I haven't been holding him at arm's reach, I was trying to punch him.

Perhaps because it was a justifiable reason.

I thought I had a good chance of getting him lynched, especially after he racked up four votes Day 1, before the Aekiel lynch was settled upon. Additionally, how was my case a defense of Bill Door?

I'm comparing what we both did in the outlined cases: we presented information that was considered "fact" in order to outline thought processes and conclusions for the rest of the town.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm town, and I did that.

I don't know what to think about Luckylee right now. He fits well with Rubicon for the reasons outlined, but after his lengthy defense of Zeit late Day 3, it's hard for me to see the two of them being aligned together.

 

Sigh. Dermon why did you ignore the last part of Choclate's question?

 

More-so Day 3; Day 1 and 2 you treated him and talked about him as a noncommittal scumread.

I certainly looked justified, and seemed justified, but was it? Sesc having the audacity to vote?

This was your Day 3 vote:

You specifically throw in "pushing for a Bill Door or Zeitgeist lynch" as evidence. If we assume Bill Door is a Witch, this looks bad in retrospect.

...but what happened nad your responses were nothing alike! Surely you see this?

Your position is that Luckylee is not aligned with Rubicon because of Luckylee's Day 3 defense of Zeit? Is that correct?

---------- Post automerged at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

Passing thought: It is not terribly unlikely that Uncle Stojil was Gravedigger, and targeted by a scum Apprentice. This isn't terribly actionable though, just a potential piece of the puzzle.

This is the sort of thing I wouldn't be able to say (admit I'm not Apprentice) if we suspected scum Assassin.

 

I'm quite flattered that you think that. It was quite difficult pretending to be indecisive during Day 1 and using that fluttery language as a shroud, when in fact I wanted to defenestrate Bill Door and Dermon. That veil of an easy lynch was what preserved me, though, and gave me a good shot to reach the endgame so that my secondary ability activated. What I didn't anticipate was that Stojil and Sesc would be townfirmed so rapidly, followed by the Kalaspocalypse and both my Cards activating.

I had to reveal the rouse as soon as possible, or else risk going to the grave with my information and confusion among the ranks due to my shrouded play in D1.

Haha, everybody still thinks my reveal was awful, but I stand by my choices, as bad as they may seem. In my eyes, my reveal means that whether I live or die, the town wins. The Witches cannot afford to keep me around for long because my ability might activate, but if I die, they'll essentially be townfirming me. Moreover, the reveal has generated significant discussion and pushed us towards a certain impetus.

I wish we had a way of investigating Typhovira, though. Although my gut says Fonty, blab-Probellum, and Dermon are Witches, I have this niggling feeling that whispers in my ear that Typhovira could be a Witch. It's unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past Vira to be a brilliant Witch (take it as a compliment, Mel. <3)

Also, I have this awful feeling that the Survivalist is a Witch role. The Gambler and Recluse don't seem particularly useful to Witches, and I wouldn't put it past Kai to give Witches' useful roles such as the Loose Cannon, Survivalist, Inquisitor, etc.

 

Current Vote Total:

Dermon (4): Chocolate Pi (#692), Vira (#695), Luckylee (#700), Zeitgeist (#707)

Abstaining: Dermon, Fontisian, Moridin, Prophylaxis, blab

It requires 5 to lynch, 6 to auto-hammer.

As always, updated information can be found in the status document.

Day four has 25 hours and 38 minute remaining.

=-=-=-=-=-=

Fontisian voted Zeitgeist (#662)
Fontisian unvoted Zeitgeist (#669)
Chocolate Pi voted Dermon (#692)
Vira voted Dermon (#695)
Luckylee voted Dermon (#700)
Zeitgeist voted Dermon (#707)

 

Why is only four people voting for Dermon? Come on people, this is making you look bad.

@Zeit: No witch here. I haven't rolled scum in what feels like forever.

 

Tons of time left, and two votes away from autohammer. I see no reason to vote right now. I wouldn't put it past Lucky to find some way to double vote just so he can hammer (I kid, I kid ).

---------- Post automerged at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

Granted, nothing's actually happening, but there's time enough (nearly a full day) and there's still time. I'll post something in a few hours, but in the meantime there's still plenty to be said, especially by Dermon, LuckyLee and, well, you.

For the three I mentioned, what is your potential scumteam (include all four)? Make a case, please.

---------- Post automerged at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

Should say 'still things to discuss' <_<

 

What three? You mean Rubicon / Bill Door / Dermon? The fourth would be Font, because I can't see her acting this way if she were town. She's been buddying with Bill Door and Dermon, trying to time stall last day, not to mention she was on the Kalas bandwagon and trying to get Zeit lynched.

That'd be my four.

If Font was somehow not scum, then I don't know who else it would be. I'd have to reread the thread.

 

Badly phrased, sorry.

The three people I mentioned (Dermon, Lucky, Vira), please give your scumteams, is what I meant to say.

 

Atm? My scum team was,

BD, Rubi, Dermon, and Fonti.

Chocolate/Moridin/Zeit are all pretty much town firmed.

blab and Proph are suspiciously quiet.

Vira looks towny atm, wanting to lynch Dermon, but she isn't doing much else which is weird.

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What about you Moridin? Why didn't you ask Fonti, blab, or Proph those questions? Whats your scum team atm?

 

Wait, Lucky, why are Chocolate and Moridin town-confirmed?

 

I said pretty much, not definite. Depending on NK's my scum team changes a lot. But the archangel card thing that Chocolate mentioned pretty much town firms them?

 

That's not how it works, roles are pure random.

Plenty of time, I want to hear more from Prophylaxis, who we've given plenty to read.

I think the words I used were, "compelling, not absolute." Aekiel could have changed his mind, or if we are really crazy, Stojil could have lied.

If we learn Survivalist and Recluse were other players, Stojil couldn't have been lying, but there's not need to force those claims.

 

Which is why I said pretty much town firms, not an absolute.

 

I've been thinking about what claims we can afford, and came up with one.

If I am somehow completely wrong about Sesc, and you are Apprentice to his Gravedigger, feel free to step forward.

 

Done. I may have been slightly overestimating Zeit, but my initial impression of him as player with a history of good reads and compelling arguments holds. His history as a mod and interactions in Hunt of Thrones show that he is perfectly capable of understanding complex mechanics, and his qt from Tinyhunt (where he was the vigilante) shows how much thought he put into using his role.

My problems with Zeit are as follows:
1. The reveal did not have the usual level of thought he puts into games.
2. He still won’t explain why he thought Probellum and Rubicon might be acolyte and priest.

We are living in one of two worlds.
1. Bill Door was scum. Dermon is likely his scumbuddy, with one of Luckylee, Proph and blab taking the last slot.
2. Bill Door was town. Zeit and Vira are likely scum, with CPi or Luckylee taking the last slot. Scum!Proph is still a possibility.

In both worlds, Mori is likely town. I really like CPi’s posts, even if I don’t agree with some of his conclusions (Point conceded on the Rubicon protecting Dermon thing, by the way.).

Now, the issue is that if Bill Door was town, we’re currently at 6-3 and one mislynch from lylo. If he was scum, we’re two mislynchs from mylo. So, we can afford to lose a Day if Bill Door was scum, but we really can’t if he was town.

I would still like to lynch Zeit toDay, but the Dermon lynch isn’t a bad idea and clearly has more support.

Miscellaneous stuff:

Oh, and Zeit, the next time you’re thinking about challenging me with a Doctor Who quote, do the smart thing: Let somebody else try first.

 

This is valuable analysis.

I had not considered Zeit+Vira, but granted I have not spent much time focusing on Zeit scum worlds. Can you share thoughts on this pairing?

This is my thought too. Additionally, Witch Survivalist, BOD, or DOB could tip the scales. (Town Judge or DOB can tip them back, if slightly.)

The issue is that with Zeit's info threat, we currently have Witch team forked. We face three worlds:

1) Zeit is scum.
2) Zeit isn't scum, and Bill Door + [toDay's lynch target] both are.
3) Zeit isn't scum, but at least 1 of Bill Door + [toDay's lynch target] aren't either.

Tomorrow, one of those worlds will be proven false no matter what. There is nothing the Witch team can do to prevent this, even if Zeit is scum.

---------- Post automerged at 20:21 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

If Bill Door was Town, either:
1) Gravedigger is a Witch, for sure
2) Stojil was the Gravedigger, and the Apprentice is a Witch, for sure

 

1) Zeit is scum.
3) Zeit isn't scum, but at least 1 of Bill Door + [toDay's lynch target] aren't either.

These worlds aren't mutually exclusive either. I took Zeit's claim because it made sense as to why he was playing so strangely/felt real. But if Zeit's scum, he could easily be lying/not telling us whether their is one scum left or not. Which is why I felt so nervous regarding the Assassain/claiming stuff tbh. Were still in a pretty dangerous situation considering the priest is dead.

On another note, Vira you've been pushing Dermon's lynch, but not much else. What is your take on all of this?

 

Vira should be fully aware of Zeit's meta, as she was in Death Eaters II, Tinyhunt, Gotham and A Hunt of Thrones with him. With that perspective, the way she immediately dismissed my attack on Zeit was really suspicious:

The weird thing with that is in Gotham, Zeit was scum and got really angry at the beginning of the game. In addition, in Tinyhunt, scum!LittleKnee faked anger, and was town read by Zeit for her effort, but Vira kept LittleKnee as her strongest scum read despite the faked anger. Vira's defense of Zeit matches neither her personal beliefs from other games, nor her history with him.

Alright. I'm willing to risk that scum don't have optimal roles.

This is a bit OOG, but why don't the dead get to know who the witches are at the beginning of the game? The rules state that:

Since the witches receives infor regarding each other's identity at the beginning of the game, shouldn't the dead be informed of their identities at the end of the pre-game phase?

Lucky: Are you missing a scenario 2 there?

 

Nope. Copy paste failure.