Do you have any actual opinions on players?

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Exactly this logic cost us in the last Tinyhunt.

 

Which is precisely the reason I left it in.

 

How?

No (great question, by the way).

1) Why are you trying to make "asking for town-reads" sound as something useless/scummy?
2) Why are you confusing townie things with town-reads?
3) Why are you asking me why I'm asking what I'm asking before actually answering it, when my answer would influence your answer/defeat the purpose of what I was asking in the first place?

I do feel the need to do that and townies did say stuff to that effect in the past, namely me in multiple games (last game for example). And I do that to look like town (yeah, I said 'look', which I know sounds scummy and oops, I did it again )

It's not as obvious as you seem to think. Could you explain it in more detail? Also why is that point the only one you felt like you had to clarify (even though you actually didn't)?

Caesar: what do you think of Bill Door's scummiest five in #84?

 

And I'm here. Going through the thread and answering as I go.

Will do, and Zeitgeist seemed as good a person as any to pick. I was heading off to work when I asked the question anyway, iirc, so I didn't particularly need to ask someone who was on at that exact minute.

---------- Post automerged at 03:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 AM ----------

Looking at this, I've honestly got nothing to follow up with. This is a decent enough answer, if a bit lacking in detail.

Luckylee: Has your read of Caesar changed at all since your post #55?

Wetnurse: Top three scum reads. No lurking.

 

Alright. Here we go:

Disagree with this. Mechanics discussion is unhelpful in any well designed set up and especially in this one. "Mechanics tricks" are not a thing. Aek's post is notable only for explaining the change in his playstyle.

This is a somewhat leading question, yes. That's not necessarily a scum tell in itself and personally I'd reserve judgement until I saw what Aek did with the answer.

Has something of a point about flip flopping, etc. Wouldn't agree that this is one of the five scummiest things in thread though- I'd rate Typhon and Zeit's careful avoidance of commitment as more suspicious.

Agree with this. Votes without reasoning are bad and exploitable.

See above.

In summary, I'd disagree with what he picked as the top five scummiest things in thread but not to the extent where I think he himself is scum.

@Typhon: Thank you.

 

I work. I also do things other than Mafia in my spare time. I also asked questions, pressured and got discussion going.

Unlike you.

Or more accurately, telling people the basic facts of the game. There are only two confirmed town roles and they're pretty basic ones. Any mechanics tricks would thus be relying on uncertain alignment roles, which makes them fundamentally unreliable.

So, no mechanics tricks.

It was leading, because Moridin's post was terrible. I'll be getting to that soon though.

Good catch, I agree.

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Well, yes. I did throw out questions to players based on nothing more than gut feeling and (in Zeit's case) random chance. That's essentially my early game strategy in a nutshell.

As for jumping on the first to slip up. Would you prefer I didn't jump on people who slipped up? Because it seems to me that your argument is accusing me of scumhunting when you'd prefer me not to.

Vote: Typhon

What kind of content are you looking for?

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Zeitgeist because why not. Moridin because I wanted other peoples' opinions on his suggestion. It's actually been quite informative for the first bit of serious pressure in the game.

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Okay, we've got two worlds. Town!Moridin and scum!Moridin.

In a town!Moridin world, who looks scummy after all this debate?

In a scum!Moridin world, who are his scumbuddies?

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Kai: Can we get Votals + a Countdown clock?

 

@Sesc, yeah my bad thought it was clear, but you answered anyways.

@Aek, nah Caesar still looks fine to me, but he's made like maybe two post so thats moot.

@Typh, I realized my mistake and posted immed afterwards, so I don't really see your point. Also you getting hella defensive looks bad when you have like 1 vote

Other notes, Aek looks ehish to me atm but so does Moridin. His vote on me seems purely like an attempt to do something other than his readwall which everyone else has already gotten into so I won't bother. I'll wait till after these two post some more and probably throw my vote on one of them. I also don't really like Typh, but thats more of a gut feel than anything.

---------- Post automerged at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------

Also
unvote

 

Sesc: Thank you for expanding on your Typhon vote.
Unvote

After reading it, I agree with most of it.
However, why do you think his paraphrasing and simplification of Moridin's readwall is filler, if it points out how little can be drawn from it?

Kalas: What conclusions do you think that we should be drawing from the wall of questions which you posted, because most of your analysis looks noncommittal and vague.

 

Fair enough. The issue I was commenting on is that read walls, especially ones made that early on,turn out to be a lot of words with very little content.

You really need me to explain it? The fact that Caesar apoligized for not including those posts instead of attempting to backtrack, analyze them, or give a reason for not including them in the first place makes it more likely that he honestly forgot to include them.

 

Nah. I think I'll wait, unless the day is ending soon. I already said I'm probably gonna vote Aek or Mori, but I wanna see a couple of more of theie post first.

 

You misunderstand. That was more in response to Probellum saying there wasn't anything to go by in the pregame. My reads that said people hadn't said much so far were supposed to be written off as pregame, not my posts (i.e. your second line).

I wasn't, that's just how I talk generally. :S

1. I think displaying a clear and public 'lack' of knowledge about a fundamental aspect of the ruleset could allow for a more radical 'mistake' down the line than simply hammering, yes.
2. Again, just how I talk. I'm not staying up nights sweating at the thought of Lucky being scum, but that's more because it's, you know, not a real life or death situation

Their views of the gamestates in the past directly contributed to their posts in the past. I wanted to see what they were thinking at that point. Rubicon asked Caesar who they would vote for. What was he hoping to accomplish? Did he have someone in mind he would vote for, and he was gauging Caesar's wavelength? That's what I was thinking.

Also, we've had plenty of this type of argument on many D1s. The 'RVS' and people just fucking around - but even that fucking around is done with knowledge of alignment and goals, so it's useful. I probably fucked up the readwall irreparably, but I strongly disagree that posting something along those lines is pointless at that stage, both in general and in this game in particular.

Uh, that's not why I attacked you (and in fact, that's not even when I attacked you, and I put Caesar down as town). But sure, whatever you say. Thanks for ignoring the actual question again.

I like that Dermon picked up on a blank vote from nowhere and called Wetnurse out on it. A lot of more experienced people would dismiss that as RVS and the fact that Dermon didn't pushes the idea that this is his own analysis. Ditto Sesc's vote. His analysis of Lucky's post, comparing content to attack, also seems good.

Dermon marked as town for now.

We have more than 24 hours remaining, and nobody's close to a lynch, so that's alright.

Lucky, if you don't want to vote, at least help scumhunt. Who do you think are 2-3 scummy players aside from myself and Aekiel? Fit them into a scumteam with either or both of us if you like, but give those reads.

Aekiel, why did you switch off Zeitgeist when he has yet to reply to, well, anyone? ANSWER ME NOW IASIUHFWIOOUSBCD

Fontisian, assuming I'm not scum, who would your next top two targets be and why?

 

Ah. My bad.

I remember you being a lot more decisive in Mini Mafia 3. I'll read through in the morning if I'm remembering that correctly.

That isn't really an answer, because you ignored the part where I said "with Lucky's reputation." You think Luckylee might have been setting something up? I'll counter that he doesn't need to. Anyone who's read through the last game should know how badly he can screw up.

Why didn't you ask those questions?

Why would anyone think that was RVS?

Stojil and Typhon. Sesc already outlined the case against Typhon, and I'm waiting for his reaction. As for Stojil, something just feels off. It partly the initial post where he assumed he would be alive going into January, when he tends to get shot a lot by scum as a townie, partly the self-awareness, and partly the way he's going after me for weird reasons when I town-read him for going after me with good reasons in tinyhunt.

What are your scumreads Mori?

 

How the hell do you people make tl;drs this early in the game?

Aekiel was just RVS. On that note

Unvote

I'll try to read through the tl;drs later.

 

Wait, what? I thought you were just naked voting.

Anyway, please answer the outstanding questions.

 

If I missed your question it wasn't intentional Mori. My D1 always suck, and I might just be taking things too personally, you and Typh haven't played with me before so I guess I shouldn't be surprised you think I'm scum D8 As to your question, I just noticed Wetnurse voted Aek and has since vanished. Explain please Wetnurse,

Lynch Vote Wetnurse.

 

Also, anyone mind explaining how people came to the conclusion that I was rolefishing?

 

Ok Wetnurse ninjaed me

Unvote

I'm unsure atm, I reread the thread and realized I look pretty fucking bad and my thoughts on you two being scum may just be mentally thinking NoU @Mori/Typh. I'm gonna reread the thread again and throw a vote on someone now.

 

That's fair; I've lurked in games we've played together in the past, and I've been far from the most active player in this game as well. That said, at least I had made a little effort. At the time of that posting, I was working on tl;dr post in addition to a decent response to a question and my first post, which admittedly could've been better. You, on the other hand, had basically put up a bare vote on me and made a very self-satisfied sounding followup that elaborated on nothing. I confess, I was frustrated. Also, in fairness to myself, I often post multiple times while I'm at my computer, and they get auto merged. So while you wouldn't (and shouldn't) count posts to say a big post is coming, auto merges like my response to Wetnurse should probably be added to my tally. Enough of that, though, that's a completely secondary point.

Come on, now. I was addressing Moridin's wall post, and paraphrasing his words pretty directly. Moridin is clearly our mysterious "he".

It was not a great post. I admit it. It could've been better. I don't like posting without saying something of consequence, but there was little to say at that point and I needed to check in, so I forced it. I feel like there is a disconnect with what I try to say and what is perceived at times, but that is my problem and not yours. In any case, all I meant to say was that people should vote as they see fit, but refrain from going past 8 votes before the end of the day to avoid the hammer. I'm not positive what question you're referring to, honestly, but I think that pretty well encompasses the post.

As for the "us", well, I'm sorry my word choices offend your gentle sensibilities, I suppose. :facepalm

Umm, what would you have liked for me to have done? I wasn't going to plead with you to tell me what I had done wrong. That first post could've been better, and I think the thread has a consensus on that. But if you don't make a case (and you hadn't before this), then I have nothing to respond to.

Then we get to your selective quotes:

fonti is a fence sit. I acknowledged that originally. I don't like that unaligned pair post series from her, I do like most of the rest of her posts. That makes her an essentially null read.

Stojil (also covered in the paragraph you quoted from) is a town read if he continues to post in the vein of #78

Zeitgeist was asking for my response to, presumably, your naked vote on me. I had no reaction for him, because I had no idea what I was supposed to refute. The rest of that paragraph was calling for more out of him, and attempting to encourage at least some discussion by him. I didn't even mention a read.

Luckylee's paragraph was a warning shot. I feel like he's pushing boundaries of what he can get away with and write off as derpiness, and I do not approve. That is the result. It was a reminder to me and everyone else to pay attention there.

Moridin's segment ended with me calling him my number two scum read. Good lord, did you even read it?

See, this is what I mean by my points not being clearly communicated. If you think that I wrote all of that simply to express indecisiveness over and over, I need to craft my tl;dr's with more care.

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but isn't that always the situation before a lynch has taken place? After you have connections to look at as well, but at this point it's purely deductions about singular players.

That's altogether valid. The difference was, Aekiel had the third highest number of posts. He looked like he was being active/productive, but he wasn't actually saying anything. Compared to the overall group, you're right, he was no worse than the majority of us, but his post count was higher than most as well. That was why I commented on it.

He pursued an answer about something he was curious on, he applied pressure, and he had at least slight rationale for his scumreads, which he posted clearly. It isn't exactly a complete affirmation of his towniness, but coupled with his lack of missteps (at least that have jumped out at me) I don't mind saying that he was a mild town read.

So yeah, that's me not ignoring you. Thank you for explaining your case, at least.

 

Alright. I've reread my interaction with Aek and realized both of his questions feel off/pointless. Discussing Lynch mechanics felt pointless, my mess up was on a much smaller game where accidentally hammering was way easier. I may have gotten a bit aggressive, but talking about pressure/lynch votes seems like a shit attempt to build town cred, Aek seems to do this every game and it always looks bad. I'm hoping he is actually scum this time >.>

Lynch Vote Aekiel