So it appears two wagons have formed, one for Riley, one for Zennith…between the two, the scummier choice is obviously Riley.

Honestly, Riley claims he’s out of gold for a second shot, and he hasn’t been contributing a lot, so yes, we can get rid of him and having him flip either way would not lose us much and would get us information we’ve lacked for a while. But we’re focusing on the wrong pair here, imo. Is this going to be an ika thing, wildly speculating in the next target with the lynch pretty much decided early on?

I’d rather snipe the snakes in the grass before bothering with the one in a glass case.

Anyway, @Riley

It was not. You haven’t answered my question, you’ve been rather frivolous with your gold from a town perspective. The thing is, from a scum, it doesn’t make much sense either. So waiting on your answer.

--

@Mathblade

Wait what? When did I say that?
As for Zennith, I wouldn't call him confTown, but it’s far more likely that he is Town than it is for him to be scum. I agree that it’s suspicious he hasn’t been shot yet, but I haven’t ruled out a healer protecting him, which, given that he was protecting Titus yesterday, was only logical(ish, I made my whole spiel about Lee/Zennith > Citrus > Rubicon as targets last Night). We’ll see what happens tonight. For now I’m reading him as Town for reasons explained in other posts, and later on in this one.

Also…alliance with Titus? How so? Because I thanked her for addressing my questions? I thanked Blab, too, and he’s currently voting for me.

As for you, Custer’s actions made most see him as scum, your actions are mostly nullish, and you’re trying to find your footing, so I have no clue what to make of you yet. Some of your statements and assumptions are strange, as well.
I’d just like to take this time to remind everyone that you were primed and ready to vig Custer 48 hours ago, and that changing the player doesn’t change the role or whatever reasons you may have had.

--

@Titus

I have a general distrust of PBPA, they tend to get twisted to reaffirm what you want them to reaffirm. Remember when I used one on you last game?
That said, a lot of this strikes me as circumstantial, and a lot assumption, most of it not particularly damning. Like, why would he bother presenting an alternative for Zeit when he had been outed as Scum?
The bit about #823 is a good one, his answer is weak, and I’m pressuring him on it, along with the Fonti thing. The idea of scum!Riley is getting more likely, true, but like I said above, I’m trying to hunt for the hidden ones.

Is it?
Then I used the wrong term: (Citrus, this is also for you) I was thinking something similar to Avatar, but not exactly. I couldn’t remember the name (mafiawiki is blocked in my work computer for some reason), so I just threw one. I found the link to the sort of role I mean though, yesterday: Assassin.

Soups is the term I use for Assassin Kills. Am I not using it correctly?

Basically, rather than an SK, I think we could have an assassin with limitations on their ability not related to guessing the PR (due to the game setting), but probably more around spending gold.
It makes sense when you realize that most of the roles here aren’t exactly what they usually are: A jailkeeper that everyone was confused about at first, a double-voter with unknown condition to her ability to double-vote, the auditor seems like a bastardized version of a detective, a vig that can shoot as many times as they want per Night, etc etc.
I don’t think we should rely on any roles being exactly as they are, and the certainty on how it works makes me somewhat suspicious.
(Alternatively, like it’s been tossed around, Scum could have inside info on what roles there are, just not who are which. This is unlikely however, due to OP)

Is there a reason why that should be avoided? Given:

If this is true, the only people you’d be outing Citrus to is Town.

Also, talk to me about Citrus – you called him obvTown, and while I get your certainty in Zennith and yourself, and even a Townread on Citrus, can you give me a read why he’s obv?

Wait, what? It does?
That…seems unlikely o.o
The jail setting was stated to keep you in jailchat for 1 Night and 1 Day, and while you’re in jail, you’re protected and roleblocked. Why wouldn’t it roleblock you on Days, especially in a setting where there’s been shown to have at least 3 DAs?

--

@blab

Yes. I believe that scum!Titus and Zennith could have killed Citrus, and without him, no one could deny their claim that Titus was protected (and roleblocked) by Jailchat. Meaning no one would be surprised if Titus isn’t NKd, and no one would accuse her of any NKs or DKs (the last one was under the assumption that she was roleblocked during the Day too. Apparently not?).

That’s what I mean. The three of them confirming Titus is indeed in jailchat makes it unlikely in my eyes that Zennith and Titus are scum. Citrus too, to a lesser degree, meaning he still could be.

2, 5, 6, and to a lesser degree 3, could have all been better spent with the DK, if that was the case. They used it on Fonti pretty flippantly, so easily it could have been him.
4, like you said, applies to literally anyone so it’s not much help.
1 is a good possibility, I admit, so people should consider it: It falls roughly in the same lines as my argument shining light on you and Moridin. However, I would point out that Rubicon had been Townreading me the entire game, so NK’ing him would likely do me more problems than favors at this point. If anything, I’d probably save the DK for him. But, yeah, I know what you’re going to say, speculation. Fine.

This brings me to another thing: You keep tossing the word ‘certainty’ around, as if at any time I had said this is what was happening beyond the shadow of a doubt.
I never did: I used terms like ‘most likely’ and ‘probably’ and I chased those because chasing other venues provided less insight (i.e., a possibility that just applies to anyone). I’m actively trying to narrow down the field and see if it’s worth pursuing. I have never said this is the 100% right path. This is not the first time I’ve pointed this out.
The only reason why you’d keep using that term, then, would be to doubtcast me. Retort?

--

@Irdium

And what are you doing, by the way? Your contributions have gone down severely. Toss me a wall sometime.

Also, I’d like you to reply to my response to you in an earlier post. You accused me. Fine, I replied. Now it’s your turn.

--

@Moridin

Moridin, what’s your best guess on why Rubicon was shot?
I understand that you’re busy, but this, the only post you made, was basically to Garcia (am I using that right?) a question not directed to you.
Who do you think would benefit most from his lynch?

--

Finally, I’ve noticed very little focus on Blab or Moridin, despite what I’ve been saying.
I really doubt I’m the only one that thinks they should be looked at.

And does anyone think the idea of the roleblocker being a Town player is worth pursuin?
As we know, scum has:
-A Watcher
-A DK/assassin
-A Messenger
-A fourth role
IIRC, we don’t know what the fourth role might be, but even those three feel OP. I don’t think a roleblocker could be in their midst. Discuss.

---------- Post automerged at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

Ugh. I can't guarantee I'll be around much today, btw. This freaking white look is seriously giving me a headache.
(Also it really screws with the multi-quote button.)

 

This is the end of #887 from Rubicon. Notice how you're also in the list of people he'd like shot, just below me. Cherrypicking like that is what's making me weary of you.
When you use two statements to support your positions, I can't point out inconsistencies in the relation between them?

That said, I agree with you that Moridin is the next best lynch.
Vote: Moridin
If we're going by lurking, it should be either Moridin or Me. I'm not sure why Riley is drawing so much fire, other than being Riley. Titus still being alive pretty much negates any Zennith lynchwagon, unless one is trying to argue that jailchat is actually scumchat or something.

Reads are coming up next.

---------- Post automerged at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:46 ----------

Maiden:

Apologizing for a readwall? Moruning? Also, I'm pretty sure being sure about people's roles is a sign of scum. Scum/Null

MathBlade: Very impressive turnaround of Custer's reputation there. I can accept that voting Zennith was derp due to being in the process of rereading. Null at the moment

Riley: Still not seeing the scumminess.

Blab: I like #1080. Still scumlean, but less so.

Well, heading off to bed. I should be on in about 8 hours.

 

Retort before I am out: I'm certain (hehe) I used the term "certainty" (certain/certainly) only exactly once until now, namely in the post you're referencing.

The only doubtcasting that is happening here is you accusing me of stuff I didn't do.

Anyway, it was the action of calling the entire thread out to follow your reads that certainly made me so certain that you are more certain in your reasoning than you should/could be.
If that isn't so, well, that's certainly alright.

 

Tomato, tomahto.

Don't be the annoying guy that is incredibly anal about exact wording, this isn't a Case Sensitive Password, you can put two-and-two together to realize what I meant, and, like with you not understanding what I meant by the Citrus-Titus-Zennith trifecta, I'm having a difficult time believing you somehow didn't realize what I meant.
So with that oh-so-confusing problem cleared up, I once again bring up doubt-casting.

...Also stop being cute and reword that last sentence into something I can actually understand. It's too white and bright in here for me to stare at it and figure it out.

--

@Irdium

What specifically about #1080 did you like?

Also, where did I say that Moridin is the best choice o.o
The reason I'm pressuring him is because I have nothing on him. He's getting scummier, true, but aside from my point about lynching either him or blab based on Rubi's last read, I haven't stated anything towards him. I'm trying to change that.

--

And I'm off.

 

Sloth, I have been told it only blocks during nights. I will put a specific request in the jailchat to verify.

Citrus already feels outed, so I claim his role. He is a jailed vanilla townie. He had no gold to start with. He focused on the vt part and asked the question forgetting th technical distinctionbetween jiled versus nonjailed.

Citrus is obvtown for his attempts to setup crack. Specific examples tonight. It is something he does less frequently as scum. Plus Citrus's interactions w known scum and his meta are town consistent.

Ok. You are referring to souping. Zennith Citrus and I should be dead if souping. Plus Zennith's role would be obv o scum D1,regardless of play. No souper is logically here. Citrus and I are lso outed. How can he mod out me as a doublevoter and then have a soup? It also is not mentioned in he setup. Souping isn't here. Plus, scum have fake claims.


Blab, why do you think derp over scum for Riley?

 

Vote: Titus

 

What the hell? You felt you were outed anyway.

---------- Post automerged at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Keeping our townbloc alive is priority number 1.

 

When I propose a gambit we can pull in jailchat, why do you go and out my role in here? Because saying "oh you felt like you were outted anyways" doesn't cut it.

 

@Sloth

Eh, the second quote is the post you're referencing. And the wording is kind of important because I could not remember accusing you of something like that any other time, so I searched my posts for "certain", "certainly", "certainty", "sure", "sureness", etc and it came up empty.

And the first post is still basically about the same thing, anyway. I determined your sureness based on your actions (anyone can put a "I'm not sure, but" in the text), if I'm wrong, then good.
I'll gladly argue about this in more detail when this page stops being so headache-inducing.


@Titus:

I specifically agree with 1), 3) and 4) from Rubicons read. ( 5) and 6) are meh )

Riley's first post was out there.

I liked his answers to me in early game.
For his first, it implied he was watching his scumreads and what he said checked out (those six were engaged in thread)
For the second, see the stuff about ice cream Rubicon. (scum!Riley feels more nervous, imo)

The frustration he exhibited after getting scumread for the gold-discussion felt real.

Most importantly:
I can't see what scum!Riley would think he would gain from a lot of things he did in thread (example: the fontisian's gold discussion)

@Citrus:
so, policy vote?

---------- Post automerged at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

eh, Titus, I would be pissed, too. What exactly is the advantage of outing his role?

 

Mathblade and Sloth alreadyvsolved that. So scum already know. If Sloth is third party it knows. Anyone could dedice. Better it cmes from me so people don't think fake claim.

 

Custer/Moridin are probable scum if Rubicon was on point. Moridin is probably scum, I doubt they shot Rubi because of PR reasons, because if thats the case, they would've been better off shooting me. I'm ok with Mathblade at the moment.

Lynch Vote Moridin

Onto my somewhat convoluted plan that could easily backfire. Sloth you're convinced blab is scummy, right? I agree somewhat, so I'ma shoot blab tonight, and if he flips town, well you need to be lynched and or shot. As for my other shot… Think I'll save it, if I misfire twice it could end really badly tbh. Opinions?

 

Blab I will reply to your town Riley case tonoght.

---------- Post automerged at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

Do NOT shoot Blab

---------- Post automerged at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

Luckylee, Blab is town. Moridin is likely town. Riley and Mathblade are the likely scums. Please for the live of God shoot them or ask questions of me. Make a Blab case so I can show you where you are wrong.

 

:|

And Sloth?

 

Sloth and you are my most likely third parties IMO. I wouldn't mind if you shot Sloth at all for that reason. If Sloth flipped town and neither of the scums died, I could be pretty sure you are third party. Sloth appears townie but I just don't get that same feeling I do with Blab or Citrus that OMG he is town.

Working on a longer reply post to everything I phone posted about this afternoon now that I am home. For starters,...

Going back and giving everything more than a phone post now.

What the heck is the bolded? I missed this on the first read. Since when do you get daychat? If so, with whom?

---------- Post automerged at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Why Citrus is town, Mid-Sized Version

I'm not going to go into the depth of the Riley wall but Citrus is obviously town.

First, he has conflict with the known scum (Zeit, I'd include ika but no one defended him). Second, Mathblade and Riley, my two scumreads attacked him. Mathblade did it soon after entry, and she's been doing a russian roulette of the jailchat trying to see who bites.

Second, his actions. Particularly where he came up with the gold plan, are obvtown. Town can indicate how many people are on or off tangent based on the gold the dead handout. His failed gambit also indicates a town mindset. If his Riley scumread wasn't dependent on his own derp, this gambit probably would have worked.

Third, his meta. His meta is not consistent with the Dresden game, where I caught him. He's much more aggressive and much less reactionary.

Why Blab is town?

Blab's postings come from a town perspective. Take any random sampling of his posts. He's asking questions, stating his deductions and generally pushing forward for his own desired result. He's totally wrong on Riley but he's thinking through is positions and willing to listen to people who disagree with him.

I don't get where any of the Blab scum cases come from at all.


Riley Town Case Reply

Riley's first post sucks terribly. Riley is trying to a) link two confirmed townies to scum and b) solve the whole game on page 2 (I'm using 100 posts per page). There's no way anyone can solve the case on page 2. He basically used that post to doubtcast on Rubicon.

I really don't get how you're seeing Riley as not nervous. Spontaneously claiming Town Auditor under zero pressure is not something someone "not nervous" does. He's generally consistent with a nervous player.

You also mentioned you felt Riley was doing a decent job of interacting with his scumreads. Yet, this only came after #144 when you basically told him that's what he needed to do.

I don't know which post is the Rubicon read to which you are referring so I can't respond to that.

I can see what scum!Riley would gain from the gold discussion. It is a) a rolefish, b) basically trying to shift the attention away from ika without starting a counterwagon (because ika was obvious scum). His gold discussion seemed totally inconsistent with how he actually claimed his role. His whole analysis depends on a missing day action from Fonti, when Fonti's role apparently was a town bulletproof.

Fonti being bulletproof

I just saw something. I do think that Fonti WAS shot night 1. When we saw the day open, Fonti's bulletproof was available for sale. How could Fonti have been daykilled if he had a vest? Answer, he couldn't. Therefore, he had to be shot night 1.

---------- Post automerged at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

Oops forgot.

Baker Vote: Mathblade

 

@Sloth: I already explained why I did it on Fonti at that point. I stand by it. My first strategy is to townfirm those who are (in my opinion) the most dangerous based on previous experience. Fonti was the number one pick at that time. You can either live the explanation or fuck off because it's a stupid question at this point and moot considering Titus won't be persuaded away from me being town. At this point, if/when I get lynched all I want is for you to shift your idiocy towards Titus.

 

Riley, again another slip. You've just implied it would be "idiocy" to lynch me. When you flip scum, you and I both know I am not getting lynched because I have firm alibis for being third party and I can't be group!scum due to insisting on three scum deaths in a row. So you really should rethink the suicide play you are on. Mathblade is going to get lynched right before or after you, so I'd recommend you start distancing... or even interacting.

 

I didn't imply idiocy, I merely expressed an interest for Sloth to know that when I flip town you're the biggest target. You or Citrus.

---------- Post automerged at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

If you try to twist what I said, I did say idiocy, but in the aspect that Sloth's should focus his derpery on you.

 

Citrus wasn't mentioned in your last post.

You said "shift your idiocy to Titus". The context makes it clear this is idiocy regarding lynches.

---------- Post automerged at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

Do you have any comments on Mathblade at all?

 

She's new, saying weird things and trying to fit in.

I have one other thing but I have to check with Proph about something first.

 

Riley, does that give you any indication as to her alignment? Do you feel she's trying to solve the game or appear town? Do you have any questions for/about her? Do you have a reaction to the comment about Mathblade having daychat?