Well there's no reason for him not to claim if vanilla, in general claiming vanilla isn't great because it narrows down the power roles for scum to hit, but if you are going to die anyway that doesn't matter. I think there's 0 way he was a town power role and his play just doesn't make sense for a vanilla town in my mind. And most importantly I had a strong scum read on him.

This is Zeelthor's first game, or it was supposed to be anyway.

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---------- Post automerged at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

And you didn't answer this.

 

If he was vanilla or a powerole, he should have claimed. Period. To imply otherwise is bad. We have no information, and his last "regretful" message was useless. "I wished I could've made it farther" doesn't help, his Day 1 speculations don't help. They're useless to be frank. Your logic doesn't make sense, Citrus.

Lynch Vote Citrus.

Why do you think he didn't claim? He saw Zenzao do it, and he had apparently "accepted" that he was going to be lynched. I simply can't comprehend why you think not claiming and giving no information is a pro town mindset.

 

Great, thanks.

What's throwing me off is the fact that he didn't claim. I specifically asked him to claim in a post around 8-9 hours before day end, and he had plenty of chances to do so (and as you suggest, he saw Zenzao claim). I think we can all agree he explicitly chose not to claim.

It's obvious he was not a Town PR, or else he would have claimed so.

Not claiming implies very strongly that he's vanilla if town. And it's hard for me to understand why someone would not claim during day 1 as scum, especially when a counter-train existed. I guess I could explain it as a towntell to me. Like I said, he's vanilla or scum, and it would be much more optimal for scum to claim in that position.

He's new enough that I don't know how much weight his D1 speculations hold anyways unless they were channeling Font through them. I've explained why I could buy him being a vanilla and not claiming thus. So you're saying you straight up see no possible reason why he would do so, including via the logic I used? I will say I can see no other reason why town would not claim in this position except for along those lines.

Answering your other question Bill involves looking at the Rucky train. First off, that means we're in a very good position considering there would only be 2 scum left.

[4] Luckylee - Aekiel (#108 ) Sloth (#80) Citrus(#90) Zennith (#91)

If Sloth is scum, there's almost definitely at least one other scum on this train, especially with how much easier it makes it for us if there's only 2 scum going into N1, since it's worth them at least trying to protect Sloth. Going off my D1 reads, I could easily see Zennith as being the second scum. The third scum would likely be either a stronger player bussing Sloth or Zircon/Zeelthor, but I don't think there's enough posting yet to distinguish very well between these two groups. I would be a little extra suspicious of Zeitgeist since he's the only one that really pushed to protect Sloth, including early on when Bill placed a vote on him. This also fits with the idea that a stronger scummate bussed him, since so far Zeitgeist appears to be a stronger player.

So in a Sloth scum & Rucky town world: Sloth/Zennith (or Aekiel)/Zeitgeist

Agree/disagree?

 

Other than yourself, Aek is pinging on my radar. He asked a pretty bad question to "fuel" discussion and then just vanished. His refusal to answer my question is also annoying me beyond measure.

 

Yeah, my working theory at the moment is a Sloth/Zennith team. I don't really see Zeit fitting in that team because at the time of his vote Lucky and Sloth were still really close in votes, I think scum zeit would have voted to save his teammate when he had the chance.

Lynch Vote Zennith

What is your opinion on Aekiel, Zeitgeist and Zircon?

 

Real life intervened. I've caught a bug of some kind that's laying me up pretty well, but not enough to let me take a day off work. So I've been busy working and sleeping for the past god knows many hours.

I'm off to work again in 2 1/2 hours so I'm not going to be the most active of players today. I expect to be over this illness in a couple of days so I'll probably be more active in the next game day. Just don't expect in depth analysis of anything.

Also, you're doing the NO U thing again.

 

I don't really know how to play and I've sorta lost my ambition to do so. We're looking for a replacement at the moment.

 

K, I hate when this happens, as it makes any read on that player really difficult to understand. But whatever.

I want to look at Ruckyree for a moment here. It seems like a bunch of people are dismissing now the possibility that Rucky and Sloth were aligned, which I agree seems to be a sensible thought process. That being said, I still think it's more likely that Sloth was a power town than anything else. It seems to me that the thought process for not claiming at that point was simply that, by the time he claimed it'd have been too late - who would have believed him? The lynch bandwagon was already rolling heavily, and giving out any more information, however true it might or might not have been, could have been more detrimental to town. For example: say he was a power role and claimed it, how many people really would have believed him and would have changed their votes? Claiming after you've been bandwagoned seems to very rarely have a positive impact, from my previous game experience. As such, better to leave scum without any knowledge of who was lynched than to imply to them that someone important was killed.

Yes, I know that with Bill pointing at me as a Sloth scum teammate it seems bizarre to defend him, but you guys asked for my read so here it is.

And so to Rucky - his play has been incredibly reactive and incredibly "NO U" over and over again. At a certain point, a continuation of that tone becomes more than an annoyance, it becomes dangerous

Again, I disagree with this. As I pointed out above, keeping scum in the dark with who is or isn't alive on the town side of things seems a net positive for us.

As Aek has noted, the vast majority of Rucky's posts have been relatively petty (He has a much higher post count than mine, but frankly the content has been repetitive and unhelpful).

 

Zennith, answer the question in #165 please.

 

Well, the Zeit is tough, I really don't have a strong read on him. I feel like most of what I've read by him is him laying out options and discussing post counts without truly giving away any direct information. That's not enough at all for me to call him scum, but it's just something I noticed.

My hunch on Aekiel has gotten stronger in his absence after trying to stir up debate, but apparently RL issues came up, so I don't know how legitimate this suspicion is. But of the three, I think he's the one I'm still most likely to vote for as scum.

Zircon's been quieter than me. I have no tells on him other than that he needs to post more. He's hardcore lurking.

 

You and Zennith. Although you voted for Sloth, you were the last person, and you're flexible enough to recognise that bussing is within a scum's prerogative. And by that point, Sloth was already dead anyway. Furthermore, you strove to gain towncred while interacting with Sloth in a way which I find a little... manufactured? I don't know; the discussion between you two was distracting and felt almost like a smokescreen from actual, substantive discussion. :/ Zennith is my other pick because he's not only evasive but also fixated on Luckylee, who is probably unaligned with Sloth.

Of course, if Sloth is town, then that probably makes Zennith's position more tenable. In a game with vanillas, I'm inclined to believe that lurkers are stealth!scum, which might explain my dissatisfaction with Kalas and Zeelthor. Granted, Kalas has other commitments, but lurkers are no asset to the town.

---------- Post automerged at 06:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 AM ----------

Also, I'll reiterate that we should lynch a lurker (i.e. Zeelthor), Kalas, or just rip off the bandaid and defenestrate Luckylee, before he festers around like DE!Shay did magnificently in the first Death Eaters game. Now, I don't particularly think Luckylee is the most scummish person here, but I can see that we're going to be fixating on him quite a lot. For now, I'm going to place a pressure vote on Zeelthor the Lurker (to get him to post, dammit), but if I don't perceive any traction, I'll switch over to the Luckylee Train.

Vote Lynch: Zeelthor

 

Don't know how an opinion on me could be formed BD as this is my second post.

Uh one of you new guys mentioned seeing a "viewing" player at the bottom. Don't use that, don't rely on it, because some people always leave their home pcs with stuff open (like me) so they can give a false positive.

I think scum would know well enough (or their buddies) to townclaim. I also can think of a minor thing about vanilla town never stated in the rules that will be a bit of a tell when someone claims. Vanilla newbie wouldn't necessarily even know to claim overtly before death.

I may be missing something. I'll admit being a little sleep deprived this past week so if there's any major gaps in what I've said let me know. I'll try to get reads up before Day End but no promises.

Not sure who to Lunch yet.

 

I want to lynch you for that post. It's almost as useless and bad as the ones I made in Witchhunt 3, and I was trying to seem lynchable there. Put some pressure on somebody. Who do you think is suspicious? Why shouldn't we lynch this person?

Say anything more... meaningful, for the love of Miltank's teets. :/

 

MOD ANNOUNCEMENT:

Titus is now Replacing in for Zeelthor, give her a little bit of time to get up to speed.


That said there is 1 day 22 hours and 33 minutes left in Day 2

End announcement

 

This game is slowing down a bit ridiculously. People who aren't posting, please start posting. That is all.

 

Zenzao NK was a little weird. Merlin or (suspected) PR is the only explanation I'm seeing. Unless fonti was absent for the entire time Sloth was a potential lynch fonti should have at least mentioned the various scenarios of claiming.

With that in mind there is zero chance Sloth was a PR. Anyone that still thinks so just... delete that scenario. Denying scum information is not a valid strategy. They already know everything they need to know to win. On the flip side, giving scum a potential free PR claim? Yeah no.

fonti may have said something along the lines of 'claim if you think it'll help' but even that seems iffy. 'give town as little information as possible' seems to have been the thought, though even that play is suboptimal.

---------- Post automerged at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

That came out a little more soc then I intended. Sorry about that.

@Zennith: By your reads is Aekiel > LL?

 

Ok, I am here, no flavor knowledge. Starting to power through now.

---------- Post automerged at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

Aekiel, let's ease on in with a little gut shall we.

[vote]Aekiel[/vote]

Btw, for whoever asked, I've played in roughly 15-20 fast games (similar deadlines), 20-30 slow games, and 1 open no role reveal game similar to this.

---------- Post automerged at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Vote: Aekiel

Grr

 

No, I still think Luckylee is the best vote today. Aek is the most suspicious to me of the three Bill specification mentioned in his question.

 

Been super busy helping my sister move today so… /me shrugs

Ok. That you think NO INFORMATION is a new positive because SCUM may not gain that information, makes literally no sense, Zennith.

Zee is trying to be replaced so I don't see why you wanted to lynch him, Zeit. It doesn't make much sense.

Aek is still gone, and Ollie is being Ollie. Not much else for me to say :/

Citrus, what do you make of all of this?

 

I'm not suggesting that I necessarily agree with that strategy, more I'm trying to explain a possible mindset sloth may have had. Here's my question for you: if he was scum, why wouldn't he fakeclaim to try to save himself?