Well... If he is a Shichibukai he shouldn't join Whitebeard's crew, and it would mean the War of the Best just doesn't happen. Other than that it would be up the author what happens, does he still meet Luffy in Alabasta? Or does Ace just do his own thing in the New World? Garp would probably beat the shit out of Ace when/if finds him too. Also, developing OC's for Ace's crew would be a nuisance.

 

So, was reading a FSN/Sekirei crossover (I think it was just rec'd in Alost Recommendable, actually) and the start of the fourth chapter had dream with fire in it, cuz Karasuba and shit.

Anyway, that's not important, what's important was that it made me think of the Fuyuki Fire and the various fics where it changes Shirou's element and origin instead of Avalon. Thinking about it, the phrase "Hatred begets hatred," came to mind. In this case, if the Fire = hatred, then the idea of a Shirou with hatred in his heart came to me. The idea is that the fire, does change Shirou's Origin and Element, specifically into Hatred. (For all that Hatred can be an Element, but w/e) Then, Avalon comes into the picture and add Sword to both.

So to sum up, Hatred/Sword origin and Element Shirou.

What this does, is that fundamentally, his Ideals are still the same. He wants to save people. He sees himself as a sword to be used to bring about this, yadda yadda. But the hatred part of him has several effects, the most evident being his extreme dislike of anything that can be construed as "Evil," or as an "Injustice," to him. It sends him into a rage. (I.e, if he saw someone being bullied, in canon he'd probably step in and try to fight the bullies, here does the same thing, just a hell of a lot more viciously) Not to mention he might also be able to use a tad bit more magic than Projection and Reinforcement. (Maybe stuff that deals with the mind and sending people into a blind rage)

TL;DR, Berserker!Shirou

I haven't really thought out much more than that really, but it seems like it could turn into a neat idea. I mean, Shirou's different personality could have a multitude of effects, with him having a bigger and easier to trigger temper. Plus the bloodlust, can't forget the bloodlust.

Really, I think we need just a "General ideas," thread, for ideas that aren't entirely plotbunnies in their own right.

EDIT: If this post is a tad rambling, forgive me, I'm a tad tired right now.

 

Picture this scene:

Three warriors, pulled from their respective worlds, stand together as brothers on a barren wasteland and calmly wait to fight the incoming army of the ghouls, zombies and other undead abominations.

Their names? Harry Potter, Naruto Uzumaki and Red of Pallet Town.

 

An army of abominations would be no match for Red. Also, Shirou's origin could be "All Worlds Evil" due to Angra Mainyu.

 

I was thinking similarly. The Fuyuki City Fire was started by "All the World's Evil" spilling out from the destroyed Holy Grail, so it's not unreasonable for Shirou to have been exposed to the Mud, or particles of it, during the fire. At least one other F/SN fic has taken this route.

Another route you could take, Proudboar, is to change Kiritsugu Emiya's exposure to "All the World's Evil".

Have Kiritsugu become less sane and more evil; full of rage, anger, and spite. He can still love Shirou, but you know how some parents love their children but are complete monsters to them? Have Shirou raised/trained/prepared by an insane Kiritsugu. When Shirou behaves like Kiri wants, he rewards Shirou with an honest smile - probably unknowing of its effect on Shirou. Shirou should be Kiri's obsession as well as perhaps a warped version of his desire to save lives.

It's rough, but it's an idea. Shirou's a blank slate who takes on his father's ideals, so if you want to change Shirou, change Kiritsugu.

 

Or have Kiritsugu not act like a fucking idiot when it comes to telling Shirou about magecraft >.> Having Shirou interact with the Nasuverse pre grail war is something I REALLY want to see. There a couple of fics that do it.. pretty shittily. Pre Grail War Shirou with decent training would be balanced enough to interact with the rest of the verse. Also Shirou/Barthomeloi OTP

 

What times in their respective series?

Cause, you know, current-series Naruto would stop an endless amount of mindless undead. Can you say Tailed Beast Ball Rasengan?

Master-Of-Death!Harry would probably just wave his hand and make them fall over.

Red would unleash the power of Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur.

 

Ehhhhhhhhh.

I don't buy it. Due to the specialized nature of what he is, he is only really good at tracing. In the end it is just him figuring out Tracing before the War, and just have some different weapons. That is always what him being taught magic ends up equaling, and it is that way since canon even forces such a path.

Mind, one can always go kid assassin but then you just get mini-Kiritsugu, and hell if no one has even seen that.

 

Not to mention that if you change Shirou's nature or origin to something other than "Sword" he loses his Tracing and UBW. He'd have to have some other power-up to get things going.

 

There was one fic (or a one-shot) that used that premise. 5th war Caster was summoned in the 4th war, killed her Master, and waited for death, but she was found by kid!Shirou, who formed a contract with her (somehow). The rest of it, was Caster talking with Shirou and manipulating him into believing that the HGW was some awesome and fun game and he must participate.

There was only one interesting part about it - Shirou lived with only his mother, and it was speculated, that Tokiomi Tohsaka was his father. Now go with this, and play UBW :awesome

 

Well, the ideas are pretty good. The Mud thing had completely slipped my mind. >.<
Ryuugi also kind of disproved the whole Double Origin thing. Also, I don't think All the World Evil can be an Origin, cuz Ryuugi said they had to be basic concepts and don't have emotional ties to them. Apparently, Avenger's Origin is actually Nothingness like Shiki's.

I still think the Mud could mess with stuff. And I also like the idea of a Shirou with a different Origin/Element. Oh well, at least it's got people thinking...

 

Ryuugi's far more knowledgeable about Nasu's canon than I am, but Shirou having Sword/Sword as his Origin/Element is backed up by the Typemoon wiki. The wiki cites this official source:

Has Nasu already discredited this supplementary info?

edit: A lot of Fate/Complete Material III is available here: http://completematerial.pbworks.com/w/page/32479544/Index

There's some surprisingly good info there, including a Q&A with Nasu Kinoko. There's also good stuff in the Unsorted Translations part as well.

 

Ah, what i meant by Double origin was the Hatred/Sword thing. His origin can not be both of those at once. My first thought went to the Fire kind of tainting Sword Origin and making it something more along the lines of "Sword that strike hatred," but the only word I could think to shorten it to was Vengeance or something. And an Origin can't be something as complex as emotion o that was out too.

I have a new (revised) idea though, that I just kind of got frustrated at Frantic at, because I had no idea if it'd work.

To get this out of the way: Avalon is not implanted in Shirou's soul and just sealed inside him normally, because Kiritsugu knew some healing magic/had some kind of other magic healing aid on him. This results in Shirou keeping his original Origin.

Shirou's Origin/Element is Reflection, or "To take on the qualities of something else." During the Fire, Shirou accidentally took on permanent qualities from the Mud in the air. (Rage, Hatred, Madness) These qualities are tempered by qualities from Avalon and Kiritsugu and his Ideals.

This gives him room for a different personality, a different skillset and will still hopefully keep him from dying during the war.

 

To be fair, I also didn't state what kind of undead are there as well. You could have Lovecraftian horrors, D&D-type Archdemons, anything really.

Red after he beats the Elite 4. Harry after Voldemort truly dies. Naruto after he returns from his trip with Jiraya.

Imagine the three thrown in the middle of some war-torn dimension, like Warcraft 3, or Warhammer 40k or maybe Star Wars.

 

The Blood War, maybe?

 

Well Shirou's magecraft would still be sword based Smile, just no NPS to throw around. With some decent sword mystic codes, or even just plain ole reinforced swords he could still be a decent threat.

 

Thanks for the link, I didn't know that Emiya received his red coat from Ciel.

 

If you want to use a Berserker element in your character then wouldn´t it be easier to use Shini from Tsukihime?

Because the rage thing would pretty much destroy everything that makes Shirou so special, at least in my eyes.

 

I've read some good fics that used Shirou, Harry Potter, Naruto, et al. as an empty protagonist-shaped template and not been disappointed. I don't really see a problem with it so long as the changes have purpose.

 

Meh, I would rather have a more generic protagonist from another series fill the slot. Even though Shirou wants to be a hero like so many others, it is so much more complicated than most series. Seeing Shirou being as complicated as Naruto/Luffy is rather annoying. It is amusing however to see people fail and try to write Shriou's character.