy Justice

I'll check back in before deadline to see how things are going.

 

Still confident in my reads.

Sesc - light town read, turtwig nonwithstanding. the problem with replacements is that no matter the role, no only will the person in question act differently because it's not, well, the same person anymore, but it's excessively hard to tell if they're doing it because they're playing better or because they're convincingly using replacements to mask slips and shit.

I want read walls from everyone who hasn't posted a read wall yet but I never get what I want, but I'll be more likely to hammer people who aren't really playing because I don't want to into another fucking inactive game. Shit's the worst.

Worldbuilding:

Either I'm right and guljons and (possibly rents or vira) are scum.

Or I'm wrong and Fishy IS actually scum.

In that scenario, Vira is probably scum, because that single vote from a person who doesn't inspire confidence is enough to ensure that no one fucking lays hammer on Vira because scumploy stuff.

If Fishy isn't scum, Vira might still be scum, but I think that if Fishy into scum, Vira into scum. not sure if legitiread or the winez.

In a world in which Sesc is scum, Fishy probably isn't because the increasing aggro is convincing me that they can't be on the same team unless this is really well planned out, but honestly if either were hammered and either were scum I'd count it as a +, so I don't think I can think of any worlds in which that much aggro is good D1.

In a world where Font is scum, I'll eat a NK and that'll suck. In that case, Vira's a convenient lazy town target for easylunch, Kalas looks like distancing, and guljons is probably scum because of the noncommital things in the last read wall.

But I don't believe font's scum, so I think I'm right but really that's what this is to begin with.

In a world in which Luckylee is scum, I would be scum, making it personal is super effective.

In a more serious view, if Lucky is scum, then I have no read on his teammates, and I'd assume that either his team was made of derp/inactivity (vira, ollie, or something), or they're letting him hang himself or something.

but lucky's a solid null and I don't want to think about that scenario because that requires the estimation of how bad the bad play is and thinking about that makes me not want to play.

if wetnurse is scum, then font probably not scum, because well-reasoned attacks against teammates almost always end badly. in that case, I'd probably believe that Kalas is scum because #94 looks like he's buddying me and poking Kalas with the pretense of throwing him under the bus.

If Rents is scum that tells me literally nothing. I don't sense any specific collusion in his posts, but honestly even if there was the derp runs so deep that I'd have to have a lot more than just alcohol to ascertain the thought process behind those posts.

ugh I know I only did like half the players but I've been thinking about this for like, 30 minutes and I'd rather read my school newspaper at this point.

 

It was uncommital, left miles to backtrack, poked with exactly zero pressure and ends with a hilarious link to Rents where he deliberately misrepresented BSM.

But its fine if you managed to pick up on none of that.

 

VOTE TALLY​

Votals:
Fishy Justice (2): Sesc, Caesar
Fontisian (2): Wetnurse, Rents
Lungs (1): Kalas
Sesc (2): Sacrifice, Fontisian
Vira (1): Fishy Justice

Abstaining: Guljons, Luckylee, Lungs, Vira

With 12 alive, it is 7 to hard lynch and 4 to soft lynch.

Time To End Of Day: 7 hours 50 minutes!

 

Okay I'm still fucking playing. thanks for that, caesar :\

Not sure who you're talking to Kalas, might want to clarify

Uhh, in the world where Caesar's scum, the assumption I'd draw would be that Fishy is a townier town than most town, but it's not true in reverse - if fishy's scum, I'm not sure that Caesar is town because apparently tunnelling on Fishy is really attractive right now and I cannot for the life of me understand why.

In the case that I'm wrong as fuck, default to already outlined scenario.

My guns, I stick to my guns, my guns are on sticks, there are sticks in my guns.

Whatever.

Effectively, I have the same read as caesar on guljons, but I'm more inclined to believe that type of thing is scummy, so I'm trying to figure out what that tells me about him.