Eh, not so much...

I believe my childhood neighbors with five daughters named the youngest Dolores, which was a propos- that kid never smiled. They called her 'Dot' for short.

 

Okay, I'm sure this has been discussed here (seems it became a big deal in 2007) and is probably not new to most people. It's new to me, however, so I wonder what people here think about the idea that Dolores Umbridge was raped by the centaurs.

See this for the discussion.

 

I would like to see that. I can see a potential porn story here. It would be awesome. And maybe a little awkward. Is it even physically possible? I assume that centaur's reproductive organs are located in the same place as with horses, so that centaur would have to lay down on her and possibly crush her underneath him. Also, I find the idea of centaurs finding Umbridge attractive rather doubtful.

On another note, that article was strange. I have to assume that author of that meant it as a joke, because surely noone can take this particular part of canon offensively. Not even feminists.

 

On the one hand, I'd agree with the point that it seems unlikely that Rowling wasn't aware of the centaur's tendency towards rape, given the amount of classical detail and research she does. On the other hand, assuming Umbridge was (gang?) raped, that would be in the top two nastiest thing to happen in the books (the second being the desecration of Bathilda Bagshot's body as a vessel for Nagini), and supremely unlikely as something she would intend to be implied, to my mind.

Equally, there's the fact that they live next to Hogwarts. Yes, it's the Forbidden Forest. Yes, particularly during Harry's time there, security is remarkably lax. But there's a massive difference between letting belligerent magical creatures who'll try and shoot you if you trespass live in the grounds, and letting magical creatures with a pathological drive to rape the students live there. EDIT: There's also the matter of Firenze. If there was that urge to rape, then no way is Dumbledore going to hire him as a professor. If there isn't the urge, then the whole argument is rendered somewhat moot, because then it's just random speculation about what they might have done.

There's a whole host of unfortunate implications in the scene, but I just can't see it being intentional.

Edit 2:

Actually, they can. There are a bunch of myths where centaurs at least attempt to rape people. Rowling has a tendency to draw on myth, folklore etc for background detail. She's not shy about implying more risque things than can reasonably be addressed in children's books (for instance, Aberforth's possible goat fetish, where she's at least aware of the implications). Put those facts together, and it's not a wholly unreasonable conclusion. Particularly given that Umbridge's state in the aftermath of the attack holds some similarities with...well, any victim of a traumatic event, tbh, but certainly rape. So I can see how the conclusion can be arrived at. I just don't think it makes sense in the wider context of the setting, even before you start to think about whether Hermione is the kind of person who would deliberately inflict that on even her worst enemy, or whether you think that's territory Rowling would want to go to.

 

This, I think is the same way I read it. It's not part of authorial intent, but it is there to be read into the text without too much stretching of the imagination.

 

I don't see the centaurs wanting to have sex with humans who they consider beneath them. I think that part of their lore was left out by JKR (Fantastic Beasts mentions that Muggles 'knowledge' about creatures is hilariously inexact)

That said, can't really say she wouldn't deserve it.

 

I always reasoned that no living creature on the planet would desire sexual intercourse with Umbridge. Surely there are better looking centaurs than her.

Alternatively, there's also the idea that if the rape happened, it wasn't any kind of punishment. She wasn't dragged into the forest because someone decided that would be her sentence, she was dragged into the forest because she's an insufferable bitch who provoked and threatened a group of beings she doesn't even consider intelligent, let alone merciful, and who made it obvious that they were about to hurt her unless she stopped talking.

Not that that justifies rape, but it's hard to see it as a punishment when it was written as more of a spontaneous retaliation to her own violence, and no rape was ever even mentioned.

 

Well, first of all, no. No-one actually deserves to be raped, but I'll assume that's just unfortunate hyperbole born out of hatred of Umbridge (seriously though: no).

Secondly, that sentiment is probably why this scene gets the attention it does - eight of the first ten entries for a Google search of 'centaurs rape' are referring to Umbridge rather than mythology. It's one thing for a book, even a children's book, to imply that someone has been raped. It's quite another for a children's book to imply it, imply that the author's favourite character has deliberately planned it, and then make a joke about it.

 

No-one deserves to have their soul sucked out either, so I'd consider it karma.

And nobody was saying Hermione planned it, or actually knew that was what happened. From the way Hermione talks to the centaurs, I get the impression her knowledge of them is rather limited.

But like I said, I don't think any rape actually happened.

 

...If you go along with that way of thinking. Suddenly, Hermione isn't quite as 'perfect' as all her real-world fanboys would think.

I mean, she does have a little vengeful streak in her. For instance, imprisoning a woman turned into a beetle in a jar for months on end...

Personally, I can kind of see it. But that's just because after HBP I just couldn't stand her anymore. She comes off as a hypocritical, jealous cunt with a disturbing need to always be right.

But no man. Give the Centaur's some props here. They are at the very least half-human male and not even Smeagle/Golum would willingly touch Umbridge's fat, wrinkly saggy arse.

Edit: Oh god...bad image! Bad image! Bad image! I need some brain bleach before I throw up. Must.....Repress.

 

Nobody here was saying it, maybe.

From the article that inspired the topic.

Actually, that takes me to another, somewhat related question, because I don't have my books to hand: does Hermione take Umbridge in there for the centaurs to deal with her, or Grawp? I know one of them is unexpected, I just can't remember which.

(Also, with regard to the soul sucking: true, but that's not actually possible in reality, whereas potential implication of rape as justified and hilarious punishment steps into murkier waters. Anyway, the justification of rape is really not a topic that DLP needs to repeat.)

 

You know, I actually thought about looking that up before I posted, just to make sure. Decided not to bother. I'm wondering where on earth I got it from now.

 

I think she meant to find the centaurs or rather the centaurs to find them. Iirc Harry mentions they're going the wrong way to find Grawp, that they're actually walking towards Aragog.

Wow, fail-topic is fail.

But I wasn't arguing about rape being a justified punishment, and especially not hilarious. Or were you referring to the articles viewpoint where Hermione deliberately set Umbridge up to get raped and then jokes about it?

 

I don't think Hermione knew exactly what was going to happen with the centaurs, though. For a time, it looks like she and Harry might get pwnt as well, but either Harry or Hermione talks their way out of it for both of them.

The extent of Hermione's planning seemed to be knowing that Umbridge would get herself taken out of the equation. She didn't know exactly how, though. All she could count upon was the fact that Umbridge would say or do something idiotic when confronted by centaurs.

EDIT: I think Hermione also accidentally insults them. IIRC, her intention was to lead Umbridge to Grawp, not the centaurs.

But which is worse? Crushed by a giant or gang-raped by centaurs? Damn, Hermione...cold world, no blanket.

 

More the article than your comment (although as may be apparent, comments like 'can't really say she wouldn't have deserved it' raise my hackles, perhaps unnecessarily), although that attitude is more apparent in discussions I've seen about the topic elsewhere.

 

This is probably one of those 'Aberforth and his goat charm' jokes that JKR threw in for the adults, which is left entirely up to the reader to decide upon.

 

Quotes from OotP:

 

Okay, so she definitely intended centaurs, but it does seem to be true that the Centaurs threatened them as well, and that she didn't really know just what was going to happen. She was counting on Umbridge to talk herself into trouble, but just what kind and how likely the plan's success was seem to have been ultimately unknown to Hermione.

 

Hermione knew enough about centaurs to think that she could talk her way out of any trouble. That was a bad assumption because the centaur she had the most experience with was unusual in his pro-humanity stance. All in all they got lucky. The centaurs most of all.

 

What a train wreck, but the following post almost saved that entire thread.