Vote Count 2.7
(6 to lynch)

Moridin (2): Irdiumstern, Luckylee
Zennith (2): Maiden, MathBlade
Sloth (1): blab
Titus (1): Citrus
Riley Poole (1): Titus
MathBlade (1): Titus

Abstain (4) Zennith, Riley Poole, Moridin, Sloth

 

So this 'plan'. 12 players alive. 2 or 3 scum left, I personally believe 2 but I don't think it'll be more than that. Given the sheer number of players who are not potential scum (Titus, Maiden, Citrus, Zennith, yourself in your eyes) I hardly see how shooting 2 scummier players will 'end really badly'. Could you clarify? I mean, if nothing else we gain significant information given how much has been bandied about regarding reads.

This just cements my belief that you're scum. You're right, it makes no sense whatsoever for mafia to shoot Rubicon over you for PR reasons.

On to that.

Five reasons to shoot Rubicon.

1) Random.
2) He was right.
3) He was wrong.
4) PR reasons.
5) Redirection of some sort.

I feel like I'm forgetting one here, but I don't know what (or it wouldn't be forgotten) so I'll move on.

1) Random. Somewhat borne out by them choosing to shoot Possum on N1 in lieu of more interesting targets (assuming 5 didn't apply on N1, ofc, which we have no way of knowing). This one rings a bit odd, though, since there are so many reasons that don't assume scum idiocy.

His reads:

Scum is among Irdiumstern/Custer/Blab/Moridin. Moridin>Custer>Irdiumstern.
Sloth is town.
Riley is town.
Titus is town.
Zennith is moderate town.
Lucky's read is dependent on his actions tonight.
Maiden is town.

2) He was right. Honestly, I pretty much agree with most of his reads on this point, so this is a fair issue and my personal pick. It helps that his first pick for scum is me. This means that if Lucky had fired on me (or if I'm lynched today), it would give desperate scum who are also on his list slight leeway to argue their way out of the followup.

3) He was wrong.

He was wrong about all the scum: This means there is no scum in that four person group. That leaves everyone he thought was town and Lucky and Citrus to have two scum in them. Possible, but unlikely.

He was wrong about at least one town read: This means there's one scum in the town list and one in the scum list (and maybe one more in there somewhere, but personally I think it's likeliest we have a scumteam of four). Possible. I'll go over today's posts closer to see if someone's been sticking to his validation too closely, but honestly this is too tenuous a link that will break the moment one of his predictions is wrong (which would have happened last night), so it's not that great a shot.

4) PR reasons. This one makes little sense in a town-Lucky world, especially since I'm not entirely sure what a weatherman does. I have a hard time believing it's more important than taking out a vigilante, unless they have a well funded roleblocker and are okay with booking him for the foreseeable future (come to think of it, that's a potential destination for Ika's gold, though I'd think the daykiller would warrant that more). In scum-Lucky, it makes some more sense, especially given how active Rubicon was. There also arises the question of how they knew he was a power role. We have so far a Wiretapper, a Goon, either a Vigilante or a Roleblocker and a Daykiller (unless the last is a oneshot belonging to any of the roles). Doesn't seem to be much room for an information gatherer outside of the first one. A fifth, with all five having powerful roles, seems unbalanced.

5) Redirection of some sort. Again, we have no way of knowing if that's a concern other than its place on the action priority list. Not sure who'd want to redirect anything onto Rubicon, though. There are scenarios, but they're not as compelling as any of the above reasons.

Either one of my fellow Ms, could I get a summation of the case on Zennith?

 

Moridin,

Here's reason 6, Rubicon is right on all but Riley. The scum went Doctor hunting given their OP state, they assume the town has a doctor so Zennith can never be killed.

---------- Post automerged at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Weatherman was likely a BP since a BP just appeared in the store.

 

The only reason to think that would be the D2 item. It's entirely possible there's an inventor out there, who got the idea of Watcher from Zeit, and had no idea what a Weatherman was so went with something potentially useful for D3. Or even some random 'auction house' type thing from the mod (possibly determined pregame). I don't see how a weatherman translates into bulletproofness outside of flavour nonsense like "mafia have trouble finding you because you're always out catching storms" or some such.

 

Finally back to bearable colors. I honestly couldn’t even stare at the site like this.

@Titus
Your reads are a mixed bag to me:

Agree on Citrus, on everything but the Dresden thing.
In here, much like in Dresden, he talks, but doesn’t take a lot of action, and his vote on you seemed like a snap-shot reaction to me.

Don’t agree on Blab, a lot of his posts don’t feel like he’s pushing as they feel like he’s twisting and manipulating. Several times I pressure him on something and he slips away. He concerns me.
I like to think I’m detached enough that I can be unbiased about that, but admittedly, maybe I’m not. I do consider that he’s trying to troll me due to my being his scumread.
Either way, whatever you feel on him, I’ve seen nothing that would explain an “OMG he is town” you claim to get from him but not me.

On Riley, I already said I’m willing to drop him at this point – either he’s scum, or he’s a town whose only use to Town is in his flip.
I mostly wonder if it’s too good to be true.
My hesitance comes from both Rubicon and Blab swearing by his meta, something I ignored before with you and it bit me. Granted, I really don’t think any scum would make the moves he has with so little pressure.

What’s your stance on Moridin again? I haven’t seen it, or I’m too tired and don’t remember it.

Your points on Mathblade are good, and they match the idea that was running with Custer. I want the catch on the Daychat slip addressed by her.

Also, this,

Why do you think the bulletproof is Fonti’s? I think it’s ika’s. The watch was Zeit’s, and he was lynched. I don’t think the abilities of the dead go to the store, rather the abilities of the lynched.

I don’t know if you clicked my link, but it described a different kind of assassin, more like I was considering.


Let us know once you have word on the roleblock.

--

@Riley

Yep, because lashing out and insulting others has worked extremely well for you.
Seriously, Titus? I don’t think he’s scum. It’s too obvious, what kind of self-respecting scum would react this way to one of the few on his corner?

--

@Citrus

This is a good point. I was really surprised when Titus just went ahead and revealed you just like that. I assumed she’d tell you to do it yourself and leave it up to you.
That said, this is also a reactionary vote on Titus…Are you saying you no longer think Titus is obvTown? Or that her derp is so bad she should be lynched?
In fact, why isn’t this vote on me? That’s what makes sense: I was the one that gave her the prod that got her to out you. So?

--

If I was convinced, I’d have voted on him by now.

But you’re right in that I believe scum has to be amongst Moridin and Blab (Blab more simply due to interaction), so I’m good with this plan, if the others agree with it.

Once I’m lynched tomorrow, it dismisses the strange possibility floating around that I’m the SK –something no one’s actually bothered to explain, by the by – and you all can focus on finding the last scum, assuming I’m close in my thinking.

Also, hm. Titus has a problem with Blab being the one shot. Fine. How about Mathblade instead?

Once I’m dead and I flip Town, I expect you to hit either Blab or Irdium.

---------- Post automerged at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

^the vig shot, not one shot. Ugh. Tired.
Night.

 

@Sloth,

I like you and Blab for not being group!scum for the same reasons. A) You seem to be articulating yourselves, leaving yourself open for attacks, defending reasonably.

Your comments (especially, why aren't you voting me?) seem to definitely play to a desire to be lynched if it helps the town and not in a reactionary you suspect me way.

Blab, meanwhile, has the consistently and intelligent ping-pong of someone deep in thought. I can get in his head just as well as I can get into yours. There's a consistency there. You may think Blab has the game wrong (as I think his read on Riley is wrong) but the train of thought is trackable and does not have obvious scum motivation.

917 really gives me great vibes about Blab in particular. The confusion but still highlighting why he's confused is an open invitation to be helped. That generally doesn't come from scum as it gets awkward if someone calls them up on said invitation.

Moridin is a weaker townread for me. He has rare moments where I think he could be scum, but with two obvious group scum running around he cannot be that. His play also leaves him vulnerable to being lynched. I haven't made a big deal about him because I'm not as sure, I just a little PoEish on this read here.


I like Fonti as a BP because we know ika was NOT a bulletproof. ika was a jailed goon (and presumably the designated killer) while he was alive. Your point about lynched abilities winding up in the store is well taken.

Mathblade being shot would make my day.


The assassin role (goon with a dayvig) makes sense for ika, but for what Citrus is. But that would mean that the mafia failed to kill night 1 and the night 1 victim was due to a third party.

The other assassin role would be an interesting third party. I wouldn't rule it out of being here, but with so many possible kill variants in the game, I just am not sure.

You also speculated about a strongman (mafia kill that can bypass protections). Interesting theory but there's nothing more I can relate to that.

 

The first part points out a possible connection between the players, but he's not swayed excessively by it and he's not just caving to Titus.

You said the two people you'd like to lynch are Moridin and blab. I agree on Moridin. I've had him as a scumread since nemrut on day 1. So he's the best lynch atm in my opinion.

 

When does Day end, btw?

 

So what's the plan after you guys follow through with tradition and mislynchnme yet again Sloth? Titus?

 

Thirteen hours approximately from this post.

Since we all agreed Custer was scummy and Mathblade's slip needs explaining can we vote her?

---------- Post automerged at 06:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 AM ----------

Riley, stop AtEing and answer my questions on Mathblade.

---------- Post automerged at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

Flavor can translate that way. It doesn't make sense for the mod to go bulletproof in store without relevance. We are all likely townsfolk anyway caught at a bank. The weatherman can survive one shot due to cult of personality maybe.

---------- Post automerged at 06:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 AM ----------

Alpha Vote: Mathblade

 

I can't say more on her as I don't really know much. I stand by what I said earlier though. She's new and is making nebie mistakes. I'm sorry but I just don't see scum there yet.

Stop avoiding my question Titus. When you mislynch me (which you seem determined to do) who are you going to focus on? I'll give you a read on that person that you can then work from.

@Sloth. If I flip town and you don't focus on Titus (who is the figure head of the lynch on me) then you're the biggest idiot ever.

No one is townfirmed until they flip. Remember that.

---------- Post automerged at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 AM ----------

Newbie mistakes*

 

Riley, AtE is not a question. You aren't a mislynch...and it should be obvious, I want Mathblade dead.

People can be townfirmed prior to the flip. Ex: Zennith.

---------- Post automerged at 06:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 AM ----------

Riley, please directly answer the questions on Mathblade. Quote them and reply individually.

---------- Post automerged at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------

Phone posts from me for the rest of the day.

 

@Titus: I told you exactly what I felt about Mathblade. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. She's a null read because I've only seen her RP posts which happened because she's new.

I've also seen her snipe back and forth with you and you're pushing for her lynch almlost feels like nervous scum trying to remove someone who can meta your game and potentially upset any plans you might have honestly.

Considering her reads are all opposed to yours (which you've already implied, I'm just paraphrasing) I can't help but feel that the reason you want to off MathBlade is more because she poses a danger to whatever plans you might have than any scumminess she might have accrued.

Plus we know how Custer was acting versus how she's acting and if I were scum I'd be much more aggressively scum hunting than she seems to be. Her lackadaisical approach has therefore left me at a null-read as unfortunately I can't be certain if she's town but I also can't be certain if she's scum. It's been 1 Day Titus and you're on her like a fat kid on cake.

It also keeps me thinking you're scum, so there is that I suppose.

---------- Post automerged at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

Also, what does AtE stand for then?

---------- Post automerged at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

And No they can't be townfirmed until they flip unless the Mod decides to actively engage in answering the question. We can only assume until they flip. That's basic Mafia Paranoia, outside of certain mechanics I suppose (none come to mind immediately beyond those that require Mod interaction).

 

My sister cannot meta my game as we have never been in the same game at the same time.

AtE is appeal to emotion.

Scum cannot scumhunt. Scum can only SK hunt as they already know who groupscum is.

You specfically missed the daychat slip question.

Mathblades reads are shit. She is FoSing quite a few town based on an impossible theory.

Zennith is townfirmed bc scum could kill me and then cry strongman. Zennith cannot be third party bc jailed. There is no way Zennith can be scum.

 

I am not AtEing then, I'm stating a fact. When you mislynch me, who are you going to look at?

As for Meta, just because she didn't play with you doesn't mean she can't access your previous games. I would have done so beyond DLP already if I did too.

I'm gonna ignore the idea that MathBlade's reads are shit because you're biased at this time.

Daychat: I assumed it was a new mistake based on something that already happened that Proph advised me not to discuss. Ask him if you don't believe me (I doubt you will all things considered).

I'm not sure how you completely missed the idea that when you're scum, you scum hunt to blend into town. Either you're an idiot, you take things too literally or you're ignoring a very obvious scum tactic for other reasons.

I suppose an argument could be made for Zennith being town based on Mechanics, but that leaves you in the cold as we've not seen anything to townfirm you aside from being jailed in the night and talking to Citrus. Are your roles revealed in Jail? Did you do something that someone else can confirm in thread?

 

@Titus: 1), 3) and 4) from Rubicon's read, which is post #887.

anyway,
Sloth is not going to get lynched toDay,
no way I'm going to vote for Zennith,
the votes for Moridin make a bit uneasy, plus I like most of his #1102.
Unvote
Vote: Mathblade

@Riley: read on Moridin, please. I have nothing down except the discussion about Moridin being "new".

 

First, I don't care about being in the cold.

Second, a) I got Zeit and ika lynched. B) I commuted with Zennith tried to jail me confirming my whereabouts n1. c) I have an action during the day, my double vote.

As for Mathblade, she said SHE is going to get daychat.

Scum literally cannot scumhunt but fake it.

I am nit answering whether roles are revealed in jail as that only helps scum/third party.

---------- Post automerged at 08:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------

1) I don't see him having a clear train of thought. Anyone can be stubborn, especially scum.

3) Asking about icecream works if you got nothing better to ask about because you can't scumhunt.

4) Scum can't be transparent and have actions that benefit scum? That's ridiculous and wifomy. Don't wifom away obvious scum motivation.

 

@Blab: I meant new to the game at the time I stated that, just for clarification. Titus intentionally or unintentionally misunderstood that and blew it up in thread.

I tried to go back and do a read on Moridin and it's mostly town. Good questions, decent scenario thoughts and the RL inactivity is something I've seen happen before with Moridin once I went back and looked at previous games. Honestly, not seeing the scum target at this time. That doesn't mean I won't be watching but for now I'm not nearly as worried about Moridin.

@Titus:
1)Ok, that's fine.
2) a) you didn't do that on your lonesome. Zeit flipped. Ika was a group choice. Don't try to ringlead.
b) and c) will be ignored for the sake of lessening the number of simultaneous arguments you seem insistent on having.

3)She just mentioned Daychat. Again, something happened. Speak to Proph about it. Suffice to say I can't use that knowledge in good faith to mark her as scum.

4)I'm just gonna put you down as a combo of A and B because obviously they're faking it.

5) Fine, but so be it when I don't believe you for a second. Just like you seem to disbelieve that my claim as Town Auditor is fake.

---------- Post automerged at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------

You realize that focusing on the whole Ice Cream thing only makes me further think you're scum. It's like pointing at a question asked on D1 and saying "But town would never be this stupid"...oh, wait. That's exactly what's happening.

For the record: I generally ask a stupid question D1 and see what happens. I already explained to Sloth the first level of reasoning behind it. Now I'll explain the second. When scum is nervous, or is trying to point blank lynch me. They usually use two things against me.

1) My derpiness. I admit, I'm not the best player, in fact I'm one of the worst. That said, I'm not stupid and they know this, so they point at the stupid shit I do and try to tunnel me into a lynch or NK or SK.

2) I don't ask stupid questions because they're silly. People assume that's the case and move on.

The only ones who keep bringing it up in past games were generally overzealous new players and Scum. I can for certain tell you which one you aren't.

---------- Post automerged at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

You keep making mountains out of molehills and it's leading to big long posts from others and then little from you while you're on your phone. That is also a scum tactic.

---------- Post automerged at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

In case you ask why (because you seem to be unable to make inferences yourself): It's a scum tactic because it causes new pages to be created, meaning that those who are town have to scramble to catch up and that can result in mistakes. By controlling the flow of posting and the game you're basically causing Town to have to continually play catch up. That, boys and girls, is a delightful scum tactic.

 

Wow! I go to sleep for 8 hours and a LOT happens! Give me a few to catch up here and I'll try to get everything. If I miss a post I should have responded to, just let me know and I will respond. Jokingly: Do ya'll sleep?

---------- Post automerged at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

@Sloth:
So according to this you have been in jailchat as well.
Zennith, Citrus, Titus, Ika, and Sloth in jailchat for 3 days of game. That means the jailer (assuming it is Zennith) had to jail 4 people in 3 days. If we started on night 1 I might buy it. But it started on Day 1. Does anyone find that suspicious? I am thinking more likely it is mafia chat. You can do a search for the word jailchat and see where the players have been saying they have info from this “jailchat”. At the very least these people are aligned.

Ask Citrus. I just want access to one of the numerous side chats that exist. It’s hard to figure out who is scum and who is town without information. I am going to get that access because I need it to stay alive.

@Titus: Yes I did say I am going to get it, because I’m a determined gamer to find the root of this scumminess. To do that I need information. Information scum doesn't want me to have because then it would be clear who is scum.

@blab: We just haven’t been online at the same time. I’ve been busy trying to get the gradschool stuff put together. The last piece I will get this evening and I owe my bud some FFXIV crafting items. I need more interaction with Riley to figure out if he is scum or not.

@Titus: Except for the fact that is illogical. Vanilla Townies ALL have 3 gold to start with according to the mod. And why would you put in a request to jail chat and not the mod? The mod would tell you clearly when your abilities work right?
@Citrus: Why didn’t you correct her if you are Vanilla Town?
@Titus and Citrus: Or is the other option that the Moderator lied to us at the start and it’s a massive conspiracy?



-------------My own thoughts--------

@Titus: If Riley and I were a combo wouldn't we like, need to talk to each other? For being in an alliance we sure interact *a lot* /sarcasm. It would make more sense that Maiden and I were in an alliance than Riley and I.

 

Zennith made the claim that he started with Ika and Sloth in Jail at the beginning of game. The only additions have been Citrus and Titus. Unfortunately that rules out Mafia chat.

As for Daychat, again you're confusing a random mechanic with a Jail Mechanic. Those in Jail are allowed to talk during the day and that's where the daychat comment came from.




That said, Titus is still my number one suspicion. I await a response to what I've posted. We'll see what happens.