Is it just me or did my earlier reply get eaten? It says I made a post, but I'm not seeing it here. I guess I'll just redo it.

EDIT: Oh, there it was. For some reason it wasn't showing it to me until it automerged it.

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Forgive me but I kind of doubt anyone actually cares that much about Cyborg. What are you drawing this from?

No, I don't, because I'm never really looking for representations of me. I'm not interesting. I don't want to read about me.

I would think that the characters in comic books can be appealing to anyone regardless of whether they're black or Hispanic or an alien or whatever, because they have traits and values that are universally appealing. They don't need to change to conform to anything, they're good as they are.

(I suppose that's as much as a response to the race-bending they tend to as much as reorganizing teams, actually.)

Getting new readers, or at least the kind of new readers they keep looking for, is a waste of time. All they do when they pull those stunts is alienate the audience that's stuck with them for years and actually cares in exchange for an audience that might pick up some issues for a few weeks or months, and then quickly get bored and go back to ignoring or insulting them. They're never going to get a huge audience with comics (movies are another story though, it looks like). I think instead of reaching out to that unattainable audience, they should be consistent and let people come to them.

 

Oh, I'm not saying there's a "CYBORG MUST HAVE TRILOGY OF FILMS" kind of people. But a lot of people online on comic book forums I frequented for curious/excited/intrigued to see him in the Justice League line up under Geoff John's stewardship after he'd started getting more prominent with Flashpoint (2011 event). The fact that they've largely dropped the ball since then has also been a source of criticism and griping. And people have been asking for a Cyborg book for some time.

And you're a grown up (I think). I'm talking about the next generation of comic book readers, kids who watch cartoons or have their parents take them to films. It's why Marvel goes with the more PG-13 humorous route, because that directly touches entire families more.

You need something visual to hook people in though. Superman smashing a car, Batman crouched over a building, Icon taking flight, etc...

Personal case in point, I got into comics in 2004 thanks to Black Panther under Christopher Priest, who I identified with because he wasn't a white American superhero but came from a third world region with significant tribal and ethnic politics hamstring development and unity. To this day Black Panther is my most favorite character in comics, and the only character I'll put good money down for. People have felt much the same for Wonder Woman (biggest female superhero in comics), John Stewart (god the GL strife him and Jordan cause), etc...

I don't quite disagree... but the old readers aren't going anywhere. They'll bitch and complain, but they'll be back sooner or later buying something. As opposed to the theoretical golden goose that is the new reader.

 

This is probably the best place to post this:

http://weknowmemes.com/2014/04/one-will-protect-you-the-other-9-will-try-to-kill-you/

I saw this initially posted on facebook, having been shared from Robert Downey Jr's page. In the comments, there was an argument about Spiderman and Batman, and I was wondering what DLPers thought about that hypothetical. This is coming from someone with minimal (at best) knowledge of the comic book universe.

Who do you think would win in a fight, Batman or Spiderman?

 

I doubt this is the best place to post this, but I will answer. Without a prep time Spidey, with a prep time Batman.

 

Definitely Spidey. If you want to factor in prep time, it might go down to around 7/10 fights in Spidey's favour.

 

Spidey because Batman is a really boring unlikeable character.

 

I really want to say Spiderman. I really do. Sadly, I can't. The answer is Batman. The answer is always Batman.

 

Versus arguments are always stupid.

Yeah, he's so boring and unlikeable. That's why he's been one of the most popular characters in fiction since the 1940s.

 

The problem with factoring in prep time....is that Batman always preps. He has faced beings with powers far beyond Spiderman's. First of all the spider motif would give Bruce some indication of what he was facing. He has already planned ahead for this kind of fight even though he was not expecting it to occur at this time.

Anyway to get away from the derailment, I'm not really sure how I feel about the Cyborg Casting...

 

Spiderman is a certified genius in his own right. He has that plus his powers. I think even with Bats preping, it's in Spidey's favour 6/10 times. His spider sense coupled with the ability to knock out a normal human being with a tap to the head just means he needs one hit on Batman to take him out.

Back on topic: if they introduce an older batman, how many films can they make with the justice league before Bruce has to retire from old age..?

 

Are they aware that they are going to fight each other? Do they have time to prepare? What environment are they fighting in? What are the conditions of the match? Are we talking forced to fight in an alien gladatorial arena at the drop of a hat with whatever they have on them at the time, or are they hunting each other over the course of a week in a city they are both familiar with? What versions of the characters are being used? What gear do they have with them? Is this a grudge match, or are they being manipulated (i.e. is it possible for one of them to find out the truth and call a truce)? Do they have their normal resources available to them, or is it whatever they can find and take with their bare hands? How long will the fight last? Is it to the death, to knockout, to incapacitation, or is a third party judging based on other criteria? What gear do they have with them, and are they allowed to appropriate more?

Oh, wait, I keep forgetting that these are never serious discussions about hypothetical fantasy combat scenarios. It's always my dad can beat up your dad. Which always makes me sad, because I like serious discussions about hypothetical fantasy combat scenarios. We just can't have nice things anymore, is all.

Also, I pick Superman, because he's the biggest goddamn Mary Sue to ever exist this side of Doctor Who. He wouldn't fail to protect me if everyone else on the list joined forces to kick my ass.

 

Spiderman is a different type of genius though. Batman's smart's are tactical/preparation/combative. Peter's are definitely more scientific. Yeah, Peter has powers, but Batman simply has more feats against people -like- or -better- than Peter in this power set. Plus...I just don't think Peter will be able to get that hit in on Batman.

 

Spider-man also has years of experience fighting. Plus he has gotten training several times from various people, including Captain America. Also don't forget about his speed and strength, Spider-man is fast as fuck when he wants to be. With his spider sense he can get around alot of what Batman will that throw at him. His strength is also pretty high, normally between 15-30 tons depending on the writer at the time. Even at the lower end he really only needs one hit to fuck up Batman's week.

 

If I had the powers of a god, I would forever forbid Batman from coming up in versus discussions ever again.

He's a completely normal human. He's at his best in gritty days of yesteryear noire like Batman: Year One, where normal fucking thugs can give him serious injuries. Batman is a badass specifically because he has absolutely nothing going for him besides a really big budget and an unflappable will to save Gotham. The fact that he is a 'mere mortal' is what makes him awesome.

As a result, pitching him against other heroes that have superpowers and asking "who would win" is almost never an actual dissertation on what he can do. It's always a popularity contest. Every 'win' Batman has revolves around some Deus Ex Machina in his favor, like how he would never go anywhere without a sliver of Kryptonite, because it's not like that shit is violently radioactive and will fucking kill you even if you aren't from Krypton if you hang around it too long, or how he'd have some kind of bug spray engineered specifically to stop magic from working, or whatever.

Batman is one of my favorite superheroes. Ever. I fucking love Batman. You want to know the truth? He'd lose basically every single one of his fights against other heroes. He could maybe, maybe take the Titans, but he'd get fucked up in the process.

Batman doesn't fight fair. He uses nets, knockout gas, stun guns, billyclubs to the back of the head. He has to. There's no other way to keep the mobsters, serial killers, and psychopaths that infest Gotham in line, because again, Batman doesn't have any superpowers to fall back on. Fighting dirty is literally all he has. That doesn't really translate well into a 'fight' with another hero. The only advantage he can truly leverage besides his mind is not fighting people fairly or directly. That's why his fighting montages where he takes down a bunch of dudes involve him leaning out of the shadows and choking a guy out, and beaning mobsters in the temple with batarangs. If Batman is forced to actually fight someone straight up, he's already lost the war, even if he wins the fight.

There's a reason Ras only ever calls Batman "Detective." He respects his mind more than his body. Strong backs are a dime a dozen. Strong minds are what change the world. A strong mind is what makes Batman so dangerous, but it's also the proof that he can't go toe-to-toe with living superpowers. Superman is supposed to be hyper intelligent, smarter than any normal human could ever be. And yet he never uses that intelligence to solve problems. Why? Because why solve a problem intelligently when you can just punch it hard enough that it evaporates? Superman never has to approach a situation in any other direction besides "head on," because he's fucking Superman. Batman is different, which is why Batman automatically loses anything remotely approximating a "head on fight." Batman doesn't fight people head on. Ever. He can't. He'd get his ass kicked. Captain America would beat the living shit out of him. Cyborg would rip his fucking arms off. Wonder Woman would put his head on a pike. Wolverine would make sashimi out of him. Superman would win in a timespan so fucking short only the Flash would have been able to see enough of it to appreciate the fight, if you could even call it a fight.

Batman vs Superman, Superman wins because he's fucking Superman.

Batman vs Spiderman, Spiderman wins because Peter can throw cars a hundred meters through the air when he's pissed off, and most of Batman's tricks won't work because of the Spider Sense.

Batman vs Literally Anybody With Actual Fucking Superpowers, the odds are massively in their favor if it's anything remotely close to a straight up, knock-down drag-out fight.

The only time Batman should ever come up in a 'versus' match is if we're talking about some kind of Running Man scenario. /tg/ did a couple of those some time back, and I enjoyed the hell out of them. It was fun debating who would win if three Halo Spartans went head-top-head against a single Space Marine, and were dropped on a primeval alien jungle world and could only leave once the opposing side was dead. They could only bring what they could carry, they knew what they were getting into, they geared up accordingly, and they deployed in different but relatively nearby locations, without any knowledge of where the others were. Ammunition was limited to what they could bring on their persons, no additional support would be coming, no help could be provided from the outside, and if they wanted anything else, they'd have to fashion it themselves on-site with on-site materials.

That was fun as hell to discuss. This? This isn't fun. This isn't a known scenario. This is just 'who would win,' not 'who would win if,' and the if is the most important part. Lacking the if, all we have is a guy without superpowers going up against people who can juggle cars in a poorly defined contest that has a lot of implied violence involved. With such vague outlines, the win goes to the superpowers every time, because it would take extraordinary circumstances for it to go the other way; thus, we admit by default the non-superpower winning is the exception, which thus proves the rule.

tl;dr, if you have to ask if Batman would win in a versus matchup, assume the answer is no.

 

Tony Stark is a normal human. I know he uses the Iron Man suit, whereas Bruce's suit is less bulky and doesn't hold about fifty million different weapons but in a hypothetical situation where Bruce is allowed prep time to work on a suit to combat a super human, let's say Spidey this time, what are your thoughts on the fight. You can change environment to include variations on your thoughts.

ON TOPIC: Has it been stated there is no such thing as Kryptonite in the Man of Steel universe? I thought it had but I'm not sure.

 

First image of Batfleck. Doesn't look so bad.

https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/466249462348644352/photo/1

 

Anyone with a "toned" body and a face can rock a cowl really.

 

The suit's muscle contours are a little comically overpronounced, but at least it doesn't have bat-nips and a codpiece.

Small miracles.

 

Costume looks ok. Batmobile looks like a cross between Burton and Nolan, which could be interesting.

 

Was hoping to avoid tiny Bat-ears. Oh well. Could be worse.