Because I don't care whether people tunnel on me.

 

In the OP, it says that the win condition for town is "Win Condition: Eliminate all threats."

Am I over-analyzing things or does that mean that there are more than two fractions at play here?

 

Alright, I'm going to pull an Aekiel and start talking about mechanics.

Due to my mad combining skillz and stuff I have figured out that this game is about gold and abilities that cost gold.

One obvious consequence is that town!firms are more important, because we can send them gold.

I figure we figure out a way to optimize our use of gold/the giving other people gold abilities (so that if we have for example two townfirms and somebody dies, that person can send gold to the person that can use it better/at all.)

Now, this is hard to do without giving scum some advantage but I figure we should be able to do something to optimize our use of gold without giving scum too much useful info, though I haven't figured out anything that I really like yet.

(I was contemplating advocating systems where everyone claims how much gold he has "left over" or the opposite (claiming how much gold everyone needs to use abilities with no "left-over" but both have obvious downsides depending on setup/number of vanilla's))

@all: What are your thoughts about the gold mechanic?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Side commetary:
The reactions to Rubicons first post were weird... Am I the only one who thought that his second sentence was joking?
fontisian voting Rubicon first is ok (also meta), Sloth jumping on top worse, newb!scum Iridiumstern would probably avoid voting 3rd, (he has claimed he's informed himself somewhere) Zeit is his usual brand of weird but focuses on the claim of town-power-role, which is bad.

fontisian: What do you know about Titus role that I don't?
I agree that Titus is more likely to be town if she actually has a full double vote. But on the other hand, giving that this game is about gold, I find it just as likely that her double vote is "bought" and limited time.
And seriously, she is more town for splitting her votes in the beginning of the game? Walk me through that.

@Zennith: show some initiative. You're defensive from the getgo. What's the scummiest thing that has happened yet?
Vote: Zennith

@Possum+Maiden: Tell us about yourselves. What's your experience? Why is blab awesome? Ask me and (at least) one other person a question.

@LuckyLee: Tell me an answer to your question that would have made your more suspicous.

---------- Post automerged at 04:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------

I just read the additional info in the OP and obviously if every vanilla has 3 gold "left over" one of the ideas is even worse.

 

/me shrugs

"I was trying to bait scum by acting scummish and seeing if they'd pile on me" that was what I assumed his answer would be. As for a scummier answer? His answer was scummy enough. Blatant trolling and having town waste time on you is scummish. If you're town you shouldn't want people wasting time on you. For now, Lynch Vote Rubicon

Nermut say something that isn't mechanics related/speculation.

 

@LuckyLee
huh, not at all what I thought.
So, why would scum!Rubicon want town to focus on him?

 

Unvote

Not really seeing Rubicon as excessively scummy anymore. I'm waiting for fonti to post her argument on zeitgeist/sloth.

Also, what does unaligned pairs mean?

 

Unaligned pairs are basically a pairs of players that are not scum together. All possibilities regarding their alignment are possible, except both of them knowing they are on the same team.

---------- Post automerged at 05:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 AM ----------

@Iridiumstern: don't be passive. Who do you think is the most scummy right now?

 

Really, the most pressing to me is the game mechanics at the moment. The lack of overall knowledge on roles is what is really stalling this game, more so than Rubicon's puzzling opening move. I mean, we do not know which roles are town and which are not and it seems obvious that the town roles need gold to function, so, we kinda need to be sure whom we are giving gold and for what purpose.

Which is going to be really difficult if there is such a thing such as souping. Obvious stuff, really, but nonetheless.

Makes one wonder if one should mostly disregard the roles overall and just play it like a vanilla game since it seems hard to take anyones word for anything.

Especially if there are three parties instead of two.

What do you guys think about this?

 

@blab

Nemrut: So far, he's contributed nothing of value. 2 posts are mechanics talk, one of which pushes a plan that would lead to town power roles not being able to use their abilities. No scum hunting or pressuring to be seen.

I also really dislike fonti's "these people are scum, I'll tell you why in the morning."

Vote: Nemrut
Nemrut, how about you tell us who looks the scummiest out of Rubicon, Sloth, Me, and Fonti

 

Guess we have different takes on value then.

Of you four, right now you, since you seem to push for ignorance on this whole mechanics thing, which are kind of a big deal since we know next to nothing about them except that they need gold and Titus can vote twice.

Rubicon had, as already mentioned, a very odd opening post, but that didn't struck me as scum as much as a town person who wanted to evaluate reactions. Bad move, sure, but not scum one. Not certain, of course, but that's the impression I got.

Sloth, I had already read immensely wrong last game, so, going to take time to judge his posts.

Fonti, I will wait until her post on Zeitgeist and Zennith. We still have a lot of time and we can wait that long.

---------- Post automerged at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

What I mean with that is this:

We need to pay gold to the town roles for them to use their abilities. However, we do not know what their abilities do and we do not know what kind of abilities scum have.

Can they hijack the gold we transfer? I don't know.

Can they soup if someone here roleclaims in order to convince us to give them gold? I don't know.

Can we even trust the roleclaims? Not really. We wouldn't be sure whether they are town or not and whether or not their role does what they say it does.

Scum is probably going to try to con us into giving gold to them, and since we have no idea about any role, it will be hard to call them out on it. Hence my question whether or not we are better off with trying to play this as a vanilla game.

Could the town roles be useful? Probably, but I do not know what they do, and not sure if it will be worth giving the gold to the scum instead, which can happen, and for all we know, their roles are worse, if they even need to use money.

If scum needs money, keeping an eye on who gives whom money for what reason could a be a good way of noticing that since only scum would know with certainty whom they could give money, unless there are town roles which are aware of each other which seems unlikely in this setup though, since we couldn't exactly trust that.

This is what I mean with the biggest problem right now being the mechanics. I am really unsure how to progress, so, would love to hear thoughts on this.

Or am I way of base here?

---------- Post automerged at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

Okay, apparently had something confused, the gold transfer is a night action.

Question at Proph: Do we get notice on who send whom money, or that money was send at all? Does at least the recipient get to know who send them money?

 

@Nemrut:
I have asked that question, and Proph told me that Payback is also anonymous => the receiver doesn't get to know who sent him gold.
(he will just update the gold)

 

Vote Count 1.2
(9 to lynch)

Rubicon (3): Sloth, Zeitgeist, Luckylee
Zennith (2): Titus, blab
Irdiumstern (1): Citrus
Sloth (1): fontisian
Zeitgeist (1): Rubicon
Citrus (1): Titus
Nemrut (1): Irdiumstern

Abstain (7): Zennith, ika, Custer, Riley Poole, Maiden, Nemrut, Possum

 

@Nemrut:
I don't know why the mechanics would stop you from playing the game. Anything to maximize gains from gold would be great but we're not in that bad of a situation. The only way to loose gold that doesn't involve townies making it to endgame (yay) is giving it to scum. So yeah, town!firms are important.
So, which player is scamming for gold, in your op?

@all:
I just realized I won't make deadline. Because 5:00 AM midweek.

---------- Post automerged at 08:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 AM ----------

also, @fontisian: your 1000# post, I was disappointed.

 

Sloth

Opportunistic scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon.

There are two fake calls for information, here. The first is the first line. Really, he needs more data? The game had started about 15 minutes prior to that time. Was he expecting us all to roleclaim in our first posts?

The second fake thing is the line about me. Instead of asking a question, he just asked me to talk, which doesn't actually encourage me to do anything. It looks helpful instead of being helpful.

Refuses to answer my question, demands I answer it first, and claims that his reasoning is "obvious" even though his refusal to explain it most likely means that he can't.

Useless second to my question. Blah.

I don't believe you. Do you know why? It's because you assigned equal possibilities to scumhunting and rolehunting, even though Rubicon did not claim a specific role to provoke reactions from that role, and because you even though you acknowledged the most likely reason (scum hunting) you didn't give it an unlikeliness rating. There's also the way your bit about Rubicon possibly being a powerrole is written from the perspective of someone worried about vanillas tricking the scum into shooting them.

I explained the possible reasons behind Rubicon's vote, because when I asked you to explain your mentality for voting him, you refused and said you would not until I explained my own. Now you are trying to turn something you caused into something I did to frame you. Sorry man, but the time to answer my question without having any in thread reasons to go off of was when I asked you it, not a couple hours later.

And the thing is, your reasons aren't similar at all. I looked at my possibilities, concluded that Rubicon was probably reaction baiting, and decided to do some reaction baiting of my own. You jumped on a wagon for nebulous reasons, and now that you've outlined them, I don't think you really believe them.

Blatantly false, as Zeit has done many other scummy things. I'll go into detail on that in a bit.

We're in a 16 player game, so there are probably four scum and possibly a third party. I believe Sloth knows that (and has definitely looked at the playerlist), so this bit reads like he's trying to get towncred through a lack of knowledge about the scumteam.

Question to Titus is whatever.

Openly coaching a teammate, right here.

tl:dr Sloth is scum. Help me lynched him.

 

Hm.
@Zeit

You’re easily frustrated this game, when you were calm and laid back most of Dresden, even until the end – and then you only reacted to CounterClaim.
However, are you missing something? This little blow out seems forced when basically half the people in the game have stated doubts about Titus. The only one taking her Town status for granted is Fonti (big point against her, trust me), everyone else is either neutral, or believing her to be scum. Are you purposefully ignoring that to work yourself up into a Town-like huff?
So try again, why are you getting so worked up, Zeit? You usually keep a cool head as Town.

--

@Rubicon

…All interesting questions. None of the answers will do anything to further Town movement, as they’ll simply be vaguish and will do nothing but spend more time better used scumhunting.
I don’t know if you’re scum, but there is no doubt you ARE sowing confusion and paranoia, keeping the attention focused on the wrong parts, and generally offering very little. That makes you the scummiest out there, and that’s where my vote stays.

Oh what the hell is this now. :facepalm

--

@Blab

My thoughts are that this is IoA. We all knew this already, and this entire post is just a big wall of useless information.
Let me ask you right now, What do you think of Rubicon now after the new posts?
Between Zeit and Rubi, who comes off as scummier and why?

In turn, I’ll answer one for you,

We went over the bit about the audacious play left and right, I assume you saw that.
Maybe he’s counting on gaining something in being killed: We don’t know anything about the roles, so for all we know, his is an ability that gains something at Death, or that his scummates do. So that’s a factor.

--

@Fonti
Guess I’m waiting on your argument now.

--

PROPH, can we get confirmation on this?

 

@Fonti/Citrus - Please give me a specific question. I have two freely usable double votes which expire, probably well before lylo. The specific condition only helps the scum team. If you have a specific question, such as my flavor, ask.

@Zeit, Rubicon and Sloth are not sowing Chaos. You are ignoring obv!scum Zennith. You are also stirring paranoia based on me playing my role with proper knowledge. You are also chaining votes. If you really thought I was SK, why amI third on your lynch list? Why are you accusing obvtown Rubicon of being scum when his wagon and the obvscum wagon got tied?

@Rubicon, please look at Zennith and see what you think. You now have my vote on Zeit btw.

Alpha Vote: Zeitgeist

@Ird, people have to sleep. I would prefer Fonti to clarify his thoughts in the morning. One clear post is better than a messy one with 10 million followups.

@Blab, following your strategy outs the PRs.

---------- Post automerged at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 AM ----------

Cirus asked his question basically saying fullclaim now, which is useful to the scums. The others asked uestions about who I could vote which is helpful for achieving lynch.

---------- Post automerged at 08:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

Ika, I need to see you in here....I cannot tunnel what isn't here.

---------- Post automerged at 08:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 AM ----------

Fonti, four scum and third party sounds like too much knowledge. Foundation for the belief?

 

@Titus: I'm fine with people posting their stuff whenever, and font delivered, but I dislike the announcing it before delivering the actual substance. Unless there's some time sensitive reason that you need to announce that you will post later, I'd rather just see the real deal and not the unsupported speculation.

@Sloth: I asked the same question earlier. Payday income is anonymous, as is last will income

 

Ok, let’s take this line by line, overlooking the irrelevant.

I was expecting more interaction between players to see what they ring as so I can form my standard wall posts.
When has Data meant anything else? When has it meant roleclaiming? When is it not standard Town mindset to encourage interaction in order to scumhunt?
I’m going to assume this one is your stretch point – you know, the one you usually tack on at the end when you want to give a little push to your solid arguments, but which, on its own, sounds ridiculous.

…Let’s quote that first post of yours:

What sort of question could I have formed from there? Why Rubicon? I knew why Town would vote for him there, because I stated on my second post: “granted, it's fairly obvious why anyone would, but then you questioned me on it.”
I had no inkling to where to go with you just yet. I asked for more talk so I can get a better feeling on you.

Absurd. You know exactly how smart I am. More to the point you know exactly how smart I think I am. I don’t make empty movements. I overthink everything.
I don’t believe you believe that I wouldn’t, no matter what my role was.

You’re going to have to run that by me again. I thought I made it clear that the scenario where he was scum was the least unlikely one in my eyes right now.
Scumhunting and rolehunting were placed as aside reasons because they’re both interchangeable in my eyes, if they even occurred: If he’s Town, he’s doing it to scumhunt; if he’s Scum, he’s doing it to rolehunt.
In a game where the roles are hidden, it’s entirely possibly he was doing neither, especially if Scum. This is why I put it as an aside.

None of us work on another’s schedule. We post when we have time.
And I’m aware of my questions – as I stated on the post, there was no need for you to answer: When Zeit was placing the attention on me and others were working with that ridiculous idea of me bandwagoning, you were relatively on the clear, save from a few prods.
As Town, you could easily refuse and put pressure on my answers with little to no repercussion.
As Scum, you could circumvent me and cast more doubt on me.
One seems more likely than the other in this situation.

Our reasons are similar, the conclusions are different.
Like I stated – I find him to be the scummiest player. I have not once said that he’s definitely scum.

You seem really obsessed with everyone arriving to your exact same conclusions unless they’re scum. o.o
Still, now you’re just nitpicking. I said the ‘scummiest things,’ I did not say he hasn’t done anything else scummy, and in fact, I’ve gone over it a bit in an earlier post. He’s just not the highest in my list right now.

I’m sorry, why would I know that? I’ve only ever played/seen 3-Scum teams. What’s the logic here? Why do you believe that?

---------- Post automerged at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

...Ugh, for the record that "LIKELY SCALE 8/10" was supposed to read "UNLIKELY SCALE 8/10" if that's what confused Fonti.
If you think I'd be lying, ask yourself why I'd use a Likely Scale on one aspect, and an unlikely one in every other one.
At the time of Rubi's post, there was nowhere near enough data for me to feel likely about anything.

 

@Nemrut: So how have your opinions on Sloth, Zeitgeist, and Zennith changed now that Fonti has posted?

 

You're asking your biggest scumread for input.
Irdium, where do you reads stand on everyone right now? Who's your second biggest read if Nemrut is the first?