Sacrifice
Post 8 and 12 – Random votes TMNT and makes a joke

Post 19: Immediately follows up on my call for questions with a fairly good one.

Post 45: He underestimates the potential danger of accidently hard lynching or scum hammering for the win.

Post 63: A call for action from someone who hasn’t been all that active.

Post 68: Problems with this post 1. guljons wasn’t making an assumption. He was asking us to consider what TMNT being replaced meant. 2. I wouldn’t call it detrimental to town and by asking that question, Sacrifice manages to doubt cast guljons’s idea without actually pointing out the any problems with it.

Post 89: Draws on the previous discussion to attack Sesc, and pressures Wetnurse to post more. The way the Wetnurse bit was tacked on later could indicate that Sacrifice thought he needed to put pressure on more than one person to look towny or that it took him a moment to realize how inactive Wetnurse was being. Uses the “I don’t have many reads” excuse.

Post 98: Defends his lynch views.

Post 103: Plays the twisty words game with my post. I am positive he knew what I meant.

Post 108: Puts some pressure on Luckylee. The first part explains his current stance on Luckylee.

Post 121: Outlines a pretty good case against Sesc.

Post 127: Questions Rent’s ability to read the vote count.

Post 129: Elaborates on the scum hunting views expressed in 108.

Post 143: Use the “I don’t have many reads” excuse again. Puts further pressure on Sesc. Gives himself an out in case he doesn’t come in to change his vote before deadline.

Post 187: This post makes almost no sense in context. The votes were at Fishy (3), fonti (3), Vira (2) and Sesc (1) before, and yet Sacrifice used to put Fishy and I up to soft lynch or put the third vote on Vira. He may have been trying to avoid being blamed for a lynch on a towny. Other the hand, this post was written at 6:30 in the morning for Sacrifice, so he may have been a bit out of it.

Post 192: Sacrifice mixes Vira and Kalas up and votes for Vira based on the mix up. Calls me and Fishy town. Indicative of Sacrifice and Kalas not sharing a qt.

Post 204: Sacrifice realizes his mistake, but decides to continue voting for Vira anyway, possibly because he doesn’t want to look like he’s backtracking.

Post 216: This really looks like scum pretending to be upset over yesterday’s events, mainly due to the summary nature of the post.

Post 221: Corrects Luckylee. He seems to talk to Luckylee a lot for some reason.

Post 223: Knee jerk angry response to my pressure, then a summary of the stuff everyone paying attention should have already known.

Post 225: Oddly defensive, with quite a bit of backtracking.

Post 228: Makes a very good point against Kalas. The past tense and lack of a follow up bothers me.

Posts 231 and 233: More defensive stuff in response to Kalas’ pressure.

 

Fuck man

I just awoke, I'm at least a half hour from any lucidity but fuck that, I'm here. I'm going to look over GulCat's posts because while I want to throw my vote on LuckyLee (those posts) or Sesc (that counting), or maybe Sacrifice (seems to focus a lot on Sesc, and flipflop like John Kerry in '04) I also want to see if our brazen newcomer is filling in scummy shoes.

 

...Seriously Rents? Thats it? After lurking the whole game you just make another "promise to post" post? I'd be tempted to try to Lynch you if there weren't more viable targets atm.

 

How about you read the posts I quoted, and give me some actual reactions about them, instead of telling me to do something I've already done. Maybe I'll consider answering your questions then.

And frankly, I could care less if you think I'm a bitch. (and the idea that someone would ban me for being opinionated and forward is really funny to me, especially when it's in a game). This is mafia. My job is to catch scum, and lynch them.

So, how about this: You actually read the Lucky posts I quoted and give me an idea of where your head is at, and I'll actually read that huge wall of a Sacrifice case you have, and tell you what I think.

---------- Post automerged at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

Lungs, I've been reading along with the game while I waited to replace in, and Lucky has been setting off my scumdar for ages.

That's why.

Also, gimme a sec ajnd I'll make a seperate post about explaining town reads.

 

Ok so I'm delivering although there's not much actually there with guljons/Lex

Lex has some real input but isn't willing to really converse so much as exchange, which is fucking weird and I don't like it. At all.

 

A couple big reason why you don't explain your town reads:

1) Unlike scum reads which are things scum shouldn't do, and are much harder to avoid ALL of (though I've seen some really good scum players in my time, and they are outstanding), town reads are positive statements. What I mean by that, is that they are things that players do right and should do (rather than do wrong and shouldn't do) if their goal is to not get lynched (a neutral goal, in most cases. Sometimes motivation for staying alive can differ, but barring situational things, by definition a neutral goal).

So what does this mean? It means that it's a bad idea to give the scum things that we consider to be town oriented, that they can try and replicate to fool us. You might be thinking that this would never happen, and that you would consciously know that you told people about that reason for reading people as town, so you wouldn't use it.

Except in the best case scenario, it's impossible to tell the difference between a townie and scum using that knowledge, since it's an equal goal to both of them. So all that means is that you've lost a potential way to read people as town. In the worst case scenario, you could actually be fooled by scum using that tell, especially if it's something that resonates in your gut feeling.

So that's reason 1.

Reason 2 is that is can foster pointless discussion. Not all discussion is good. If you're not talking about something relevant to the current situation, you're not effectively hunting scum.

And discussion about why or why not my town read on a player is correct does not help us find scum in the slightest. If you disagree with me, and think that player is scum, you would be better off presenting me with reasons why he is scum, and trying to convince me in that manner. It's far more effective and breeds a much better line of conversation.

There's a few other minor reasons, but these are effectively the big ones.

---------- Post automerged at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

Tell me why you dislike it, and I'll tell you why I do it.

 

Erm, I did what the next post? I am pointing out the fact that meta-gaming has a potential of fucking town over, because this is a closed set up. My next post was #89, the one where I first lynch voted Sesc/TMNTurtwig, I don't see how that relates to #68.

I woke up at 6am just to ensure that there was a lynch vote. Fontisian rescinded her vote from Sesc. My vote was the only one on Sesc at that point of time, and the timer was ticking down. I see that there were other lynchwagons. Hence I removed my vote from Sesc, and waited for more posts, mainly the defences from the lynch targets, in order to make my decision. Why? Because maintaining my vote on Sesc is as good as abstaining when there is no one else voting for him.

The flow that led to Fishy's lynchwagon seems strange. Do note how it started was Sesc going "Fishy Justice is scum" and lynch votes him with no explanation.

I first voted for Vira because I mixed him up with Kalas. After that however, I realise I made a stupid mistake. However, Vira was simply not defending himself and rolling about when there was a lynchwagon on him, which basically, isn't very townie at all. I stayed with the vote on Vira, I saw that my vote broke the tie, and was sure that we would get a lynch.

You didn't have to bump the thread. It was unnecessary because it was already stickied at that point of time.

Back pedals? I posted how pissed I was when both targets turned out to be town. I then tried to find out exactly what the fuck happened that resulted in a no-lynch, and those who voted against these two players.

Look, Sesc posted a question to Fontisian, in which he probably knew the answer will make me look bad. He selectively chose everyone in Vira's lynchwagon other than me to be assumed town, and told Fontisian to make a post on it. Later on, he simply builds on Font's post and say that he agrees and then lynch votes me.

:facepalm Lexicat jumps in the game with a post against you. I read the post and found that she had a point, well, without regards to whether she was being arrogant.
I considered the possibility that you were derp town acting scummy, because that actually occurs pretty often in mafia. This isn't my first game.

I find Sesc more suspicious than you are, I have my own case against him, which was carried over from Day One. You on the other hand, was a case made by Lexicat, and was not my own case against you. In fact, when Lexicat asked that question, I still think you are town acting like scum until you exploded in #287.

 

Only they knew they were town at the time. so that's not much of an argument...

Lexi: how much experience do you have in closed games? open ones?

Also yes, I know my contribution earlier was nothing D8

 

Hundreds of games of experience in both.

 

I was going to say Caesar and Rents made communication with each other while Sesc did not do so to both of them. I saw that my number 4 was already talking about that. hence the "what the fuck am I posting" automerge.

Also, I found it funny that Sesc was talking about how pro-town I was when I am lynch voting him. I thought that was something to point out.

I typed my posts somewhere else before copy and pasting over. I accidentally left out some parts of it. It was called Scenario 3, but after taking a closer look, it shouldn't be classified under a completely new scenario.

I did not claim that Fishy protected me. I said IF he protected anyone, I came to the conclusion that the person he protected was probably me.
I did NOT receive a notification from Eido, which was why I kept thinking of the possibility that Fishy did not protect anyone, and died from a direct NK.

That's why I said it was hard to make a top 3 scum suspect list, because I only had a top two at that point of time. I included Vira in to fill it up to 3, that I admit. As for that post-merge, it was because I found your behaviour fairly towny save for the fact that you made that statement, which sounded like a scumslip.

Please do. I want to see how this will turn out.

I decided that everyone should be aware of you, I added that post 245 to highlight that fact, so that people will pay even more attention to your posts.

 

People I want to lynch right now:

Sacrifice
other people

Other people I want to lynch right now:

Caesar
other people

Other other people I want to lynch right not, but not really:

Sesc
Rents

People I really don't want to lynch right now because most definitely town:

Font

 

Firstly, sorry for the delay on this. I had company over. I've focused on today's posts because they're where most of the problem lies.

Like font said at the time (and possibly since- catching up on the thread now) this feels like summary. There's no analysis, no discussion of what this means.

Defends himself against font and seems to put subtle pressure on her and Sesc over the no-lynch.

What interests me about this post is the seeming contrast in his attitude to the no-lynch. His previous post did seem to have something of an accusatory tone to it to me, while this one presents it as an accident.

This one seems OK to me as I thought Kalas's reaction was pretty scummy too.

Further explanation of his actions at the end of Day 1. Interesting to note that he initially voted for Vira due to thinking she was Kalas- something seemingly at odds with his stated intent of using his vote to prevent a tie.

Huge post considering the possibility of a Caesar/Rents/Sesc scum team. Interestingly seems to missed the interaction between Sesc and myself towards the end of Day 1. Also, something appears to be missing in the auto merge post.

After a long post discussing potential Night 1 scenarios, which strikes me as great filler, posts the above, having seemingly misinterpreted font's post on the topic. In retrospect this post is somewhat scummy and I really should have picked up on it earlier.

Asks a pretty open question of Font and the thread in general. (I agree with font's answer, by the way).

Next we have the infamous post #251. That, I feel, has been gone over enough. Suffice to say that I agree with Sesc.

The mention of Vira in this post is odd, another thing I really should have noticed at the time. Also find the mention of Lungs and font interesting, particularly font, considering where his vote was at the time.

Defends himself, somewhat aggressively, from Sesc and font.

Further defense, with pressure on Sesc, font and Luckylee.

Mostly in agreement with his reasoning here.

Next we have my requested analysis of Lungs, which essentially comes to "Meh."

I had much the same reaction to Lucky's post but had (and have) better suspects. Considering context, may be deflecting.

Conclusions: Having looked back at things I really should have picked up on at the time I'll admit that Sacrifice does look somewhat scummy.

Fake Edit because I have been ninjaed like woah:

@font: You are completely off Any way I can convince you of that?

@Rents: Same request I made of Lucky earlier.

 

ebwodp: I don't want to lynch Lucky too much because if he flips town it'd tell us nearly nothing, but if he flips scum it won't tell us much more?

idk, I don't feel as though Lucky's really on any teams, but maybe because everyone on DLP's kinda scummy (heh), he's really not set off any radars other than irc!troll

 

Lungs, with there being 2 kills last night, do you think this setup is more likely to be 9:3, 8:3:1 or 9:2:1?

 

ebwodp(real edition):

never mind I like Caesar's posts I'm not sure I want to lynch him anymore.

---------- Post automerged at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

@Lexi: 8:3:1 looks really wrong because 2 mislynches = town kingmaking scenario, I believe?

9:2:1 looks really really hard for me, but I wouldn't put it out of the question.

9:3 with some town insta!vig looks more likely, but there's also a fair chance that scum might have some oneshot kill they just decided to fire because of some kind of fuck-it massive confusion gimmick, which... unfortunately, might have been super effective vs. me.

I have no idea why Fishy AND Vira died, why scum would kill either of them, especially especially Vira? But considering Fishy's role, Fishy probably provided some one!last!service.

Also, considering Fishy isn't a bad player compared some fuckers here, HE MIGHT HAVE DECIDED NOT TO MENTION ROLE THINGS AND DIVINED SOMEONE'S ROLE AND KEPT IT SECRET AND SCUM DID TOO AND HE PROTECTED THE RIGHT PERSON BECAUSE HE'S NOT SACRIFICE.

right.

 

Guess who’s caught up?

@Lexi: Aggressive much? Enjoyed your analysis, though Caesar as most town is laughable. Also byplay with Sacrifice is cute, are names in #283 not mentioned because of the me/Sacrifice split or did him saying your own words back to you really alleviate suspicion?

@Caesar: Throw whatever reasoning you feel safe sharing but could you throw out some updated town reads? Your analysis all seem to end up at the same place.

@LL: There’s ways to handle pressure. Exploding aint one of them.

@Sacrifice: Your posts have improved a bit. Hitting your stride?

 

Alright, I'll throw that up shortly. As a point of clarification, do you mean that I end each analysis by accusing someone of being scum?

 

Basically. That's not a bad thing, though it does seem somewhat centered on your Kalas!Scum assumption. Something to contrast it with would be nice.