1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

The Population of Magical UK

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    More stuff developed as world-building for The One He Feared.

    The Demographics of Magical Britain, With a Focus on Economy

    Canon Status

    This document has been prepared to help inform the fanfiction story The One He Feared, which takes place in a canon-like world. This means that the story tries to not contradict canon (so far there is just one contradiction, which is the date of the creation of the ICW), and that extensions to the story universe try to maintain the tone of JKR’s world. As such the content of this document is not applicable to my other stories like Alexandra Potter, which takes place in a moderately significant AU (though some world-building between the two stories is shared).

    A Note on Dates

    All information in this document is about the state of the world in 1997, unless otherwise stated.

    Global and Political Context

    The political entity “magical Britain” is a unitary magical state which has jurisdiction over the territories of England, Scotland, and Wales and Northern Ireland. It is more correctly called the magical United Kingdom, but that’s a bit wordy. “Britain” and “United Kingdom” will therefore be used interchangeably.

    The total population of Britain is around 60 million.

    Britain is one of a group of countries considered highly magical -- i.e. having a significant magical population. Magical demographers have considered several reasons for this, the most popular theory being that Britain (and Western Europe more generally) sits in a highly magical geographical area, as exhibited by the wide range of magical animals and plants on the isles.. Other theories are that the high magical population in Britain has a human cause: that the highly developed state of magical education and activity in Britain itself engenders a higher rate of magical births. A third cause may be the consistently high rate of magical immigration to Britain, especially high during the late 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.

    Whatever the cause, Britain’s magical population is consistently high, with a high rate of Muggleborn births.

    Other highly magical countries include: Ireland, France, Italy, Greece, Germany, Egypt, China, Japan, Peru, Transylvania and Ethiopia. Other nations may have within their borders highly magical areas, such as India, the United States, and parts of Central America. However, these nations also include areas of relative magical drought.

    Deriving a Magical Population Figure for Britain

    The life expectancy of a magical person is 170 years.

    An average year at Hogwarts consists of 40 students.

    90% of the population attend Hogwarts (the remaining 10% either refusing entry, unable to afford entry and not qualifying for assistance, or seeking alternative education such as home tuition, apprenticeships or foreign schools).

    There are therefore around 45 magical children born each year, each one of whom will live an average of 170 years.

    The total magical population of Britain is therefore around 7650.

    (The Quidditch World Cup is a truly global event with a very high percentage of the entire world’s magical population attending).

    The magical population of Britain thus constitutes around 0.00013% of the total population of Britain.

    There are around 325,000 wizards and witches in the world. Britain has just under 2% of the world’s magical population. In contrast, it has around 1% of the world’s total population.

    Geographical Distribution

    A good proportion of the magical population lives in the all-magical village of Hogsmeade in Scotland, where around 2000 magical people live. This is the location in Britain with the highest density of magical people, especially with Hogwarts nearby. Hogwarts itself is home to around 300 people for most of the year.

    London has the greatest number of magical people living within its borders: around 2500. They are mostly clustered near to Diagon Alley.

    Another 1000 wizards can be found in other urban areas around Britain.

    The remaining 2000 wizards and witches are scattered around Britain in rural communities, often living near to but not within the borders of small towns and villages.

    Economic Distribution

    Children

    Children come of age at age 17, but will typically leave education at age 18 (turning 18 during their 7th year at Hogwarts).

    Total: 810 (around 10% of the population)

    Retirees

    Wizards typically retire at age 145 (at which time they physically resemble a Muggle of 65 years, the conversation factor being magical age * 0.45 = muggle age), giving them an average retirement of 25 years.

    Total: 1125 (around 14% of the population)

    Quidditch

    There are 18 Quidditch teams in Britain (Irish teams also compete in the British league but are not counted here as they are part of the population of Ireland).

    Each team has 7 players, plus a coach or two, plus several reserve players. On top of this they will have a member of administrative staff, and someone to take care of their stadium/grounds. The average number of people involved in a given Quidditch team is thus around 15 people.

    Total: 270

    Hogwarts

    Hogwarts typically offers 13 classes (including flying) at any given time. Each subject has one teacher. There is also a headmaster, a groundskeeper, a nurse and a caretaker. Additional teachers may also be added to the staff for the teaching of other subjects, subject to demand.

    Total: 18.

    Retail, Hospitality and Services

    There are no corporations, or any other form of limited liability business in wizarding Britain: all businesses are sole traders or partnerships with full liability. There is no stock market. Most shops produce the items they sell themselves, but not all.

    There are two main shopping districts in wizarding Britain: London and Hogsmeade.

    London is the largest, consisting of around 75 businesses, divided between Diagon Alley and Knockturn Alley.

    Hogsmeade is home to around 25 businesses.

    There are some other businesses located around the country in tucked away within Muggle communities. These number around 5.

    While there is significant variation in staff numbers, on average each business will have one owner/manager, two assistants and two craftspeople of some kind.

    Examples of businesses: clothes, apothecaries, potions, grocers, brooms, stationery, bookshops, pets, construction services including protective charms, legal services, pubs and restaurants, inns and hotels, brooms, domestic and international travel agents, entertainment, luxury goods, furniture, specialised magical instruments and equipment, antiques, wands, gardening, music, jewellery and other accessories.

    Total: 525

    Industry and Creative

    Industry refers to the production of goods for sale, when the goods produced are not sold directly to the consumer by the business (in which case the business is counted under retail). Creative refers to writers, artists, etc.

    Broom makers: Britain is a world leader in broom design and production. There are four main companies: Nimbus, Firebolt, Cleansweep and Comet. Each will have an owner, two sales staff, two designers and five enchanters. There are also a few other, smaller companies. Industry estimate: 50 people.

    Publishing: Britain has two newspapers, around 7 monthly magazines, and two book publishers. Each will have editors and contributing writers, as well as administrative staff and those who work the press and distribution. Industry staff: 45. Full-time writers: 25. (Most writers will have other jobs). Total: 70 people.

    Other British industries (people):

    Parchment (10), Other Stationary (5), Textiles (5), Branded Food (10), Furniture (3), Muggle Import Services (5), silversmiths (10), other creation of enchanted objects e.g. photography equipment (120). Other creative e.g. portrait makers, musicians (100).

    Total: 300

    Agriculture

    Agriculture refers here to all businesses which grow or otherwise acquire raw materials.

    Arable farming. Magical farming methods are extremely efficient, especially when it comes to crops. The entire wizarding population is serviced by three relatively small farms, each staffed by no more than 5 people. Total: 15.

    Livestock farming. Livestock farming isn’t quite as efficient as crops, but magic still increases production dramatically. There are eight livestock farms owned by magical people in Britain, each one with around 8 employees. Total: 60.

    Magical animals. Magical animals are used as pets, guardians, and as potions ingredients. There are around 70 species of magical animal native to the UK, and of those most are farmed, some of them by multiple farms. There are therefore around 85 magical breeders in Britain, though each one has only around 3 staff (much smaller animal populations than animals for food consumption). Total: 225.

    Magical plants. Magical plants are both grown in greenhouses and harvested from the wild. There are a number of large greenhouses in the UK, around 20. Each one has around 5 members of staff. There are also around 10 smaller, more specialist herbologists working alone. Total: 110.

    Other materials demanded by the magical population, such as certain metals, chemicals, and other substances (e.g. sea salt from a particular region). Total: 20 people.

    Merchants. Merchants conduct international trade in food, animals, plants and other materials. Total: 10.

    Total: 440

    Healthcare

    St. Mungo’s Hospital is the only public magical hospital in Britain, funded by the Ministry of Magic and private donors. 25 healers, 40 mediwitches, 10 administrative staff, 5 apprentice healers. Total: 80.

    Other healthcare includes private healers and alternative healthcare. 10 people.

    Total: 90.

    Finance

    Most finance in Britain is handled by the goblins, who are not included in this summary of witches and wizards. However, some wizards and witches do get involved in finance, generally working for the goblins. 25 people.

    Tourism

    Britain is home to a number of historically interesting sites, and has a few museums.

    Total: 17 people.

    Communications

    Owl offices: 30 people.

    Wizarding radio: 3 channels, 15 presenters per channel. 50 people total.

    Total: 80 people.

    Non-Ministry Public

    NGOs like the Knight Bus, various institutes, think tanks, charities etc.

    Total: 100.

    Idle Rich

    Those who do not work, generally due to inherited wealth. Typically landed, may own parts of Diagon Alley, Hogsmeade, wizarding agriculture. Not including children, who are already counted above.

    Total: 80.

    Unemployed Poor

    Those unable or unwilling to find work, who are not independently wealthy.

    Total: 150.

    Unemployed Homemakers

    Housewives/husbands who do not work at all.

    Total: 500.

    Criminals

    Inhabitants of Azkaban.

    Total: 150.

    Unaccounted

    Those who slipped through the census. Abroad, in hiding, in transit at the time of the census, etc.

    Total: 50.

    Ministry of Magic

    The Ministry of Magic is by far the largest employer in magical Britain, employing around 2800 wizards and witches. A great part of its functions relate to keeping the wizarding world secret and safe, but it also regulates most areas of magical life.

    Minister’s Office: 50
    Undersecretaries (5), advisors (25), administrators (10), press secretaries (10).

    Department of Magical Law Enforcement: 350
    Aurors (35), Hitwizards (70), Improper Use of Magic (70), Wizengamot Administration Services (80), Other Offices and Admin (95).

    Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes: 800
    Reversal Squad (100), Obliviators (150), Muggle Liaison Office (400), Excuse Committee (50), Invisibility Taskforce (100)

    Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures: 400

    Department of International Magical Cooperation: 400

    Department of Magical Transportation: 150

    Department of Magical Games and Sports: 80

    Department of Mysteries: 50

    Treasury: 200

    Other Ministry Offices: 200

    Career Politicians: 25

    Wizengamot: 50

    GDP of Magical Britain

    1 galleon = 5 pounds sterling.

    If we take magical Britain to be economically on the same level as Muggle Britain, we can just use Muggle GDP per capita figures to calculate the GDP:

    Muggle GDP per capita: 22,000GBP
    Conversion to Galleons: G4400

    Total magical population: 7650.
    GDP of magical Britain: G33,660,000 (~168 million GBP)

    There are many reasons why this figure is somewhat unrealistic, however. The wizarding world lacks any kind of sophisticated banking or finance system, which adds huge value to the Muggle economy. Moreover, the nature of magic means that magical UK is essentially an unindustrialised country. There’s very little division of labour, and no mass production. The public sector of magical Britain is extremely large. International trade is relatively small, as are international capital flows. Economies are unspecialised and do not take advantage of competitive advantages.

    On the other hand, agricultural employment is very small in magical Britain compared to Muggle Britain, freeing up large parts of the population for skilled labour/artisan/craftsperson types of jobs -- these jobs constitute the vast majority of the private sector economy. This is further pronounced by the lack of any large scale mining/refining business. As such the magical economy is not equitable with pre-industrial Muggle economies, which are focused around agriculture. A very high percentage of magical employment is tertiary sector employment, typically the most lucrative type of employment. Magic has largely automated, made unnecessary or significantly reduced labour needs of primary and secondary sector employment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  2. Another Empty Frame

    Another Empty Frame Fake Flamingo DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Near Seattle
    High Score:
    1801
    I really like this breakdown (I was just thinking about this stuff recently) and I'm curious if like with some of the behind the scenes work for Alex Potter that I've seen you also intend to use this for IED and Alex Potter. I'm also curious as to your comments and ideas on the real estate business(es) or lack thereof

    Also how you would justify necessity of clothing and furniture stores, I've got my own thoughts on why magical people have businesses for these (specialized charms that go past creation and basic upkeep) but I still am curious what you think.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Most people are shit at Transfiguration.

    Even those rare individuals who can perform a complete Transfiguration -- i.e. one that has no remnants of the prior object, and thus a permanent change -- can't necessarily make something that looks good/is comfortable.

    I don't intend to use this for Alex Potter, as stated at the start. The magical population in Alexandra Potter is closer to 30,000.

    Real estate: I touched upon this in the Idle Rich section. I imagine that most land is owned by the old pureblood families.

    Random corollary of the above:

    The richest person in the UK has $18billion, UK GDP is 2.434 trillion. That's 0.7% of the GDP. So if the GDP of magical Britain is G33,660,000, it would not be unreasonable to say the richest person in magical Britain would have 0.7% of that...

    So the richest person in magical Britain should have around 235,620 galleons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  4. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    975
    Location:
    Right behind You...
    Your analysis is impressive, except in one regard: the numbers.

    Rowling herself had admitted time and time again she is not good at Math. She has stated she didn't think it through when she decided on 40 kids a year.

    You claim there are 325,000 wizards in the whole world. You also claim there are 7,650 wizards in Britain.

    Both of these numbers, pardon my French, are bullshit. They do not make for a long-term viable population. Either the wizarding population has declined to insanely-dangerous levels, or they can actually have kids born of incest without any major defects.

    I admit demographics are not my specialty, so I can't give an alternative possibility on how many wizards live in Britain. But if I had to guess, British wizards would certainly be closer to the 325,000 you claim exist in the entire planet.

    Taure, I admire and respect your knowledge of all things Harry Potter. But when anyone looks into the numbers of the Canon HP Universe too much (be it population or the money), the flaws will be quite obvious.
     
  5. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Your world population figures are wrong. Britain has about 1% of total world population (60 mil out of 6000 mil) - not 0,01% - and if you want to have truly significantly higher density of wizards in Britain either there will be less in total or more in Britain.

    anyway, the number of muggleborn wizards (if we assume there is any relation to the size of normal population), Hogwarts being only school in Britain and the ridiculously humongous quidditch world cup stadion are all just contradictory to each other.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  6. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    325,000 wizards in the UK is an absurd number. It would not produce the society we see in canon, which largely resembles a small town, nor is there any evidence in the books at all for a population of that size.

    There are numerous ways 7500 wizards in a country is viable. Muggleborns, for example, are a constant source of immigration. And marriages with Muggles exist too.

    Edited.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  7. Shymer

    Shymer Third Year

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    France
    About the number of children per year, isn't it more than 40? I mean, in Harry's year it's 40 children but they were born in a time of conflict. So I would expect more from the other years.

    I think it was stated that they were about 200 students in Slytherin alone during a Quidditch match (quote probably needed, sorry). So an average of 25-30 students /year in one house.
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    When it comes to canon, my strategy is that I take what we see as being more authoritative than what we're told.

    We only ever see a certain number of students, we're never told of any more than one teacher per subject. JKR's class list only has 40 students in Harry's year.

    That has greater authority than being told there's 1000 students at Hogwarts, I think.
     
  9. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    Germany occupied Greece
    High Score:
    4495+2362
    Your figures for the Ministry employees seem absurd to me. Are you writing this under the assumption that there are more Ministry buildings other than the one in London?

    Things that stood out to me:
    Reversal Squad (100), Obliviators (150), Muggle Liaison Office (400), Excuse Committee (50), Invisibility Taskforce (100)
    All of these, but particularly the muggle liaison office, are incredibly high numbers. Your version of Magical Britain (7.5k) has smaller population than my hometown (10k+) but occupies tens of times more people on ministerial jobs. Especially on this kind, that does not see activity every day, or even that often, unless there's a big impromptu gathering of wizards in muggle areas.
    Seriously, 150 Obliviators? 400 Muggle Liaisons?
    Also, these:
    Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures: 400
    Department of International Magical Cooperation: 400 (why so many?)
    Department of Magical Games and Sports: 80
    Treasury: 200 (seriously, what?)

    I don't know, maybe I'm just underestimating how much work the remaining population could create for these hundreds of people to do every day, but I don't think so.

    Εdit: As I wrote this, I did have in mind that a muggle governing body will require less people due to having less demands, but at the same time the wizards have no need of many labor-specific jobs that muggles do, that are part of such a body.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Muggle Liaisons included, in my mind, peoples whose job it is to monitor every aspect of the Muggle world, in particular their communications and government, for any hint of magic -- either Muggles gaining knowledge of magic, or wizards using magic to take advantage of Muggle institutions. Kinda like Ministry of Magic does NSA. In that respect, 400 is quite conservative. The number of obliviators is because a) there are a lot of Muggles and b) the Ministry needs a large number of them in case of significant breaches of security e.g. if thousands of people need Obliviating all at once. Which has happened -- see Fantastic Beasts.

    At least one diplomat for each country in the world, plus administrative staff.

    It's never mentioned in canon, but the Ministry of Magic must get money somehow, which almost certainly means taxes, which means tax collectors and officials. I also imagined the Ministry getting gold through other means e.g. through having their own Curse Breakers going treasure hunting.

    Most Ministry work doesn't relate to their own population, but to Muggles. I imagine that if the Ministry disappeared, magic would be exposed to the world within a few days, maximum.

    That said, I think you underestimate the ability of a government to create work for itself: see regulation on cauldron bottom thickness. I also think you overestimate the average civil servant's productivity. Writing a tiny piece of legislation like that could take a team of several people a year. Then, once in place, it will create several new jobs as it will now be the Ministry's responsibility to have several employees spend all day every day going around shops, places of work, and homes to check peoples' cauldron bottoms. And then a year later the legislation is repealed or needs updating in some way, and the cycle begins again...
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  11. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    I'd say the numbers for retirees and unemployed are vastly underestimated in Taure's table. There's no reason for average wizard to work until 145, unless they really want to. And spending over hundred years as a lover level bureaucrat (which would be pretty much the only alternative for most people with those figures) would lead to a massive amount of self induced deaths in the population...
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I was actually thinking it was a bit early. 25 years of retirement is a lot of years to live with no income.
     
  13. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    High Score:
    3,164
    The richest person in wizarding Britain only being worth roughly 1m GBP doesn't really make any sense. In a smaller economy, the outliers will be significantly larger than in a large economy. Even if wizards are further along the post-scarcity scale than muggles (which does not seem entirely obvious in canon), consider how easy it is to be worth 1m GPB in the 90s, especially with such a lifespan. I understand the lack of comparative advantage opportunities between wizards, but as soon as somebody realized you could make more money in the muggle world than in the wizarding world, wages would immediately shoot up. Unskilled labor would go work for muggles to compensate.
     
  14. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    And yet we have youngish people in all the highest positions of power in the Ministry. Amelia Bones is Susan's aunt and can't be much more than 60 years old, Arthur is head of his own sub-department, Percy rises into position of Crouches personal aide at the age of 19? Where are the old people? Are they just demoted into janitors? Even Dumbledore is young by that standard.

    Not to say anything about the teaching staff in Hogwarts.
     
  15. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    @t3t:

    I agree it's a bit on the small side. Not least because the land they own should produce a lot in rent alone. It's an interesting ballpark figure, though.

    That said, I'm not sure how open a labour market there is. I can see the Ministry being highly suspicious of wizards going to work in the Muggle world.

    Regarding people mentioning the Quidditch World Cup Stadium: I'm quite happy to say fully 1/3 of the entire world's magical population was in attendance. It works in several ways:

    1. It emphases the sense that the wizarding world is a small community in the way they do things.

    2. When long distance transport is instantaneous it makes sense that travelling to big events is less of an issue.

    3. It's superior to the alternative, which is that either there are whole parts of Hogwarts -- including masses of characters in Harry's year, right in Gryffindor with him -- that are never mentioned, or other significant magical schools in Britain.

    Why?

    A sub-department of two employees (including himself) and a single drab office. A sub-department isn't necessarily a big deal.

    1. He's a straight O student.
    2. There are rather unique circumstances.
    3. Aide.

    I imagine in the hundreds of jobs not mentioned in your post. For example, Madam Marshbanks who examined Dumbledore when he was 17 and is still doing the same job in 1995.

    Yes. He was still rather spry. Were it not for Voldemort's return I imagine he would have continued at Hogwarts for a few more decades.

    What about them? We only know the (rough) ages of Dumbledore, Snape and McGonagall.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  16. Jeram

    Jeram Elder of Zion ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    143
    High Score:
    1756
    I'm pretty sure that there is this quote from Book #1:

    The reason I'm so sure is because I just transcribed it from book one. Now, obviously Hagrid isn't necessarily correct about it, but I think it makes sense that the Ministry is primarily concerned with Muggles. As for Taure's second point, entrenched bureaucracy makes perfect sense. The numbers are weird, but magical society is weird. I think we could probably tweak them a little, though.
     
  17. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,067
    I too have a problem with the number of ministry employees. For one I think you underestimate wizard mobility. I would expect those sort of numbers with field offices. There is no need for any with apparition/portkeys etc. Unless of course you intend to nerf them.

    I also suspect you are making up those numbers based on some kind of proportion taken from real governments. That won't really work with a population this small. You have a press secretary for every 760 people and a LEO for every 21. Some things just don't scale well.

    There is also the argument that there is no way in hell a government this sophisticated would ever develop with a population this small. Yes government makes work for itself, but only if they are given the opportunity. There is no opportunity if you can gather the entire population of the country into a large room and explain the situation to them.
     
  18. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I was thinking that "other Ministry offices" needs to be bigger, so could probably steal a few people from the other departments. Consider the WEA alone:

    The team of practical examiners
    People to write the tests every year, plus back up tests
    Markers
    A secretary or two

    It should also be mentioned, with regard to the other numbers, that they include administrative staff. Every obliviation, every visit to check a person is correctly disguising their pets, every time you send a wizard to renew charms keeping a location hidden, every time something vaguely suspicions is mentioned by a Muggle... all of these need to have a report written about them, then that report needs to be signed off by at least one superior, then archived correctly, maintained by an archivist and made available to anyone who needs to see it... A single obliviation is a day's work.

    And to prevent abuse, they probably send more than one obliviator on any given trip, each of which has to write a separate report. So a single obliviation could be a day's work for two people, plus some work for whoever has to handle the report. For example, a member of the Muggle Worthy Excuses Committee has to check the report to make sure the replacement memory is "Muggle Worthy". And at various set periods after the obliviation the obliviated person has to be checked on to make sure that the charm is holding and to make sure they aren't bonkers as a result of a badly cast charm.

    It's not hard to see how bureaucracies grow.

    Nah, I just always pictured the Ministry being around 50% of the wizarding world in terms of employment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  19. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Going with the Pottermore information Sprout is about the same age as McGonagall, in her 60's at the time of Harry's career. And she retires in time for Neville to take over "ninenteen years later". Slughorn is said to be younger than Dumbledore, and he retired in the 80's. That's three head of houses - again the highest position - under 100 year old. Even if we allow "special circumstances" for Snape.

    Then we have Lockhart, Lupin and Hagrid, none of whom are old.
     
  20. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,837
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I generally don't go with Pottermore information. A lot of the revisions contained within bring the wizarding world more in line with the Muggle one. That said:

    1. Leaving Hogwarts does not necessarily mean you retire completely.

    2. Slughorn retired early to live a life of comfort. No one raises an eyebrow when he returns to work, probably well into his 100s.

    3. McGonagall's age was downgraded. She was originally said to be around 80.

    4. It kinda makes sense not to have too old people teaching young people.

    5. Competence seems more important than age/seniority when it comes to getting Head of House.

    Anyway, we know that wizards can work into their late years, we know that they can live a very long time and we have no reason to think magical UK is a socialist paradise where you can comfortably live half of your life off the state - the economy is a mirror in miniature of the Muggle economy, just with a magical twist. The natural conclusion is that most wizards have to work much longer than Muggles.
     
Loading...