Is it bad that I hope Michonne slices up the governor's "family" right in front of him - including the little girl?

But yeah in the talking dead scene from next week he talked about the prison crew realizing their people are missing so that means that he captured Michonne and the other guys who he found chilling at the end of the episode.

 

Already an intense episode.

It's unfortunate the Governor has so many follower types. Gonna have to put 'em down.

LATER EPISODE EDIT

Michonne follows through, and the prison got an Extreme Makeover.

Just all of my love. My pus-filled, walker infested love.

 

Wow, why do I watch this show. The feels, man.

I'm actually kind of bummed out. Baby Judith is (probably) dead, Hershel is dead, the prison is gone and the group is split up. :|

Also, looks like there is still a psycho amongst the group seeing as how that whole rat plot line was never resolved. It was probably that one little girl though.

Gah, speaking of that little girl, why did she tell them to put baby Judith down and go an fight. I mean, I appreciate that they saved Tyreese and all, but those kids left a baby on the ground in the middle of a warzone. -____- I hope they were not actually that dumb.

 

I do feel bad for Lily, the woman who had hooked up with 'Brian'. The Governor and his schemes led her family to disaster, along with Martinez and his group. Everyone died for nothing. In the Talking Dead discussion after the show, it was talked about how much of this conflict was ego. The whole damn thing.

A thing I liked about the Governor was his whole Jim Jones/Elvis in a way mannerism. Slick operator, considering he could talk a group he was new to into assuming leadership and then attacking another armed group based solely on his say so that they were thieves and killers.

The scene where the walker in the river mud grabs Lily's daughter, thought she would get out of that. Pleasantly surprised to see she didn't. Years ago little girls used to be sacred cows and had plot armor. So I think we've all progressed.

Lily bet on the wrong horse and lost everything. Lily's little sister who tried to be brave is out in the world somewhere, her daughter's gone. I'm watching the 11PM rerun of this episode right now. I honestly think the Governor thinks he can have it both ways. Be this tender, second chance, loving man while at the same time telling the world it's his way or the highway.

Good mid-season closer. Herschel, the world is poorer without you in it.

 

The trope of not killing the fucking evil guy completely needs to end, and I am really disappointed TWD used it even though the governor was killed in the end. I was yelling at my TV after Michonne stabbed him because I thought, here we go again the Governor is going to somehow get away and start shit up again.

The writers wanted a "satisfying" fight with the governor for not one, not two, but three characters. It just seemed like a cheap writing trick and really ruined by suspension of disbelief.

Other than that, pretty good episode - it just seemed like we've done this before in the prison fight in the previous season's finale. I'm happy that they're leaving the prison, though, as to me it was getting a little stale. Hopefully the group has some kind of escape plan in place so everyone knows where to go and we don't have a ton of groups at once.

 

Michonne left him to either be eaten alive by the walkers, or to come back as one like he did to Merle, Milton, and (almost) Andrea. She left him to fucking suffer through the rest of this life and the next. I say she got her revenge pretty goddamn handily. Go Michonne. Oh, and Lilly? That shot of her was like some beautiful avenging blood-soaked angel, and I loved it to pieces.

Yeah. Awesome ep was awesome, as expected. The feels over Hershel and Megan, man, and Tara and Lilly got fucked up pretty spectacularly too in the end; I hope we see them going into the back half of the season, and I expect at least one of 'em. And also, the sheer irony of Tyreese being saved by two girls trained up by the woman who killed his girlfriend, and you just know that his group's probably gonna bump into Carol next half season. And as for everyone else? Scattered to the frickin' wind. Glenn's group is probably boned, Maggie will be doing everything in her power to get back to him and Beth, as well as Sasha to get back to Tyreese. Rick and Carl... just ow. I don't think Judith's dead, too much confusion abound and she's either on the bus or one of Tyreese and the kid posse had her or Michonne went and rescued her... Yeah.

Walker Kill Of The Week to Carl, because the breakdown that followed and goddamn son that one hurt to watch. Human kill of the week? Lilly finishing off The Governor was shot goddamn beautifully, but I definitely shouted out "Holy shit" when Lizzie iced Alisha. Go Lizzie, you crazy tropical starfish.

February 9th, folks. Separation craziness will ensue.

 

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT.

Why Hershel, why. Anyone but Hershel, anyone.

(I really want to see Michonne sluaghtering zombies Ninja Gaiden style with a baby strapped to her back. And that teasing with fucking Daryl. Fuck you and your couch, TWD people.)

 

Ok, I think just after Michonne leaves the Governor for dead, there is like 2seconds scene of someone running away, that seems like Tyreese and it looks like he is holding something. Then the tank blasts the bridge just over him. Later when Rick and Carl find the child car seat, you can see that the tank made its last shot in that direction.

So I also think Judith is with Tyreese. That also explains why the girls run in the wrong direction.

 

Who ever has the baby is in trouble. Crying and screaming... asking for trouble.

Also I think more people have died due to other humans, directly or indirectly, than walkers since season 2.

 

Yeah, At this point, it's mostly casual indifference towards walkers. Even when it's unexpected, most everyone can handle themselves.

Most of the people who have made it thus far are basically expert zombie killers. The only ones who are useless and still getting killed by walkers all the time are the noobs who found a good place to camp out but had to leave(a la the governors new family).

 

Just watching the episode again.

The whole damn thing was pointless and that was what was so tragic. The Governor's group had no beef with the prison group before the Governor killed Martinez and the tank driver's brother. The Governor got the fighters he had with him into a taker mindset by labeling Rick and his group as killers, deserving of aggression.

I remember in the last episode the Governor tells the brother he has a gunpoint "You won't have to do the right thing or the wrong thing, but the only thing." Something like that. Way to lose your balls, asshole. You deserve way more of Darryl's arrows in the chest.

 

Am having some further thoughts and stuff. On the tragedy of it all, because man, it just hurts the more you think about it. Like, I know a bunch of folk have bitched that The Governor's two eps were basically repeating last season and teasing a redemption arc that ended with him going crazy again, but I'm kind of in love with how they played with audience expectation. Because no one really wanted to sympathise with The Governor, not after last year, and his two eps show him in the form of what he once was, just a man trying to keep his family alive, but then when he realises that no one's better than keeping them alive than him when he's a leader, when he's in power and can control all the variables, it becomes this thing about fighting the fate of being the bad guy. The world keeps telling him to do it, presents him with headless corpses reading "Liar" and "Rapist" and "Murderer" even, to become the crazy guy that ended up slaughtering all his men last time he failed.

And he's so close, too. Yeah he does some killin' and manipulating to get control of Martinez's group, but I think he truly believed his plan for the prison wouldn't have to end in bloodshed. He actually let go of his hatred for Michonne, admitted that he was wrong to keep Penny like he did for fuck's sake, all for Meghan and Lilly and the chance to give them security in a place full of people he wanted dead because of his vendetta from last season. But then... Rick comes out alone to face an army and a tank and two of his closest friends held hostage, and says they can try another way. That they can let go, come back from it, that they're not too far gone. Rick believes it because his whole arc in the first five episodes were about that, using Carl and Judith as anchors, and a slow burning regret over banishing Carol is gnawing at him.

And The Governor says no, says that it would never work, doesn't want to think it. Humanity as a whole has been beaten to hell by the apocalypse and become divide and conquer, survival of the fittest. Moralistic viewpoints, the ability to forgive and move on, that shit hasn't gotten a lot of groups anywhere, but it's what led Rick to letting in the Woodbury folk after Andrea's death; she didn't want anyone to die. She wanted peace. Rick, even after everything, is willing to. Keeps saying it. And that's what sets The Governor off.

He says "Liar". He says that Rick's lying because he knows that people who are too far gone can't come back, because he's one of them. Audience expectation again: we're presented with two sides who want a safe haven, one taking it from the other. The Governor's campaign does have a sympathetic light to it from an objective viewpoint, but the damage done to Team Prison is remembered by the audience, and they don't want peace with this asshole... and The Governor is one with us, because yeah, he's gone too far. He didn't want to be the leader again but became one anyway, and he didn't want bloodshed to get the prison but fuck it, it's gonna happen. He slices off Hershel's head, literally chases him down to finish the job to prove his point. It's too late.

And then... Meghan. Dead in her mother's arms, brought before him a symbol of his failure to fight destiny to become the villain - because if he didn't murder Martinez, didn't murder Pete and make Mitch his bitch, and he didn't decide the prison was his best option... Meghan might still be alive. But nope. He puts her down because he ain't repeating a Penny. And now, the reason for trying to be a decent-er version of himself is gone, so kill 'em all. Burn the prison. And his people, the group just as desperate for salvation, roll into battle and fight because the chaos increases their survival instincts, and they're being shot at by a grieving prison group after Hershel's death. So if they can't have the prison, they can at least win a battle, get what little they can from it, and go on to survive another day. Not live the lives making peace with Rick's group might've given them, but just survive under the weight of the things they've done.

They get killed, The Governor gets killed, Team Prison pulls out of their home devastated and scattered, and I imagine the history books might call it a victory one day, but goddamn it would not feel like that to anyone who was there. One side offered humanity, the other did not take it. And here's the rub: I do not think Rick's group will be offering that ever again, at least for a while. Events of this season show that they've been taking in people from all over, asking the three questions and stuff, but I imagine that being reunited will begin a zero tolerance policy, and not one led by the Ricktatorship as it was last season, but just a group that wants to survive. So... ouch.

I could write wayyyyyy more, especially on the unstated aspects that Andrea's death might've led to this climax and everyone else's character development, but I'll just say for now how much I appreciate the structure of this season's storytelling. Season 1 and the leadup to the Sophia reveal in Season 2 were structured well, but as much as I love Season 2.5 and 3, there was an element of "winging it" to it, I believe, with the showrunner in question being a solid writer and knows what he's doing with the big moments, but maybe not a great long term planner.

New showrunner change and you can piece together the building blocks of this first half season, and the ones that are going to follow through later. The thematic elements are stated a bit more openly, for example with the Greene family motto "We all got jobs to do" and Rick's "You can come back from the things you've done" stuff. But there's also the set-up going into this back half that feels nicely foreshadowed in places. Like we establish a rapport between Daryl and Beth in the first ep, who've only interacted once before ever, and it's this unlikely pair that ends up together after the prison falls and so will be bolstering each other's development for a bit.

Then we've got Tyreese who will want to kill Carol for what she did, but he also just got his life saved by her surrogate daughters having been taught by her, and Carol herself might gain some regret of going too far if the girls go Billy and Ben on themselves. There's the Rick and Carl stuff, which is so on point and emotionally weighty I love it. Bob and Sasha I think is going to be a thing, given the former's first scene was with her and then their scene in this ep, and now they're off together with Maggie and without the other two main characters responsible for showcasing their development (Tyreese for Sasha, Daryl for Bob). Maggie herself is gearing up to go full-blown badass independent chick, and the separation from Glenn will also have him bounce back spectacularly into a leadership position with the other survivors; one of the two will prolly be dead right after they reunite, and it will be sad, but we'll be assured that the other can push through of it because of the events while they're separated.

So yeah. The structure is amazeballs, and ten weeks until the back half of the season starts feels like a crazy ways away. For now I'll just be prolly rewatching and picking up cool shit like Rick's crazy friend Clara from the first episode appearing as a walker in the midseason finale. The little details! Woo!

 

My only complaint about the episode was Herschel. I mean whats the overall message for the show exactly? That there's no hope in the world now? That having hope and being optimistic about the future will lead to your head been chopped off in front of your family, your home taken and your infant daughter probably dead.

It seems like the show is saying that it will end only when every survivor is stripped of their humanity that's the only way they are going to survive and I think that's just a really shitty message for a show.

Edit:I'm not saying that the show should suddenly become sunny and happy but lets at least see that good deeds don't always have to be punished.

 

I think it was supposed to be part of that development Matt was talking about towards a less altruistic group. And they feel like they have a quota for main characters killed to fill. And I think the show is supposed to end with Rick's death?

 

I'm sorry, but I love that no one is safe in The Walking Dead. The longer they go without killing off a main character, the less intense I feel during scenes. I'm so used to seeing main characters get through anything, that I start to feel certain characters are untouchable, and I'm glad The Walking Dead is breaking that. Although some people seem to think these characters should be untouchable.

The Walking Dead isn't about sending a message, it's about people struggling to keep their humanity. When people go bad, bad things happen. Main character deaths usually always happen because of another human doing something to cause it. It's rarely just because of a Walker. It's not the end of the world and the Walkers killing our beloved characters, it's other humans.

In fact, in that one scene when a Walker is sneaking up on Daryl, I felt no sense of intensity at all. Because in my opinion, Daryl "is" off limits because fans will throw hissy fits if he does die.

 

Its not about character deaths and whether they shouldn't happen its about..how can I explain this..you talk about the show been about people struggling to keep their humanity but the people who are struggling and winning this struggle end up screwed and the overall message is, keeping your humanity equals not surviving.

We saw Herschel do good in the last few episodes. If he had died in the cell blocks that would have been better than been beheaded by the governor who in that situation was used by the writers to show that it doesn't matter how much of your humanity you keep, how much you're willing to forgive and come back from the worst that the apocalypse brought out in you, someone who isn't that is going to come along and behead you so you might as well strip yourself of that humanity if you want to survive.

We are going to go back to the group not trusting anyone else and then slowly trusting people again until another governor comes along and shows them just how wrong they are and the cycle will continue.

 

You just discovered why I quit The Walking Dead entirely. Well, except the Telltale game series. Though even that pushes it sometimes.

 

Honestly, it doesn't feel like they're unsafe. It feels like the writers are trying to fulfill a quota. It felt like they said, "Ah shit! How long's it been? Since Andrea? Welp, sorry Hersch." The Gov, I feel like, would've gone for Michonne.

As for the games, that feels like no one's safe. It's still too many fucking feels. And fuck Lilly. I sided with that bitch almost every fucking time. And I even tried to let her redeem herself.

 

The Walking Dead doesnt have a message, its not an after school special.

If anything tis message is, this is what would really happen if the world turns to shit. Humans are nasty self centred mother fuckers who will do almost anything to stay alive.

 

The moment main characters feel safe is the moment zombie fights become boring and is the moment I stop tuning in.

I was actually surprised that Michonne got away. I thought for sure they were both getting shot in the head. The reason it was Herschel is actually pretty simple. They are out of the prison. They are going to be moving from place to place quickly. Herschel can have his glorious death now or later on when his mechanical leg breaks and he gets eaten by zombies.