.....loch and Titus *

 

@Rubicon: I can only coast if people let me.

Right now I'm going through Titus' reads/interactions and TerRaine's posts in ISO. Trying to decide if I should vote TerRaine or not. Titus pushed for her lynch + Titus' NK + TerRaine busting out a tryhard wall at the very start of the Day + some of her responses to Titus were pretty passive aggressive and come off pretty strong, imo.

I do think scum team is experienced player + newb, so Rubicon/TerRaine would make sense. Then again, her interactions with Rubicon feel unaligned so I need to look at that more.

 

Okay now do that again but justify all these statements with quotes and supporting evidence.

 

You got it.

 

(Please note that dreams are not admissible evidence in this court of law.)

 

I had only reached snow and math of you notice my points are from earlier in the game I started from the beginning and am moving along now brb food time

 

((You're the one who said it wasn't a dream.))

((Totally real vote: Rubicon))

 

No mentions of LochNess either, though.

 

@TerRaine: I can't tell if you actually think the reasoning you give in #1253 suggests that a player is scummy but it certainly doesn't read like you're looking for scum to me; more like players you can cast as scum if you can cast enough doubt on them.

VOTE TerRaine

 

Okay so. The more I read TerRaine's posts the more I think she's town, at least up until Titus joins the fray. Then TerRain'e attitude sort of...shifts.

Starting here. She's more snippy and aggressive, and there's no sense of that for the first half of the game. By the way, in this post I'm pretty sure Titus was referring to a Citrus ML but TerRaine reacted like Titus was talking about her. Or I'm just confused.

Even just skimming her ISO posts, you can immediately tell in which ones she's talking to Titus.

What? Is there any reasoning specifically you disagree with? Because it's kind of a long post. And she sounds exactly like she's looking for scum so I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.

 

Why is this the second time you've changed your mind on me AND you're now suddenly agreeing with things I was saying yesterday?

Looking at each specific situation I understand your reasoning, but if I zoom back out it looks like you've been trying to mislynch me, then trying to sway me to follow your lynches when you didn't think it were possible.

NOW Snowvon is pinging you? I don't know if I buy all that

 

Atum, I've been ISOing you, and your light townread on me has been based on gut for the entirety of the game, at least as far as I can tell. I am very suspicious of people who do that when everyone and their mother has been calling me on my shit.

Your main scumspects seem to be TerRaine, Rubicon, and Citrus. Which pair?

 

I’m new Rubi not stupid. If I were scum why would I paint a target on my back and go for the person bandwagoning me the very Night after it happened. Its not like Titus was shy in her suspicion of me. Its not like her NK made all her claims and paranoia of me go away or hid it away from you guys. All it did was make it and me look worse.

Would YOU have killed of you were a scum in this position? It’s a bone head play.

By that point in the game Loch was still largely MIA. I have given my read of Loch a few times and nothing has changed since. I wasn’t going to rehash an old read that tells you all nothing. And I know Titus hadn’t tagged in yet because I haven’t reached the part in the game where Math mentioned mod killing/replacing Loch.

I’m going from game start and looking for clues as my highest scum read was a bust. If you test a hypothesis and its wrong you go back to the start to find where you went wrong. You don’t jump around in a panic looking for variables at random.

And yes. I do think unexplained vote switching to a person someone claims to have NO scum feel on mere posts prior to their switch is scummy. Or panic over something that could have been a scum tell. If you make a mistake and mispeak in a game as town you explain yourself and move on. Perhaps righteous anger if they harp on it. What seems scummy to me is to get fidgeting panicky and overly forceful by going WEEEEEE Im Tooooooowwwn while supplying little to back it up

I’m not pulling the Snow and Math suspects out of thin air. Others have prodded them for scummy behavior in the past pages as well. My trail went dead so I’m looking elsewhere.

 

It's pretty simple. I thought your jump on me yesterday, right while I pressured you, was wildly inconsistent + close to a scum claim. It pattern-matched 100% for caught scum flailing at me, thus my comment about pumping my fist. Your subsequent posts were not good either since you ignored my reaction. Overall? I still read you as scum. The Titus kill also fits a scum-Citrus world.

BUT.

If there was chat before this game and you asked Riley and he said no pre-game chat, that forces me to reconsider.

If I were scum, I wouldn't be semi-clearing you at all coming into today, I'd be riding the momentum of ika's last few posts and continuing to tunnel on you. This is not what me trying to mislynch someone looks like, it's me trying to solve a game from an uninformed majority POV.

Also, "trying to sway me to follow your lynches" is probably the wrong way to describe what I'm doing. I want to get inside your head and figure out whether I'm correct in clearing you. Scum have a very hard time working with me to solve games, so I want to see what you can contribute.

Why not?

I explained my Snowvon read in detail day 1, however there are several reasons to look at him. One, me surviving this long could mean I've been defending town. Two, his play yesterday was the definition of coasting. Three, PoE from my previous town reads has me looking at the two new replacements, and that makes me uncomfortable -- too easy. Four, the Lyrium kill makes some sense coming from Snow.

 

Of course you could /shrug Titus was actively trying to pressure a mislynch on me and refusing to even consider my responses and replies. I found it funny in an ironic way she was commenting on Rubi forcing a mislynch through when she was doing it herself. My responses to Titus got aggressive after she made it clear that it didn't matter WHAT occurred in thread she was going to Wagon me. It distracted her and made her sloppy.

She accused me of ignorance to things going on in game because I didnt have time to address her current Rubi push at the moment she wanted me to and it snowballed from there.

When I defended these accusations she outright ignored everything and instead made up a scum tell that didn't exist. In post 953 Sloth asked me who I thought the day's target should be. By the time I was back to answer we were rounding down to day end. I typed out my post 1006 only to post and realize I never finished the sentence that answers that question. I left a note at the end saying I didn't and would later. When I finally was able to do so Titus chimes in with "She's asking permission to tunnel...total scum move" when that didn't even happen.

I pointed this out too and it was ignored. I'm sorry we lost another town but Titus was barking up the wrong tree and I gave her all the reasons why. She chose not to read them.

---------- Post automerged at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Going to head back to working up more reads. Ill check back periodically if people have anything they want to ask me

(interview went well...so yay?)

 

@Snowvon: I'll address the town read thing first since it's easiest. Like you said, just about everyone has questioned you in regard to how you've gone through the game. Why would I need to follow up if I don't think I've seen anything they missed. There's no point in beating a dead horse and at this point, I'm not sure what would town firm you more in my eyes other than mod confirmation. It's gut, but like you said it's a slight town read and with the way I think about the game it could very easily shift to a slight scum read a la my perception of Sloth. I've seen what happens when others try to get you to give them material to work with to help place your alignment and it doesn't really do anything for me so I rely on the rest of the town to see if you're scum and present the reasons I'm not seeing.

My TerRaine vote is in response to reasoning Titus pointed out and a few details that stood out to me as I read her posts. That being said, #1253 is a large post, and I'll admit to only having skimmed it before voting her but here's the short version of what I disagree with.

The opening in her argument as to Mathblade's scumminess basically seems like she's trying to paint mistakes as scummy. I get that it's part of the game but not much of what was pointed out had much weight, to me. The issue with the number of wolves has been addressed multiple times. Her point about #443 is not so much interpreting what's written as it sounds like applying her own "belief" that Math is scum to a post that could arguably support it.

Her point about the knee-jerk reaction is valid, but I'm pretty sure that the reaction she refers to isn't related to the numbers issue, since there are several posts by Math after the fact; Lyrium comments on it multiple times and receives level-headed responses. She's right about the placation issue though.

#491 is a addressed in #496.

So I'll restate my previous post, it's not just that I don't agree with her reasoning, it's also the attempt to cast things in the worse light possible, sort of like leading a witness in court to provoke a specific response or interpretation of events. I apologise if I used that analogy incorrectly.

Her reasons for viewing you as potential scum I felt were largely the same, with a bit more substance but unless you ask for it I'm not going through to point out every instance I agree or disagree with. I will say that it's interesting that you've chosen not to respond to that post in any length. Any particular reason for that lapse?

@TerRaine: How would you back up being town in response to posting something that might be misconstrued as a slip?

 

Ugh I'm sorry but TerRaine is just town. I want to take Titus' push seriously but the reaction she describes above is thought-for-thought my own reaction to Titus tunneling on me yesterday.

To clarify what I was asking for here, Snow, let's break down your previous post:

"Titus pushed for her lynch + Titus' NK + TerRaine busting out a tryhard wall at the very start of the Day"
​

Why do you describe this particular wall as "tryhard"? What makes it tryhard?

"I do think scum team is experienced player + newb"
​

Why do you think this?

"so Rubicon/TerRaine would make sense. Then again, her interactions with Rubicon feel unaligned so I need to look at that more."
​

What about our interactions feels unaligned?

...Um. Do YOU agree with her reasoning?

I'd like to see you actually, you know, respond to the things she said about you. Instead of defending her case on you. Like seriously what the fuck is that.

Vote: Snowvon

---------- Post automerged at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

Clicked submit before I saw Atum's post. Reading.

 

I haven't responded to her post because a lot of her accusations are points that have been stated over and over again. But since you're both asking:

P1: Yeah, I'd rather not go into detail about this because it's dumb. I'm freezing up a lot in this game, and it's going to sound like an excuse no matter how I try to explain it.

P2: I didn't feel the need to go back and look at the numbers? If it was really super life-or-death important I would have checked, but at the time of making the post I didn't feel the need to. You're right, multiple people have run the numbers multiple times, so if anyone wanted to know they could have checked themselves. There was no need for me to post it again.

P3: I'm getting sick of the Prophy thing. He went several hours without talking to me. That doesn't sound long, but this game has short days and pages can spring up pretty quickly. I never brought him up out of nowhere -- I only ever mentioned him when asked about it, and I was only asked two or three times. And in those posts, I was poking fun at Prophy more than legitimately whining about how he wasn't there to hold my hand.

P4: The only issue I really had was with Lyrium, and with so many people confidently saying she was town I didn't feel like tunneling her would have gone anywhere good.

The Maiden thing: I wouldn't say "utterly." I didn't have a good read on her, so while I didn't think she was totally scum, I didn't mind leaving my vote on her.

I'll get to this in a separate post.

I didn't understand why Atum was voting her. Just because I asked him about it doesn't necessarily mean I was defending TerRaine. And he wasn't clear on whether he disagreed with her reasoning on me or MathBlade, I wanted that cleared up as well.

You're confusing me. At one point you said I was so town you needed sunglasses to read my posts, which sounds like a pretty strong townread, and for no apparent reason. Then when you actually use quotes to put your money where your mouth is, I descend into a sort of townread, maybe keep an eye on me. Then you say I'm coasting, and now you're voting for me. Whereas other people have been saying the exact same thing you're saying now, but the difference is they've been saying it since Day 1. What is going on with you?

---------- Post automerged at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

I don't know, I just think the very start of the Day is a weird time for a wall. When Lyrium died, TerRaine was the first to post, and it was just for her reaction to the NK. This time she didn't even mention Titus, or react to the NK at all.

The same reason you're uncomfortable with the idea of both replacements being scum. It's more of a feeling, but given that I'm townreading TerRaine now I'm not going to lock myself into the mindset that the scumteam HAS to be experienced/newb.

Just the way she answered the questions you threw at her (1006, for example). If they were one liners I'd wonder a bit.

 

So....you want me lynched but your only going to skim my posts...because theyre long....do you seriously not see how this is misguided and derp to power of herp?

Nope! Nope nope nope. If you are going to vote me it will not be based on a half assed skim. WHAT reasonings are you bringing over from Titus? Because I'll remind you I countered ALOT of them. What are you own details? You want me out you give specifics at this point not "well titus said some stuff and I saw some stuff."

Ah-hem

"And off topic:

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

Sloth's quote just loaded.

*goes and crawls into a corner of shame*

---------- Post automerged at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Translation there are two wolves and I really messed up and have to readjust since there obviously isn't a trifecta...Since Lyrium and Sloth corrected my fuck up they are probably town which leaves Ika and Maiden likely scum.


Fuck fuck fuck."

You can go check to make sure I didn't go and change anything around.

http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721628&postcount=466

This IS in response to Rileys Modconfirm on the wolf count. She responded several times level headedly because Math by her own admission didnt SEE a modcofirm that was made PAGES back. Its only THEN she flails about like a tuna. After she is placating as all hell and seems to be trying to hard.

I'm not using a court room playbook for that post.

/Waves ^-^ I'm asking for it.

Same way I did with Loch in the beginning and with Titus when she fabricated one. I'd admit I messed up if I did (like a did with loch) evaluate whether that mistake was through my own error or I was manipulated into it by another player, and then consider my situation. In the case of Loch I shrugged off the vote it earned me for the time being. I wasn't in danger of being mislynched or even close. I devoted my time instead to looking into scum reads I was getting and evaluating where I went wrong to make sure I didnt do it again and hurt town.

In the case of Titus is was different as my wagon was larger and had more momentum. I went on the defensive with her and cited WHY she was wrong as I continued to vet my strongest read at the time.

Basically the long and short? I fuck up/am accused of fucking up ? I own it and try to prevent it from happening again and defend myself against misreads while providing stronger cases against people who I feel are scummy

 

Also Rubicon...you agreed with TerRaine on her reasoning for scumreading me but then you vote for her?