The thing is, keeping opinions to oneself doesn't do much. When in the context of Fonti's 'unaligned pair' read, that's fine, since there isn't much to discuss or evaluate there. I felt that my reads were sufficiently substantive to provoke some sort of discussion, especially from the players I had noted as being low on contribution. While I may have gone about that the wrong way, I don't regret my decision to post in thread.

At the time, Bill was one person who I felt could contribute, but hadn't.By the time of my recent vote on Lucky, he had piqued my curiosity more than Bill and I wanted a response from him more. I still want both of them to talk, but I'm still sufficiently uncomfortable with #74 that I'm okay with voting him over Bill.

And really, you were wondering whether we could unvote? How is not being able to unvote even remotely realistic given the timespan involved? I'm sorry, but unless this is absolutely your first game that's not a reasonable query.

Beyond that... hmm, really? Nothing about Zeitgeist? How about Wetnurse, or Sesc, or Aekiel? Lucky or Bill? No? Even your suspicion on Fonti is about Dermon, arguably the most innocuous thing she's said?

Not sure I like how... unconcerned you seem to be with the rest of the thread.

 

This is my second game, actually. As far as the people you've mentioned, there's nothing that hasn't already been said that strikes me about them.

I do wonder why you mentioned Sesc, when as far as I know, he's made one post, that didn't say all that much in the first place, imo. sure, that's a tad suspiscious in and of it's self, but neither Kalas or Rubicon have said much either.

And I even came out and said that the thine with Fonti and Dermon was a very small thing. It's just something I'm going to look out for. I don't actually expect to find anything, but it's better to keep an eye out, than to not and miss it.

I'm not unconcerned about the rest of the thread, I just find that what's there isn't much enough to talk about. There's very little substance to it. The only thing that glared out at me, was your readwall, which is why I'm putting pressure on you.

 

My top three scumreads for the moment are: Wetnurse, Luckylee, and Sesc.


As for my reasoning:


Wetnurse's naked vote stands out above anything else. It might have been the first proper vote of the Day, but I would like to hear his reasoning behind it, especially when he only has three other posts, none of which express any sort of suspicion about Aekiel.


With Luckylee, this post stands out in comparison to everything else of his:

He attacks Wetnurse for inquiring about game mechanics, but then follows with inquiries to Fontisian about third parties, and of course, this:

When viewed alongside the first quoted post, it makes his only attack look quite hypocritical.


Sesc has one post, in which he does three things. He attacks Aekiel's interpretation of the Garcia Rule, which while it might be just a personal disagreement, is qualified for him by wanting to “fuck someone's plan up,” which strikes me as an odd mindset for town.
He then proceeds to inform us that we can determine absolutely nothing from pregame, but given that he currently knows nothing, proceeds to put a naked vote onto Typhon.


As such, I would like to know Wetnurse and Sesc's reasoning behind their yet to be explained votes.
Additionally: Probellum, why would a readwall at any point in the game not give useful information to town?

 

Fonti is meh so far, I disliked post#61 because discouraging people from posting is bad and stuffs. Aek is slightly below meh, not doing his usual mechanics talk but has replaced that with nothing. Typhon has said stuff like this twice

which is kinda scummy because it means his focus is on himself rather than others also i don't like people talking about their own flaws early because it can be used to set up an excuse when they do scummy stuff later.

Calls on past experience to invalidate any possible mechanics tricks that people might come up with, basically stifles potential discussion.

Shitty leading as fuck question.

Flippity floppity also there's more than one way to play the game. Calling people out for posting content and having a different playstyle is bad and shows a bad mindset. Looking to jump on anything they could use to seem scumhunting.

This has been covered already but discounting anything that happened before is bad also needs to show his work on Typhon

Show some working.

My view of the gamestate was that it hadn't started yet.

---------- Post automerged at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------

Oh yeah

Vote Aekiel

Say some stuffs.

 

Sesc:You've got to give me more than that.

Zeit: Stop fencesitting and poke someone.

Caesar's reaction was a major part of that read. I thought that was obvious.

No Stojil, admitting it doesn't make it any better. It makes you self-aware.

So, are you scum?

I don't think I will consider you lack of contribution a product of pre-game. People not posting much or posting fluff? That's a product of pre-game. What you did was try to fake content without actually applying pressure.

I agree with the statement, but don't like the concilatory tone. Why are trying to avoid a fight with Aekiel?

1.With Luckylee's reputation, do you think he needs to create a setup for future mistakes?
2.Why is your strongest scum read (I assume it's your strongest because it's where you're voting) on someone that you're "a bit wary of"?

Not really, no. I liked Typhon's responce and I don't feel a need to pressure Aek at the moment.

Why are you asking Rubicon and Bill Door about their views of the gamestate in the past? How does that contribute to anything?

Post 81: In which Mori attempts to make a shitty justification for his previous shitty post, asks poor question to over half the player base and has a strongest scum read from being "a bit wary" over derpiness.

Lynch Vote Moridin

---------- Post automerged at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

What do you think of Mori's post 60?

 

It's as bad as any stupidly early readwall would be. On it's own it looks baddish because it was vague and there was no real pressure behind it but it's prompted plenty of discussion and kickstarted the day, so good. Also giving reads is rarely a bad thing.

 

Right. Now that I have returned from frantic Christmas shopping I can begin to actually play. As of now, I'm looking a little askance at Typhon (already mentioned), Zeit (very non-committal), Moridin (already discussed and read wall seems... over eager) and Wetnurse (mostly due to #53). Anyway:

Zeit: What do you think of Aekiel?

Wetnurse: What's your opinion of font?

Typhon: Tell me what you think of Stojil's post #78.

Moridin: Analyse one of the above answers. Your choice.

Oh, and in the interests of eliciting a firm opinion from him:

Lynch Vote: Zeitgeist

 

I'm headed to class, buy I just got through taking a reasonably in depth look at the whole thread, so actually responding shouldn't take too long when I get back. I was planning to post the anyways. See you in a 2ish hours.

 

What exactly did you think was wrong with Wetnurse's post #53?

 

Mostly what others have said about it- that it seemed vaguely rolefishy. The question about why font thought that there were good odds the Assassin was scum seemed like willful misinterpretation to me as well.

 

I was sleeping today & missed most of pre-game because of work so that's why I haven't posted yet.

Reading through the thread I see a number of bad posts but here are a few that stood out to me as worst:

First, the statement about wanting to "fuck someone's plan up" is out of place: What does this even mean, and why do you suggest it in this context? The last time the Garcia rule came up for either of us was when KaiDASH (a townie) accidentally gave an answer to your scum partner (Lexicat) enabling her to evade some of the pressure I was putting on her. So since this doesn't come from experience, I'd love to hear why your thought processes is focused on fucking up people's plans.

Then you say "there is exactly nothing in this thread so far to determine anything of anything". I can interpret this two ways. One, you're saying there that nothing alignment-indicative has been posted so far, which is not only wrong but sounds like an excellent way to avoid having to, you know, post any content. Two, you're letting us all know that no one has role slipped yet. Which implies your analysis of the thread was focused on role slips instead of scum slips. Because you already know the scum but need to find certain power roles?

You wrap up this post with a vote on Typhon with no explanation. What about Typhon's posts so far has made you think he's scum? If the answer is "RVS" then please run through his posts and let me know what you think, because RVS is over.

Vote: Sesc

To answer your question to me, everyone in this game is scum. It's about as bad as last game. That said, I'm a little worried that you're asking me for the towniest things that have happened instead of the scummiest things that have happened, because at best that is pretty much the epitome of a "trying to look busy" question. At worst it's some kind of read-fishing. Why did Kalas get asked for the 5 scummiest while I got the towniest?

Said no townie ever, because they don't feel the need to pre-emptively defend their own posts. Why did you include this line?

--

Aekiel: Your question to Zeitgeist ("What do you make of Moridin's suggestion?") is pinging weirdly for me. Why Zeitgeist, why Moridin? It reminds me a bit of the way you randomly asked someone what they thought of me in Tiny Hunt.

Zeitgeist: Please vote for someone and apply pressure to them. I don't care who, take your pick.

 

Then why exactly was my post 61 bad?

Sesc: You're pissing me off. Reasoning, please.

 

Because you weren't criticizing the content of the post you were criticizing that the post was made in the first place.

 

@Dermon: It's more the timing of the readwall and the vagueness of it's content that I have an issue with. I never said it wasn't useful, though it's ore useful in the sense that it's made its poster seem scummy to me.

If Moridin does turn out to be scum and we learn of that, it could also give us clues of who else to look at.

Anyway, I have a headache, I may not be on for awhile. (Note, I keep a tab for DLP open at all times, so even if it says I'm on, I may not be)

 

Sesc: You may have said that you'd made an exception, but that's not the same as providing reasoning. I still se no rationale behind your vote, and you seem content to not provide one.

Therefore:
Vote: Sesc

 

@Mordin-I liked Caesars posts, it felt somewhat aggressive and called you guys on building supposed town cred. I like how you attack me for feeling someones post is towny who thinks you're scummish though, it says a lot. I'll throw my vote on Sesc because I want him to answer my question

Lynch Vote Sesc

 

Accurate as of post 92 (and worst request ever Stojil)

Ranking of the non-rhetorical, non-post filling relevant questions from what I liked to what I didn't.

Poke.

Poke.

Pokepoke.

Called out.

Reasonable.

Reasonable.

What the shitwall should have been.

Lewl.

Reasonable newby question. Very oddly directed.

Pokeless poke.

Dumb and you should know better.

Asking for analysis of a third of the player base less then a hundred posts in does not add to the gamestate imo.

No matter the combination of town/scum you ask these questions to the responses will be the same this early on. Just horrible busy-body posts.

See above.

Am I making the discussions right guys???

This gave me the distinct impression of wanting an echo of your already voiced opinions. Completely twinged me the wrong way.

Not a great line but 'said no townie ever' is just.. urgh.

Ahoy Captain, lifesaver has been thrown.

Reading: fail. Comprehension: fail. If only we could think of why Stojil would ask you to justify your town reads..

How there can be this level of understanding on the game set up followed by a soup question actually makes my brain hurt.

---------- Post automerged at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 PM ----------

Off to a Christmas party. I'll get some more thoughts on board in a bit.

 

Alright, I'm home.

First things first, Caesar's question. Stojil's 78 was the first thing that I saw from that made me feel like he was actually playing, which was nice. Point by point:

I know before I even post this that somebody will jump up and down and point out that this is a fence sitting answer, and in truth it is. But frankly, I can see this going either way. To paraphrase from my QT, font and Stojil are the only two people I'm having trouble getting a feel for, but there you have it. My gut says that it wasn't scripted, but Stojil makes a good point when he says the timing is wrong. If that

is enough to sell it to font, she might be in trouble. I need a little more out of Stojil before I can come to a decision on him. Font is very active, and I actually like a good deal of her other stuff, so I'd be tentative to condemn her over one questionable incident like this. Scrutiny all around on this one.

If pressed, I'd probably side font, because I've liked the last bit of pressure applied to Moridin.

I was actually going to stay clear of Sesc altogether, because I can't be fucked to attempt to defend myself from an accusation without any sort reasoning backing it. I agree that it is a useless post, though; I had hoped for more, after 24 plus hours of lurking. And.. yep, I think that's it.

Agreed. But while I'm on the subject, I have no idea what I should react to, Zeit, so be impetuous! I'd almost welcome a vote from you if it would encourage a little activity! And while I understand the idea, I suppose, just looking at who everyone else tells you to simply makes you someone's extra vote. Scumhunt a little!

Luckylee is kinda pissing me off; there's no way he could've possibly thought that it was impossible to change your vote. I mean, seriously. If he doesn't get his head into this one, I'm quite alright with lynching him. At best, he needs to pay more attention. At worst, he's scum attempting to use our disregard for him (in the aftermath of wondering if he can swap votes, etc.) as a weapon.

I have a great deal about Moridin's readwall in my notes, and it boils down to this: I have no issue with him posting a pregame readwall; we needed some impetus to quit rehashing super majorities and sending zombies to Stojil. The issue was it wasn't a very good readwall. For negative things Moridin says, to paraphrase:

-font had a series of posts (the unaligned pairs posts mentioned above) that rubbed him wrong
-Aekiel has been asking questions instead of contributing
-Lucky hasn't said much
-Wetnurse is clumsily rolefishing
-Dermon is quiet
-Bill is cryptic, quiet
-My first post was straddling the fence, and my followup was better if not as decisive as he'd like
-Probellum is quiet
-Stojil is quiet
-Zeit is bringing up an exhausted topic
-Kalas is quiet
-Rubicon is quiet, has only asked a single question

And then he fake votes BillDoor. He appears to have more specific issues with Aekiel, Rubicon, font, Wetnurse, and arguably myself, and chooses BillDoor. It seemed illogical, and somewhat forced, frankly. Not only that, but pieces of it are simply regurgitated from other sources.

Even so, I still had him at null, because it felt like a town player attempting to force a little discussion to me rather than scum trying to force a town-sounding post. Since then though, his quick swap to Lucky (as his number one scum suspect) for just the reasons listed in my paragraph on Lucky coupled with the defensive tone of his last few posts make him my new number 2 scum suspect.

I don't think Stojil was harsh enough here. Essentially, Probellum is voting him for attempting to start the real game too soon, or at least that's how it reads to me. Whatever issues I have with Moridin's play, that is not one of them. Essentially, this says that you shouldn't put much stock or post your opinions of people's play in the pregame because everybody is screwing around, and then votes Moridin for a post he made in said pregame. His continued tunneling on this (rather hypocritical) point, in conjunction with a soft defense of Lucky's "can we rescind votes?" ridiculousness and his apparent lack of other leads makes him my number 3 scum suspect.

Stojil ends by asking a handful of questions (some better than others).

Overall, it was a decent post from a guy that prior to this one was sorely lacking where they were concerned. I don't agree with all of the opinions he listed, but I like it overall. A few more like this and I'd be willing to call him a tentative town lean.

I'm going to go ahead and put this out there so you guys don't think I've completely abandoned you, but I do have an Aekiel post and a vote coming, so expect that in just a moment.

---------- Post automerged at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------

Vote: Aekiel

And here's why: I have this theory that I know precisely why you asked Lucky and Zeit those questions. Your complete disinterest in Lucky's response during your latest series of posts makes me believe that you were simply throwing things at two of the weaker players from the last couple games, and preparing to jump on whichever happened to slip up first.

So far, you've followed it to a T. Coupling that with your continued lack of content and the issues I've pointed out before, my vote goes to you until we get some real content and explanation that fits better than simply preying on the stragglers for town cred.

So yeah, there's that. For completeness, I've actually liked Dermon, Caesar, and, to a lesser degree, Bill in this game. They're probably the closest thing I have to town reads, while obviously (with no thought given to how a team would be built) Aekiel, Moridin, and Probellum are my biggest scum reads. Admittedly, it's unlikely that scum would bus so heavily with the first 24 hours (Moridin and Probellum's interaction), but I haven't liked either one's posting of late so I'm leaving it.

Wetnurse, we're going to need more than a mechanics derp and a naked vote from you :\

Rubicon and Kalas have finally posted a bit, I see, but I need to see a great deal more from you to have any concrete reads, especially Kalas. There's still no real content to judge him by (although I will peruse his question selections in more detail soon). Rubicon I very tentatively like. At least he's attempting to apply a little pressure.

 

I feel I'm misconstruing myself, regarding Moridin's readwall. From the beginning, I never said pregame was useless, just that what was there was too insubstantial to warrant something like a read wall. There are exceptions, (As I've stated already) Moridin's readwall being one of them, at least to me. Maybe it would be warranted if there were more "Exceptional," posts in the pregame, ones that stood out, to make a more concrete and less tentative wall. But this was no one of those cases and as such, I found it suspicious.

As it is, I'm not sure how much more I can explain my suspicion of Moridin and his Wall, without simply beating a dead topic. So, moving on:

Sesc is definitely suspicious. I'm not sure why he wouldn't explain his vote. Even simply saying it was an RVS vote is better than nothing and he has to know that.

I'd also like to see Aekiel's reaction to all the pressure on him, so I can form a better opinion on him.