So the Battle of Hogwarts is finished, bodies buried, bad guys captured or killed and the New Ministry is establishing itself.

People are quite obviously going to be getting awards and commendations, partly because they earned them, and partly to show what the ministry stands for, by giving awards to people who fought on the side of "good" they are firmly showing their allegiance.

We know Dumbledore already had a Order of Merlin 1st class, but we dont know what for, we also know Lockhart had one of the Third order and one of the long dead Blacks had I think a Second degree Order for giving a bunch of money to the ministry (not the official reason, but what Sirius said).

So who do you think would get what awards? These would probably be decided by the likes of Kingsley, Mr Weasly, maybe Harry, and anyone else left alive who holds rank in the Ministry.


What I was thinking:


Order of Merlin 1st Class:

Harry Potter (Probably a whole list of reason giving at the award ceremony but mostly for the defeat of Voldemort)

Severus Snape (For bringing about the means to end Voldemort, I dont like the guy, but its said that Harry makes sure he gets the recognition he deserves, and he was instrumental, maybe even more so than Dumbledore, in the defeat of Voldemort. You dont have to like him to say he deserves the award)



Order of Merlin Second Class:


Ron Weasly: For the destruction of artifacts instrumental in the downfall of Voldemort and playing key roles in many skirmishes with his forces.

Hermione Granger: same as above. (Personally Hermione is one of my least favorite characters but I admit she was key in many events)

Albus Dumbledore: Destruction of Artifacts, prevention of the rise of Voldemort for several years and self sacrifice to Hogwarts.

Neville Longbottom: Destruction of Artifacts, leading resistance movements in occupied Hogwarts.



Order of Merlin Third Class:

Remus Lupin: For key role in infiltrating the forces of Darkness and self sacrifice in the Battle of Hogwarts. (He is probably more deserving of a standard commendation but by giving a werewolf a Order of merlin, probably the first ever to get it, it paves the way for more rights to "Dark Creatures")

Minerva: For the safe keeping and valiant protection of the Students of Hogwarts during the year of occupation and the Battle of Hogwarts, primarily her final duel with Voldemort.

Slughorn: Same as above (For all that he is a sleazy used car salesmen most of the time, he did leave the castle with the younger students, then came back with half a fucking town to seal the battle with the Death Eaters)

Firenze: (If he'd accept it) For protection of students of Hogwarts and gathering of Allies. (Kinda the same reason as Remus, its more symbolic of greater unity than for him personally)

Kingsley: Leader of resistance during the year of occupation and key role in Battle of Hogwarts including the final duel with Voldemort.

Rufus: For tireless fight against the rise of Voldemort and for composure under torture in not revealing the location of individuals key to the war effort.

Amelia Bones: Same as above mostly. Also her and Rufus show a unity between the old ministry and new which helps establish the legitimacy of it.


Official Ministry Commendation:

Everyone who fought (alive and dead) in the Battle of Hogwarts and other major skirmishes in the war (like Sirius). Usually Remus and Firenze would be here as normal, albeit brave, fighters, but their natures as part humans set them up as symbols for their peoples. I think Aberforth would probably fit in here as well, he didnt do enough that we saw to justify a Order of Merlin Third class even though he did support the resistance. Madeye also didnt do anything particularly amazing apart from being killed, maybe he'd get a 3rd Order one as a symbol of his lifes work... Not sure is Molly deserves a third class for taking out Bellatrix (Even if it was stupid it did happen).



Anyone else I am forgetting or anyone you'd move up or down?

 

I don't think Snape should be awarded because while his actions were important for Voldemort's defeat, giving him an Order of Merlin goes against what his character stood for. He was a total asshole who was hated while he was alive and it remained that way in his death. Harry and Dumbledore should be given first class and Moody should be given second class. The rest can be given third class which nobody cares about.

 

I think anyone who destroys a Horcrux is pretty much a shoe in for a Second Class.

But that goes towards the question, did the greater public know about Horcruxes? Did Harry explain what he was doing or did he cover it up so no other up and coming Darklords would do the same. The reason Dumbledore didnt tell everyone and get the ministry helping find them is because he didnt want Voldemort to find out he knew about them.

Snapes being an arse was important while alive so he could do his role. Now he's dead there is no reason not to admit he played his role (even if it did come naturally to him) and made huge sacrifices to the cause.

 

I had this whole interesting 'should they or shouldn't they' prompt queued up for Reddit, but it turns out Harry taunted Voldemort in front of the whole crowd at the Battle of Hogwarts that "There are no more Horcruxes." Stupid git should learn to keep his advantages to himself.

As for awards, I'd give everyone at the Battle of Hogwarts on the winning side a new kind of award, on the basis that the Order of Merlin had lost meaning. Covenant of the Phoenix, perhaps. First class to known members of the Order and the DA, Second class to other defenders, Covenant of the Burning to those killed in the line of duty. First recipient of the CotB would be Cedric Diggory Lily Evans, of course.

No special recognition for Harry except that he's registered as receiving CotB while still alive, for some odd reason.

 

I dont think the Order of Merlin has lost its luster, although two of the three we know of are hacks...

But I always find the idea of new awards pointless.

In New Zealand we got rid of the old system of Knighthoods ect and made "The New Zealand Order of Merit". More people have turned down the honor since the switch than ever before. Old awards hold a certain dignity and pagentry to them that no new award does.

The Nobel Prize was originally just an okay award that was made popular because it came with a pretty big cash prize unlike many. But the older it gets the more prestigious it gets, because you know your in the company of Einstein and Bohr. Also the reason why the peace prize is a joke compared to the other prizes, newer and given to idiots.

 

I don't think Harry would have cared all that much about awards. Maybe to the point of turning them down.

I also don't think he would have told anyone - not even Kingsley - about the horcruxes.

 

He's to polite to turn it down, and there is no way they couldn't give him one. He'd probably just put conditions on it like "If I have to get one so does Snape and Sirius".

 

Holy buckets, someone call MKNote-

CANON disagrees!

 

He's talking to Voldemort there, who obviously already knows about the horcruxes. He also talks about his mastery of the Elder Wand in that conversation, but then a few hours later expects no one to know he has the Elder Wand. While the conversation is clearly not private, Harry apparently thinks it is.

 

Fuck fuck fuck, lock the thread before the rip spreads and takes the whole board!

 

Are you for real?

I'd just made mention of how foolish it was that Harry blabbed it a few posts above yours. I quoted the...

(jeez- talk about the Flaw in the Plan...)

On occasion, it is healthy to practice this small phrase for the sake of perspective if not humility:

'Oh, I guess I was wrong.'

 

I was already aware of the passage quoted. It's the climax of the books. Kinda difficult to forget. Nonetheless: I doubt Harry went around shouting from the rooftops how easy it is to become immortal if only you kill 7 people.

Would you have been happier if I had disclaimed, in my original post, that I consider it to be true regardless of the passage you mention? Because I was going to, but thought it unnecessary.

All the passage shows is that Harry is an idiot, not that he intended to inform everyone about horcruxes. Harry being an idiot is already well known.

Regardless, Harry's willingness to mention the horcruxes in a misjudged act of gloating (out of book explanation: JKR needed to explain what the hell was going on as it was deus ex) does not mean he has informed people about them in detail. Horcruxes are beyond obscure. Harry's mention of them in a conversation would only mean people know about them if a) they're able to remember the word correctly b) they're able to find it in a book c) they have sufficient confidence in their hearing and memory that they pay attention to the fact that he pluralised the word.

 

Meh I dont think they are super obscure, Dumbledore censored information about them, but we can assume well qualified wizards from before him tenure knew of them. Slughorn did and he had nothing to do with the DADA specifically, just a bog standard accademic.

Also I'd assume all Aurors are briefed on them as a matter of common sense. Also I believe it is said Harpo the Foul, a famous Dark Wizard invented them (From JKs old site) and thus any History buffs would also have passing knowledge of them.

Having people know about them is not a big deal, since they dont know how to make them, Slughorn sure didnt, and even if they did, I doubt many could make them. Apparently you have to be pretty twisted to do it, above and beyond normal evil. Voldemort and Bellatrix are the only two people I would think that could do it. Malfoy is power hungry not uber evil, Greyback is into his Werewolf superiority bit, and the Carrows are just weird.

 

That's pretty much entirely speculation.

1. We have no idea how well-known horcruxes were before Dumbledore's censorship. We know from DH that even of those books Dumbledore took from the library, only one actually mentions how to make them/destroy them.

2. Herpo the Foul being the creator of horcruxes is told to us by the author, not revealed in book by a character. We don't know if this historical fact is known to anyone in the magical world.

3. Slughorn is far more than a "bog standard academic" (ignoring the fact that academics are the magical elite and therefore there's nothing bog standard about them). He is one of the three who had the dubious honour of being sufficiently skilled to confront Voldemort directly in the final battle. He had sufficient knowledge of the Dark Arts for a 16 year old Tom Riddle to respect his opinion and know that he was the best source of knowledge. He knows enough occlumency to repel Dumbledore's legilimency.

To speculate myself:

I'd put the number of people in Britain who know what horcruxes are, post DH, at maybe 5-6. Including Harry, Ron, Hermione and Slughorn.

 

Its said in HBP that the topic of Horcruxes was discussed by the staff and that Dumbledore is specifically hard on the topic not being raised. That would imply every single teacher at Hogwarts at the time had knowledge of them. Tom said he would have asked professor Merryweather but he didnt think he would "understand" Toms interest in them, not that he didnt know, but that Tom didnt think Merryweather would talk to him about them in the same way Slughorn would.

The idea that Aurors, Dark Wizard specialist, do not know of them, is laughable. Maybe not every single one, but senior Aurors must surely be briefed on them. That is speculation, but its also speculation that Dumbledore had a liver and two kidneys, we are never told he does, its just common sense.

Regulus Black worked them out and he was younger than Sirius... so how did a guy in a lower class than Sirius, not only know of them, but have enough knowledge to work out what Voldemort did and go get them. Either from Hogwarts or his family. Either option gives rise to the possibility that dozens of people would have the same chance to find out about them.

So I would put the number of people who know about Horcruxes much higher than 5-6. Dozens of Aurors, dozens of academics and anyone with a interest in history, and anyone like Regulus who likes to read old books. Could be hundreds all told.

And I dont think people knowing about them is a bad thing. Infact having people know about them, know how horrible it is to make them, and having everyone know how to kill them, is a good thing over all.

 

The idea that those two speculations are anywhere near each other is the laughable thing. The Aurors are borderline incompetent. That is a canon fact. You can't assume they know anything beyond "standard" magic.

Tom Riddle and Merryweather: this was clearly flattery. Tom was laying it on thick to get Slughorn to tell him.

There's a rather obvious third option you're ignoring here... Regulus was a Death Eater in contact with Voldemort, someone who had made horcruxes, and was directly involved in hiding them. He also knew they were important to Voldemort and wanted to bring him down. That's a pretty significant factor that separates him out from the rest of the wizarding world.

 

There would be a lot more semi immortal wizards about if Horcruxe's weren't so obscure :/

 

Incompetent? So who captured Bellatrix and her Husband first time round? Who captured all the other Death Eaters in Azkaban? Who does Voldemort run from in the atrium? You've been reading to much shitty fan fiction.

You kinda missed the point where Slughorn says they are discussed in the staff meetings and Dumbledore says not to teach them. ALL Hogwarts teachers at the time would know. Why, WHY, whould Slughorn know about them but not the DADA Professor?

Tom is flattering Slughorn in the fact that he implies Slughorn understands the desire for knowledge, not that he has secret super uber tier 7 hidden knowledge.

You think Voldemort tells his Death Eaters about them?

To use logic you've used in the past.

Voldemort is said to have designed the defenses of the Horcruxes (Dumbledore says he recognized Toms magic), and its never even implied anyone else knew or helped in their making or hiding. So we assume its a solo effort unless shown otherwise.

How would Regulus work out what they are unless he had some idea that Horcruxes existed in the first place?

How did he know the word, and know what it was? Unless you think Voldemort sat him down and told him, which I think is so unlikely as to be counter to everything we know about Voldemort. Regulus had to have some outside knowledge about them which he then pieced togther with stuff he saw Voldemort do, to work out whats happening.

 

I think the opposite rather more likely. He had a access to a selection of facts (Voldemort is immortal, Voldemort is obsessed with avoiding death, Voldemort is hiding objects which are very important to him, whatever he can learn from Kreacher) and follow the trail until he arrives at discovering horcruxes. He has a rather significant advantage there in that the Blacks have a library which is not subject to censorship. Presumably that's where he found out what they were. But note that neither Bellatrix nor Lucius knew what horcruxes were. They had no idea what they were holding when Voldemort gave them the Diary and the Cup.

The Death Eaters are also pretty incompetent. (See: every time they interact with Harry). Also, Aurors have a numerical advantage.

Voldemort runs from Dumbledore, obviously.

Every time the Aurors have had to do something they've failed. Find Sirius Black: failure. Arrest Dumbledore: failure. Arrest Death Eaters: Stan Shunpike. Trail Dumbledore: failure. The only Aurors worth their salt are the ones who are also Order Members. I.e. they're good wizards in spite of being Aurors, not because of it. Can you name a single successful Auror action in the main series which is purely Ministry business, not connected to the Order?

 

I could go for this although I think both out ideas are equally likely. Either way he has access to information about them, and if he did, others did, and if other did, more than 6 people know about them.

Numbers... we are never given clear numbers on either side. It think they would actually be pretty even, the Aurors didnt seem to be a huge department. Ministy workers in gerneral far out number Death Earters, but Aurors to Death Eaters... I wouldnt think the ratio would be more than 2 to 1 either way from what we see...

The Death Eaters, with no obvious aid from Voldemort apart from planning, fully take over the ministry with in 3 months of Dumbledores death. Probably the single most sucessful gorrila campaign in history.

Their encounters with Harry... come on, he has a character shield. Also Voldemort told them in the Graveyard and Ministry that Harry is for him only.

Voldemort fights Dumbledore head on, he runs from the Aurors.

Taking out the Order Members, how kind of you to take out the two best Aurors.

Please name me a good Hogwarts Teacher thats not a Head of House? Also I believe we only see two people who arent Order Aurors, Dawlish and Rufus, ones taken out by Dumbledore and the other withstood torture to not reveal where Harry was.

Failure to find Sirius... Really? The guy in charge of that case was in on the conspiracy to hide him. So really, the Aurors did find him... they just didnt report it.

Stan Shunpike wasnt really an Auror incompetency thing so much as a corrupt government thing.

Trailing Dumbledore.... its Dumbledore.

We dont see anything of non Order Aurors apart from Dawlish taking on Dumbledore so its impossible to say how good they do. We know they rounded up the Death Eaters at the end of the last war okay.