~~Votals~~

[4] Luckylee - Aekiel (#74) Sloth (#80) Citrus(#90) Zennith (#91)
[6] Sloth - Zenzao (#82) Dermon (#83) Kalas(#92) Zeitgeist(#94), RuckyRee(#96), BillDoor(#98 ),
[1] Zeelthor - Zircon (#32)

[2] Not Voting - Zeelthor, Lyrium

With 13 alive, it is 7 to hard lynch, and 4 to soft lynch.

Deadline is in 9 Hours 46 Minutes

 

How the fuck was that doubtcasting? I was saying I liked that post and want to make more like that.

 

Yes he is. Though he hasn't been defensive; he's been fairly aggressive all round. Not sure where you got that idea from, given what I've seen in his posts.

 

I think it's a lot more I didn't post much through the middle of the day, but this also seems a bit loaded to me. What do you mean by "stealth-bomber" and "supposed newcomer?"

That's a pretty flimsy retort. Firstly, this is Day 1, so there's only so many posts from which we can get reads on anyone, especially with how slow the thread has been going. And secondly, it's not a Survivor game unless you're scum. If you're town the overarching goal is to do what it takes to eliminate the scum, even if that involves your own death in the process. And you just played the newb card again - why are you doing that?

I don't know this site's meta, but with the mafia-play I'm used to you're above and beyond the point where you are supposed to claim, and the more you delay this the more sure I am you're scum. I'd say you're lucky you're at L-1 so noone else will vote you, except you're at L-1.

So you're jumping on the bandwagon of discrediting me as well? It's pretty easy to throw out words like "leaps of logic" and "words in my mouth." Care to point out one of these "leaps of logic?" I specifically asked you whether it's reasonable to read what you said from a scum perspective the way that I did, and not only did you avoid the question, but you discredited me instead. I don't see what's towny about discrediting/deflecting at all. You've ignored other players that recently voted you (Zennith) and only addressed my vote, and it seems to me like it's because the only thing you can come up with is further pushing the "lack of impulse control/ability to logic" other players have thrown out about me.

Pretty sure you're talking to/about me, so would you like to elaborate on that please? Throwing a few buzzwords around doesn't mean you can coast later via pushing that I'm bad at analyzing and thus my opinion provides null. There's a reason why you're one of my 3 guesses at the scumteam, and you're only solidifying your position on that list.

 

Actually I was refering to BD's post. As to putting words in my mouth,

This is beyond fucking annoying and makes me think you're scum. You put words in my mouth to justify your shit reasoning, which is basically I don't like the tone of his post and I want to jump on a bandwagon. You basically copied what pretty much everyone else said to boot :/

As for Day 1 mechanics talk, I hate it. It always feels like an attempt to gain town cred, and it's exactly what you did. It's hard to discredit someone that has no credit, yo.

 

Right, to begin with, I'd like to go on record saying: "I'm not scum" just so later it's not said I never claimed innocence.
I'm almost certainly lynched at this point, so before that happens, let's see what I can give you for later Days...

Ok, first of all, you guys know I was given basic coaching by Fonts. That has been no secret to anyone that's read the sign-up thread. I went into this with a strategy because that's what was recommended.
Second, if I was being coached by scum or wizard mates, what kind of idiots would they have to be to not explain the concept of interchangeable voting to the new guy? Worse, what kind of idiots would they be if they approved or gave me a strategy that revolves around all votes being final?
What I do find interesting is that you replied to my post in just a little over 10 minutes, after a silence of 5 hours following Zeitgeist's. You were always going to vote against me because otherwise you were in the lead to be lynched, and now we were tied.
We would need a tirebreaker, maybe even someone that would change a previous vote in other to back you up, and oh look what happened less about an hour later,

Bill was pretty impressed by your amazing argument of "you all piss me off and make leaps of logic I won't explain", switching his vote from you back to me.
Maybe it's a coincidence. I'm serious, it could be. Or it could be an alliance.

However flimsy you may think it is, it holds strong against the argument. So far, no one has been able to dispute it beyond "townies wouldn't plan", and unless you're proposing to have a monopoly on how every townie acts, that doesn't fly.

...........................no. Just. ... (pinches bridge of nose) ugh, no. This is the first argument I can honestly say is dumb, not poorly thought-out. A survivor game means trying to outlive another group. As an entity. It doesn't have to be a single person.
We as the town are trying to survive the Reds by killing them before they kill us.
The reds are trying to survive us by getting us to kill each other.
It's survival.
As for the newb thing, I'll try not to mention it again, but frankly everyone else seems to make a comment on it based on my first post.


But those are my thoughts, watch for Lee and Bill, possibly working in alliance, as if now, they're my strongest reads.
Citrus... ...is not really reading scum to me. Yet.

 

And what do you suggest we do? Day 1 we're almost definitely going to lynch, so I legitimately don't understand why you would say people are jockeying for towncred d1 and you don't want to join in. My problem's not with that, it's with the attitude of I'll just let bandwagons form and then jump in as with Sloth (which you called me out for yourself).

I don't like it when players discredit because it's a scumtell to me - you reduce the value of someone's opinion in advance, and then later on you can capitalize on it as a weak way to remove that player's argument if it doesn't line up with what you want.

My issues with you right now are your seeming lack of interest for Day 1 (like Zennith) [you've shown more interest since] and the ease with which you discredit. I placed my vote on you because you were on my current list for scum and the alternatives from that list were not good places for a vote: 0 votes on Zennith, an already formed lynch train on Sloth. Could I be wrong? Abso-fucking-lutely, we haven't even finished Day 1. But optimal play is to do the best to lynch scum D1 AND/OR elicit as many honest reactions as possible, and your play doesn't reflect either of these attitudes.

If you're town I'm perfectly happy being proven wrong, but so far you don't have me convinced.

 

Re-read the post where I voted for him (#51). That should make it clear.

Zircon is a non-entity, as usual. His one piece of activity has been to ask a mechanics related question to Zeelthor, which is a nulltell of monotonous proportions.

Zeelthor is even worse. His one post is literally nothing. If he doesn't do anything better by tomorrow, I suggest we lynch him.

Kalas had a reasonable excuse for not being available for most of the day. I've had a busy weekend myself so I can perfectly accept him not being able to access the thread.

On the other hand, the attacks on Kalas have given rise to some doubts about Zenzao. There are bits of wording that strike me as odd, such as in post #75 where he uses "We'll" instead of "Will".

#75 is a fairly odd post all round, actually. Zenzao's attack on Kalas is strange, given that he's essentially basing a case around Kalas potentially having an RC role that would let him wait until late in the day to post. It reads pretty heavily as though he's already picked out his target and is searching for justification for it.

In light of this, his attacks on Sloth read fairly similar as well. While Sloth's posts haven't exactly been the best I've ever seen, I agree with Zeit that he reads fairly heavily of newb!town. Even the desperate reasoning to not be lynched reads that way to me, though there's enough hard evidence there that I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he is scum.

Other posts that read scummy to me (by Zenzao) are #63, #75, #78 (this one gives a hint that Zenzao has been rolehunting), #82, #93, #97 (why the fixation on vanilla town when Sloth has all but claimed a Council role?).

So, if we consider a scum!Zenzao world, I'd probably put the scum team as Zenzao/Lyrium/Luckylee.

Lyrium: The softball questions in #87 read to me as though she doesn't want to stand out from the crowd, but still wants to be seen doing something. So she lobs her scum mates a couple of easy questions and calls out some lurkers for lurking.

Luckylee is a bit of a hazy option, but he fits fairly well with his attempts at deflection and dismissal of everyone who attacks him as stupid/useless. Very NO U.

Vote: Luckylee.

A Luckylee lynch gives us a decent amount of information, based mostly on who has attacked him and who hasn't, and has the benefit of not being against a probable newb!town.

I'm fairly confident in these reads, but I still have some lingering doubt about Zeit. I've got two potential worlds in mind; one where Zenzao is scum and one where Zeit is scum. I've detailed the first, the latter has a Zeit/Sloth/? scum team (there's a reason I've gone with Zenzao as scum for my primary read here).

 

I'm "jumping in" with Sloth? For my own reasons, rehashing what others said is a waste of typing. And yeah, overall this has been a pretty bad day. I really didn't consider Fonti's coaching. But at the same time, why would Fonti have advise him to post this badly? Eh, if he flips town it'll suck, but I'm sure other people will jump onto lynching me

At the same time, Idc how I look. I know I'm town, and tbh I don't need to convince you. Thats not me discredeting you, it's me dismissing you. I'm town, so your accusations are meaningless to me.

Aek, what do you make of all these shenanigans? Your question started all of this. Give us your opinion.

---------- Post automerged at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

Fake Edit, Ninjaed.

Lynch me because it'll give the most information, Day 1. Because pretty much everyone attacked me, it doesn't say much, even when I flip town. Also, your post leaves a lot of room to backpedal, kudos.

 

As an entity, yes, but not as individuals and that's my point. Win conditions-wise, everyone wants their team to win. Yes, the goal is to survive the other group. However, there's a subtle difference in play based off alignment due to town playing from a majority and scum playing from a minority with known players. Scum players tend to be more involved in their own individual survival relative to town players, all else held equal. Is it a blatant thing? No, but the subtle difference is one more tell.

 

Eh, Day One. I'm not prepared to say that I'm 100% certain, because I'm not. I just give this scum team a higher chance of being accurate than the others I can think of at this stage.

 

Please give your opinion on this entire other then a lynch vote on me.

 

Part of my read on you is because of relational tells from Zenzao (#89, where he gives a very short, dismissive answer to my question about you, and #96 where you take his reasoning for voting Sloth as your own), and the other part is from posts #71/73 where you refused to give any scum reads, your blatant dismissal of anything that goes against you (#96/100) followed by immediately going NO U and claiming they're scummy for even thinking it.

You're not scumhunting, you're not giving reads, you're just reacting to other peoples' pressure and then claiming any defence you make is useless because you're obviously town. That is not a good defence. Combined with the link I can see between you and Zenzao, I take it as a sign of collusion and scum mates trying to mislynch the weakest link in the town team.

 

Did you actually just post your primary scum read, post reasoning for your secondary based partly on your primary then follow that up with a vote on your secondary?

 

Believe me, nobody wishes that I were scum more than me. I haven't been a member of the mafia since the disastrous Gotham Hunt game. Hate to break it to you, mate, but I'm super-duper townie again, like last time. Boring, I know. :/

Aek, I will say that your argument did bring up a point which I liked, which is the possibility of Sloth being a council role. If it's that obvious, could you please explain why BD and the others have joined the Sloth Train?

I really would like to disembark from the Sloth bandwagon, especially since lynching a newbie in his first game strikes me as a little cruel. However, I cannot do that in good conscience until Sloth demonstrably proves to me why Lucky is a better lynch than him. Because right now, I don't see enough proof to justify switching my vote.

---------- Post automerged at 04:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 AM ----------

Edited thread title with modpowers (TM). Helps us keep track of the Days and Night.

 

6 hours left, I didn't think I'd be able to convince enough people to jump to a completely new wagon. Sorry, should have mentioned that in my initial accusation.

Because his posts are still pretty crappy. I've just read them as new player crappy rather than scum crappy. I mean, he doesn't know our meta, doesn't know the unwritten rules or what is a scumtell and what isn't. I can easily see him flailing around like this as town since I've seen it a bunch of times with other new players.

 

Except Fonti is coaching him, which is a 2 way street for badness/goodness.

Anyways yeah, me not taking scumhunting seriously Day 1 makes me awful. Sorry I didn't give 3 bullshit reads Aek, I'll make sure to do so next time. And you've continued to ignore my question. Also, everything I've been doing is arguably scum hunting. How you guys have been reacting to my post, thats scum hunting. So, yeah.

 

3 days is not enough time to go over every intricacy of a group that has history with one another, especially not when one has a job and limited time. We barely went over some general advice and basic rules. Not very thoroughly, as you've noticed.

I...don't believe you.
In my first post I stated I was new (I know, Citrus, I'll stop bringing it up when it stops being relevant).
It was announced in the sign-up thread Fonts, your old mentor so that's added incentive to remember, would be helping me out. You replied immediately and the three of us had a short back-and-forth.
This was, again, 6 days ago, in a game that started 3 days ago.
How can you possibly have forgotten?
It's much more likely to me that you saw a target and your best chance of not being lynched and jumped on it.

My point was that the game is a survivor game, albeit a group survivor game.
By that logic, my strategy argument is valid and your point about scum-thinking invalid.

...Really? You do know that even if I convince you, people will start assuming we're both scummates, right?

Let's start with this,

I notice no one replied to this part of my post, and I can't figure out why, since whatever you think of me, that seems like an important factor. It would certainly make me at least hesitate on labeling someone scum.
Someone did mention is that it looked like Zensao had chosen his target and was simply looking for justification. They weren't talking about me, directly, but I do think the same is happening here.

As for Lee himself,
-Take a look at my responses to him above. So far they've been the most damning against him in my mind.
-He continuously dismisses and demeans everyone with his posts, something that has been brought up before and will likely be brought up again, lording with a superior attitude that almost screams douchebag vampire. I know we don't RP, but that still doesn't seem like something a Town would do.
-Adding to that, and more relevant: he's extremely evasive and slippery in his answers, adding nothing of substance 90% of the time. Look at his last post: "Also, everything I've been doing is arguably scum hunting. How you guys have been reacting to my post, thats scum hunting. So, yeah." To me, it reads like "trollin' trollin' trollin' don't look this way." And there hasn't really been any posts from him lately that haven't gotten that vibe.

---------- Post automerged at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

Hope this automerges because otherwise I have no clue how to do it.

@Zeitgeist
Only change your vote if I convince you, getting a bone thrown my way as a newbie would kill a lot of the fun.

 

There are 3.5 hours left on the clock.

I wanted to put in my vote for Sloth based on his posts and reactions.

I'm slightly worried at what Zeit and Aekiel have brought up which is that he could be a council member. Does anyone else feel that way or have any thoughts on that suggestion?

If he is a council member this could be disastrous.

 

If you think that he is scum then you shouldn't vote any differently. If you think he could be a council member then you obviously don't think he's scum and shouldn't be voting for him in the first place.