Lyrium wasn't Javerting my ass to kingdom come. Titus was. I knew at day end the second Ika flipped town I needed to reboot and come in guns blazing because I figured Titus would be. Instead we're poking her with stick....that doesnt look good for me on the surface of things. So yea I already had a defense set up and I came in with a it so you all don't waste your votes hanging me.

---------- Post automerged at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

....okay...my back hurts. I'm taking a break for a bit mon'amis. I'll return with tea and my laptop later.

---------- Post automerged at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------

Ok...gonna amend that post above me right there. Done for the night and will continue in the AM.

Bonsoir!

 

In my case I was gearing up to lynch her if still around. So that worked out better than expected.

A combination of your play slacking and my reads evolving as we get more flips + pages.

I really think you should make an effort to be more concrete in your posts.

Yup, pressure vote.

---------- Post automerged at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Where are you mbond99?

 

Ok, let’s figure this out. -__-
Maiden was town, Lyrium was town (and seer), and ika was town. And now Titus is Town, but that one’s not that shocking.

PBPA of scummy behavior

@TerRaine (15 D2 posts)
*This is me attempting to look at her and all her posts as a stranger’s, not the girl I know.
-815: Weak as hell starter, possible scummy intent, but simple newbie greenness is just as likely. The addition of the auto-merge, four minutes later, does carry the sensation of feeling the need to elaborate and avoid looking scummy.
-909: Honest frustration on ika, for reasons I think we can all agree with. Her argument to not lynch ika, I already said how it was faulty and there was no benefit in it. …In light of the ika flip, it actually becomes more damning: Scum would want to save an easy ML target like him for a Day or two more.
-924: Refuses to answer the question/consider Rubicon scum (stubbornness?). Slight backpedaling of 909.
-927: Hm. Eh, good enough newbie reasoning on Rubicon. The ‘fuck off’ to Titus makes me feel better actually, her newb!scum would be far more political and exercise in diplomacy more.
-1006: The biggest problem with this post is the response to the ‘dismissal’ of Rubicon, and even then it’s not bad. Otherwise, I am really liking this post as a Townie post that’s trying to figure out the game. This is not scummy—it’s evolution. Like I said, she’s trying to find her footing, and though she’s still rough around the edges, she’s getting a lot better at knowing how town mentality works, and that’s clearest here.
-1055: Plans to tunnel Titus tomorrow – indicates lack of intent to NK her, indicates Town. Could have changed her mind or her partner may have swayed her, but I like it.
-1087+1104+1144: More aggressive ‘fuck off’ness, and I am reminded on my calling Titus out for tunnel-vision on B&T.
-1139: Refusal to go along with ika’s vote to seem Townier – although this was done with Math earlier, so Ter may have known to avoid making her mistake as scum?

Even looking her as a newbie I didn’t meet until now, I see the Town showing up.
So basically – never bring my objectivity into question, Titus. I’m not the kind.

--
@Rubicon (34 D2 posts)
-816: Feels like coaching, although I doubt it. I never saw much of a point for coaching in most games (as they have daychat), but while there’s use for it here, I don’t see Rubicon being this obvious and immediate about it (it’s the very next post even). I’d see him distance himself as scum, especially since before this point there was really nothing connecting him to Ter, and now he unnecessarily put himself in a vote with her.
-819: Quick to jump on ika before he had answered his question at the slightest pressure of math. Didn’t he have him as mostly null town D1? More trolling? Still, makes Mathblade/Rubicon unlikely to have votes back-to-back like that.
-830: Weak defense.
-861: I don’t understand his defense over following Mathblade’s vote (called it coincidence?). Good questions otherwise.
-875: Promised a meta-dive on ika+titus, never delivered all Day. Off-hand, he also didn’t deliver on the 19 pairs.
-983: claims there are vanity wagons, when at the time they’re all pretty even. Also, I find it odd he takes issue with Citrus being annoyed at ika’s vote, when he himself got on Dermon’s case over that one vote.
-1081: this…huh? Thinking he wouldn’t try because it’s a newbie game is the weirdest reason I’ve ever heard to have him scum.

--
@Citrus (48 D2 posts)
-845: ika called this defensive, I suppose it could be, given the f-bomb, but it’s not that weird.
-871: Overly evasive here – so what if you colored it red? Are you going to state your reasons now?
-920: Strikes as more defensive than 845 ever did. The no pregame bit, which was later proved to be misinformation from Riley, so maybe not worth looking into.
-922+992: I actually thought I caught an important slip in 922 yesterDay, but now I’m not sure what to make of it:

How the hell would Citrus know that he’s a strong player?
I waited for Dermon to reply, and he didn’t address it when he did, making Dermon/Citrus was a possibility, until 992:

So, wait, Dermon’s played other games?
As far as I knew and as far as Dermon’s stated if I recall correctly, he’s only played 1 game here: The first Dresden game, which he had to leave right after D1. Where’s this other game coming from?
-997: Still doesn’t make sense to me. Of course scum wouldn’t jump on the wagon of a player that’s tunneling them.
-1010+1013: Ever explained the redacteds, Citrus?

He brings up 581-598, more than necessary, I think, yet reading it doesn’t really clear either, I can see a smart scum getting involved in such a conversation to subtly influence where a stronger player’s attention goes. However, it’s this very exchange that makes me really doubt they’re both scum.

--
@Mathblade (68 D2 posts)
-817: First and decisive on ika train. Argument for it is not bad.
-827: Only time I’ll bring up the hypo here – but throughout the Day she displayed an…almost stubborn refusal to understand what it was Titus was proposing, even when explained in the most basic terms. I don’t know what to make of it, but I wondered if it was on purpose – some of Titus’ comments indicate that she thought it was, and being sisters, that’s definitely something to remember.
-910: Pushed for the early hammer of a Town player…early hammers are frowned upon and as scum, she’d know he’d flip Town and it’d make her look bad? In fact, lynch and the NK have her looking very bad. No offense to her, but I don’t see her as the kind to pull off this kind of WIFOM.
-935: fair defense of Rubicon – again, probably unaligned.
-945: At this point, we have to accept basically everything Titus said about ika as truth, and even without it, Titus is right: Math more or less ignores (avoids addressing) anything that doesn’t fit her viewpoint. Falls back to 827, in that she kinda twists things. That could just be her town play – in fact, it was, she ignored some of Rubicon’s questions in WIFOM, and it’s part of why she was lynched.
-1120: It rubs me the wrong way that she’s compliment scum like that.
-1218: This…would be the perfect thing to say as scum that plans to NK Titus. And it doesn’t make sense to say it as Town, because why would she think she’d be killed? She should be thinking she’s prime for mislynching after leading the ika wagon.

--
@Dermon (4 D2 posts)
*Aside from Mother’s day, he was also moving. Might explain the lack of activity?
-961: Pushed Ter on contradictions…honestly one of the few things he’s decisively done.

--
@Atum (28 D2 posts)
-838: Last line sounds…sassy. Mocking even. Maybe like he knows ika’s Town and that he’s going to be mislynched.
-973: Calls Math’s recent play into question but doesn’t follow up on it.
-1188: Holy crap, words cannot describe how much I love this post. Outside the game, I’ve been thinking and hearing the same thing from other newbies. Jesus. Thank you, Atum. Back to scummy analysis…eh, it could technically be a hint to his desire to shoot Titus at Night, I suppose. With ika dead, it doesn’t make sense though.



--
@Snowvon (10 D2 posts)
-First two posts are 100% irrelevenant fluff, at this point of the game.
-956: I’ve gone into detail about the Holy Shitness of this post. -__-
-1173: Ignoring the dream crap, he says Rubicon/Citrus has at least 1 scum (…oddly I kind of agree at this point), yet puts off providing anything to support it. Fantastic. Also, I can’t tell if what he’s saying about Rubicon’s defense of him seems scummy or not. If he is saying it’s scummy, I’d stare incredulously due to that same logic being why he voted for Citrus back in #956.
-1202: This is arguably the only relevant post Snow had in the ENTIRETY of D2 – calling Math out in not even caring about his voting reasons, just wanting an ika lynch.

======

TITUS & IKA

Reading their posts, there’s not much. This is what’s annoying about ika & Titus: They make the game about themselves, and only talk in reference to how the other reacts. So as a result, over half of what they did D2 revolved around that.

That aside, though…

Titus immediately jumped on Rubicon from her first D2 post and never let go. Her second highest is Ter, which I don’t feel at all confident in pursuing.
She also explored Citrus and I, and paired each of us with any of {Mathblade, Dermon, TerRaine}, however it was clear her interest was on Rubicon.
Her last Wall,

Ika’s first vote was on Snow.
FoS was extreme on Citrus for the last part of the day. Somewhat on Rubicon, but mostly Citrus, even though at first he seemed to basically go back and forth between the two.
In #852, He claims “odds are one scum already wagoned me in this in attempt to try to hide themselfs” – if correct, there’s scum in {mathblade, rubicon, atum}.
His wall,

--
I’m not sure why Titus was the target, I mean, she was active, but I’m not seeing anything particularly damning. In fact, I’m pretty sure anyone that knew her would keep her around and feed into her tunnel-vision to keep her completely off the right track, knowing she won’t let up for at least a few Days (i.e. like she was with Riley in B&T, and even me towards the end).
This makes me think possible newbie team (meaning, Lyrium = luck?), as a result.

It also strengthens my Rubicon townread – I generally dismiss fearkills from experienced players and Rubi is probably confident in his ability to stay a step ahead of Titus, or at least not get lynched for a day or so until it doesn’t look as suspicious to NK her.
Possibly clears Mathblade? NKing her only Scumread doesn’t strike me as something she’d do – unless of course a partner taking that into account. Thoughts?

---------- Post automerged at 03:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 AM ----------

On to the D3 posts:

@Mathblade
Why did you keep insisting on Titus/Ika when I pointed out clearly that it was pretty much impossible for them to be a team?

--
@Terraine

Hm. Plus his completely lack of contribution D2.
How do you respond to my points about Mathblade probably being Town given my analysis.
And where’s your vote? You seem pretty secure on who the scumteam is, yet you don’t vote?

Here’s a question: Why take the time to write a note instead of just saying “Titus”? I mean, it would have taken less time.

…you never seem to remember what he’s supposed to be ugly as sin. (Also they’re called rainwalls! =D)
Stepping away from my game persona for one second to say I think you’re doing great so far. ^^

--
@Rubicon

We keep having vastly different opinions in this game, Rubicon. Think it through.

We have two new players – why are you asking for one specifically? o.o

How else have your reads changed if you’re now on Snowvon’s wagon?

--
@Citrus

Why did you expect a kill on Burk when N1’s hit was Lyrium? Null read via inactivity? Why is that enough?
Also, you forgot C) Someone she saw squarely as town, before she could change her mind.
Blab with Rubicon, remember?

--
@Atum

This is not a good thing to admit. With 4 mislynches in Town’s graveyard, why would you just toss a vote without bothering to read everything thoroughly?
And, let’s go with Ter being scum—who’s her partner?

Given that Ter currently has your balls in a vicegrip, I’d like to hear your responses to her.

Atum, you came into toDay with no interest in debating, nor a desire to listen. You came straight for the lynch with a quick vote in your first post on a player whose post you didn’t bother to read. Based on ‘things that jumped out at you’ that you don’t remotely explain.
Almost like you came in expecting an easy lynch after the NK. Which, I suppose, a newbie scum might do.
Tell me why you did that.
Vote: Atum

--
@Snowvon
Snow, you give me headaches. Sigh.

OK, breakdown:

D1, [FONT=&quot]y[/FONT]ou wanted so much not to get lynched, you threw your vote on a player you were townreading.
Townies do not sacrifice players they aren’t scumreading for their own sake unless they have an important role – and you are clearly not the seer.
At the end of D1, you promised a change D2 and a lot of scumhunting.

D2, you actually had less activity. I guess it was mother’s day, but you did basically nothing, and did not deliver on your promises at all. Your reads were vague if there at all, and it honestly seemed like you were trolling (look at my observations).

D3, you seem to be doing better, actually scumhunting, I tihnk, and engaging. It's good, but at this point I'm paranoid, and would rather avoid another mislynch
So, tell me why you’re Town.
Also, do a readwall, like you promised.

--
@Chrome, Bond
[FONT=&quot]Welcome, guys. I assume you’re catching up. Post ASAP, please.

[/FONT]

---------- Post automerged at 03:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 AM ----------

Not too relevant, but Titus and ika had 108 and 104 D2 posts respectively. The only one that compared was Math at 68, meaning we’ve lost the most active players in the game, so we should pick up the slack.
Actually, is that a good reason for scum to hit Titus? Hoping to slow down discussion by killing off the most active player? -- this would be the strategy of a experienced player, though.

Going by Ika and Titus’ reads, their insistence, and my own observations above, I’m more comfortable with the idea that there’s scum in {Rubicon, Citrus}. However, again by the above, I really doubt they’re a team together.

For now, I’m leaning towards Citrus more.

Also, reminder:

Citrus was the most active pusher for Maiden, and despite the order of the final tally, he was the one to initiate the wagon. I already brought up what I thought of his ‘it’s too late to change it’ idea.

And nowI'm going to bed. sorry for the word dump. -__- it's been a long day.

 

Hi, I'm that Delphine chick some of you know from IRC that is replacing in as a favor. My account just now got activated (thanks to Blab.) Uh, I just spent more than 20 minutes writing up a post that...didn't fucking post, so I'm just going to type up as much of it as I remember. I may or may not be awful at mafia in this format but as I understand it, town would've lost a lynch anyway from my slot being modkilled due to the setup not having any kind of protective/etc. roles, so I'll just try to jump in and do my best. I have read the thread through once, which is enough to give me a general sense of what's going on, but not to be able to give non-waffley stances on people. I'd like to start with some initial questions I had.

First things first, I need (want) Atum to put a vote down in his next post. It's been throwing me that his stances are rarely matched with actual votes and, if nothing else, it's anti-town. His general approach to the game feels sound/ok to me on the initial read but his suspicions feel a bit middle of the road to me which makes me less apt to #lazytownread him like I've seen a lot of. I'm also curious about what kind of offsite experience he has - one of his posts implied he has some, and getting an answer to that will give me a better feel for what he's capable of.

Sloth, let's talk about how confident you are in your ability to read TR. Have you played mafia together elsewhere, or a comparable game? In my experience ~elsewhere~ I've found that people who know each other well personally can be very reluctant to wolf-read each other because you don't want them to be wolves. I'm interested in how much you honestly think I should sheep your read on her.

Rubicon, what are your thoughts on the argument that my slot is town due to my potential wolfbuddy not crumbling under the pressure of being ~all alone~? Has that informed who you think is aligned with my slot if it's a wolf?

Can someone with experience with Citrus tell me about whether reactive posts and frequent PSAs are in line with his town meta? My (limited) irc experience with him led me to expect more active scumhunting from him. uhhh I think I had something I meant to ask you but I can't find it in the notes in my QT and I forgot what it was, lmao.

MathBlade
(1) Can you walk me through the evolution in your thought process w/r/t how many wolves there were? Your tone seemed to significantly change towards the subject, and so if you could give me more details about the thought process behind it, I think I could read you better. That development stuck out to me when reading but I've waffled about whether you're more likely wolf or town for it.
(2) Talk to me about your Citrus read.
(3) How come you seem less interested in lurkers this game as I'd expect from your self-metaing? Is your wolfbuddy a lurker?

TR, how would you expect Sloth-wolf to act towards you? Also, since you seem to think that the Titus kill was done to incriminate you, let's talk about who you think has the most to gain from doing that. 1 more - how do you feel about the game so far?

Snowvon, bby, tell me who shot Lyrium. I'm dying to know.

How obvious of a nightkill is Rubicon around here for being a ~good player~? B/c from my perspective there's another nightkill option that I'm surprised hasn't happened yet (and I figure it's because they're scum or their reads are really off.)

!vote mbond99 start start start the paaaarty. Err, I didn't like your predecessor. Let's talk through the game.

p.s. my mentor is ignoring me ;_;

preview edit: haven't read Sloth's wall upon posting this and I don't plan to until tomorrow.

---------- Post automerged at 02:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 AM ----------

i have a semi-serious infection so i probably shouldn't be pulling an all-nighter to finish playing catch-up, so i'll be back when i can.

 

Votecount:

TerRaine (1) – Atum
Rubicon (1) – Citrus
SnowVon (1) – Rubicon
Atum (1) – Sloth
mbond98 (1) – Monochrome


With 9 alive it’s 5 to lynch.


Day ends at this time.

 

Starting with posts in reverse order:

@Delphine/Monochrome:

MathBlade
(1) Can you walk me through the evolution in your thought process w/r/t how many wolves there were? Your tone seemed to significantly change towards the subject, and so if you could give me more details about the thought process behind it, I think I could read you better. That development stuck out to me when reading but I've waffled about whether you're more likely wolf or town for it.
(2) Talk to me about your Citrus read.
(3) How come you seem less interested in lurkers this game as I'd expect from your self-metaing? Is your wolfbuddy a lurker?

[/QUOTE]

RL definitely comes first. That's why I wasn't on last night as I was busy getting my character's foot fixed in Cyberpunk. See you when you can be here.

1) About my evolution on the wolf reading, it was just an honest mistake. Riley's post was buried about how many wolves there were and I missed it and I was having board problems and the quote he put posted late. This meant I potentially created a ton of confusion for scum which was a bad thing. I try to write my responses on instinct and make sure they match up with what I had my eventual response theme (e.g. X is scum). That way my genuine emotion can make things easier for players to tell the authenticity of where I stand. IRC is a lot easier for me to play so I have to try to be transparent here.

2) I'm going to do a read-wall in a couple of hours. Please refer to it for more details.

3) That is my usual "start" play. This is no longer the start of the game and ika was acting so scummy as to override my desire for no lurkers. His gambit when you catch up is very anti-town. He mentioned a few times if someone was defending him it'd be scummy. If someone is so detrimental to town then that can't work. We need scumhunters. With the town split between 5 different people, going with an inactive player may no longer be viable as we have to reach some kind of consensus.

Starting with responses in reverse order.

A couple of reasons. Almost every game I have played with my sister she has been scum. Every game I've played with her she wrote novels in. I thought she was using the "too busy" as an excuse when she had time to write all those posts back and forth. She still didn't provide a decent readwall before death so I'm having a lot of trouble picking up why she believed what she believed as I thought it was a scum redirect.

Unfortunately, my sister told me a lot of stories to try to get me to "like" mafia and almost all of them were her heroic scum conquests. If anything I have a "Sis is scum" mentality and it's hard for me to see her as anything other than scum when she isn't doing her "help help" town self. I'm working to get over that but it takes time.

Lastly, you read her as town during B&T and I swore she was scum. I did a gambit to try to show you that and it didn't work. You also lead a lynch against me when in my opinion I didn't do a scummy thing the other game. :/ I think we just operate on different wavelengths and just can't get them to the same channel. It happens with people, and it'll take time to fix.


@All: I'm going to have to go back through the thread and erase all assumptions and in essence "start over" like a replacement player. This split where there is no wagon at all scares me. I hope to have a big readwall in a couple of hours.

---------- Post automerged at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 ----------

Warning: Big long post

General Thoughts

First about the Titus kill it absolutely HAD to happen. Regardless of what she believed and what her reads are. Anyone that mentions otherwise IMO seems scummy due to redirection and here is why.

Titus was a mod-confirmed townie at the end of day 1. Riley mentioned that the werewolves had prechat. It was literally impossible for Titus to have that as a replacement player. Other players were also complimenting that Titus was a good player in the thread. A modconfirmed Town Titus is a weapon to be feared. The same reason modconfirms Monochrome/Delphine and mbond99. The players they replaced just didn't support having two hours of prechat prior to the game. This means that there has to be two scum in

{TerRaine,Sloth,Citrus,Atum,Rubicon,Snowvon}
Due to the level of play and the strategizing going on this makes sense. The mafia would have to have some brilliant play from both parties to remain undetected for this long. I mean right now they have town splitting their votes between waaaaaaay too many people.

The other problem is that I town-read all of these people, which is probably why I'm still alive even after most everyone suspects I am town and the other reason I'm starting over. The Titus modconfirm then kill puts a monkey wrench in almost all of my reads and my sister was right and I was derping badly.

Still working on PBPA....

---------- Post automerged at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

day 2* her day1**

 

Hey Delphi. Thanks for filling in, and welcome to the game.

I don't mind answering these, but that edit is what you should really be paying attention to when asking your questions: I've already answered all of them in other posts.
No, I haven't played mafia with her before, this is her first game ever.
And yes, I'm pretty confident on my ability. Refer to my analysis of her:

Basically, I'm not people: I'm Sloth. I don't do subjective decisions.
I can see the possibility of her being scum, and I'm always watching, but I'm not placing my bets on it.
As for sheeping, I don't expect it: I expect you to read my case and see if you agree with it.
If you think you can somehow read her better than I can, that's fair. Convince me.

Er, Atum voted literally in his first post toDay. It's on #1269.

Delphi, please catch up soon. Due to your predecesor's issues, you're seen as likely Town by several of us, and you also have the outsider's perspective. Could we get a wall from you soon?
Also, do you have a lot of experience with forum games? I know you're good at IRC, but that's about it.

Feel better!

Some mentors have a hands-off approach. Who's yours, if I may ask?
Also, if your questions won't reveal anything about your role, you can always ask us.

 

Titus agreed to refrain from taking Obs in order to mentor Monochrome.

 

mathblade - uh, before you go completely resetting your reads, you really shouldn't be clearing mb and I on that basis. Both of our predecessors were around w/i the first couple of pages iirc and able to do pregame talk. I'm not following what supposedly different answer the mod would've given, in your eyes, if 1 of the replacements were wolves.

 

Post by Post Analysis
Anyone who is modconfirmed(see earlier) I'm not going to waste my time doing a Post By Post Analysis on.


{TerRaine,Sloth,Citrus,Atum,Rubicon,Snowvon}

TerRaine -- Likely town
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724164#post724164
Admitting her mistakes and making concrete reads throught the game.

Granted I'm not scum and her having me on the scummy list seems like the WRONG read but it is a read and none the less.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724134#post724134
That posts adds on the scummy list a little as it doesn't point out the modconfirmed but it is more of an explanation why she's town and one I'm buying.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/member.php?u=53594 Thanks for not using neon as that shit hurts my eyes...I love rainbows though just can't stare at them too long.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=723373&postcount=1144
Calls out people correctly when they don't respond to her.

Therefore Terraine is likely town.

Sloth -- Likely town

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724229&postcount=1283

Granted I've only seen Sloth where Sloth is town but that's as townie as town comes. Definitive scumhunting and probing and asking questions.

A similar theme exists in his posts (and therefore won't bother to quote them as the latest post is a good example for brevity)

Citrus -- nullread but trending town

The fact I can't figure you out at this point is a major problem to me.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724092#post724092

This seems really scummy to me based upon the fact you had time to determine that Titus was a kill because of mod confirming. No one offered a Titus analysis yet and your two reasons aren't really explained but are the traditional ones. Is this an intentional redirect of why you killed her? Food for thought.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=723490#post723490
This post has a lot of righteous townie anger in it. However it is also a compliment toward scum play.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=723495&postcount=1232
Defense of Titus when her defense of ika was scummy and not posting readwalls like herself or other useful items. But seems to be genuinely helping town to get us to see we were both town.

Atum -- nullread, trending scum

This is also a problem as you used to be one of my top town reads.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724150&postcount=1276
This post while defending mistakes seems really distancing...More methodical and less committed to reading anyone and is more fact based.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=723502#post723502
Again lots of maybes...Most all of your posts are maybe/I thinks...I would like to see you take a definitive stand on something.

Rubicon -- scummy (should have seen it before)

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=724188&postcount=1282
This statement reads true for me which is a problem. This was after the flip and I couldn't find where justify why you ever thought Titus was scum. It is almost like your scum play is to "never lie". You haven't ever said anyone was "scum" but you've called people's play as scum like or you've prefaced it with might be.

The one exception is with Citrus here: https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=723224#post723224

Helping with the ika lynch and then retreating to try to stop town from eliminating an anti town player seems really scummy after agreeing with it. It's not like ika did anything pro town to really opt for that change. You still even suspected ika of a potential scum...It seems very contradictory.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=723307#post723307 This post here where you ask Atum where he is leaning seems townie at first since most people think he is town but could be an attempt to communicate that you wanted Atum to be more definite in his posts. This lends towards a Rubicon/Atum scum team. This falls in line with Atum being a null trending scum read for me.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724161#post724161
I'd also want an answer to the question Snow posted you.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=721661&postcount=483
Almost every active player read Rubicon as town except for Lyrium. She couldn't get a read on Rubicon and she's the one that ends up dead. I think Rubicon got lucky that Lyrium was the seer and he's guiding a Rubicon/Atum scum team.

Between that and my sister's read (even though it doesn't hold as much weight due to the mod confirm) you are my top scum suspect.

Snowvon -- likely town

While having some scummy play overall it seems more because of real life/newness rather than being actual scum.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724161#post724161
In this post here he is calling out Rubicon on his play and has been using the same measures for other players...(Again here only using one post for brevity)

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=724155#post724155

This post here is also filled with righteous townie anger, something I look for in town because it is hard to fake. Rubicon/Atum on the other hand have either shown anger but not at being accused or just really a null flat level read.


Closing thoughts
I'd support either a Rubicon, Atum, or Citrus lynch in that order. But really preferably Rubicon.

Vote Rubicon

 

don't really like sloth 1283 - the address of Atum seems graspy/weaksauce/doesn't sound genuinely suspicious.

once i noticed i had posting privileges i was really eager to put ~something~ out there to give you all an opportunity to read me and so i definitely skimmed the past couple of pgs; explains why i missed the Atum vote.

i feel "like new" to forum mafia - haven't rly played it in five years or so and let's just say i wasn't a frequent nightkill

 

I absolutely should be clearing you on that basis. He phrased it as the wolves had prechat, not the wolf or their replacement. The other players without any activity couldn't have pulled off the amount of strategy here. If he was going to answer that question he couldn't lie about it. I think that confirmation was out of a desire to be an honest mod and because of that IMO you are conf!town. Furthermore you would take the conf! if scum and move on. Lyrium, Sloth, and you also said that's not a good reason to conf! so all the more reason to conf!town you.

---------- Post automerged at 10:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

To clarify Lyrium and Sloth said that for different reasons*

 

...Where's this coming from?
Math, not a single person asked where you were or for an explanation, certainly not Delphine, whom you're replying to, yet this comes across as extremely defensive and excusatory.
Especially given your first post toDay was to explain you would be MIA until today. Why are you so intent on defending yourself?

This is not a bad response, exactly, but it reads like you're answering the wrong question.
Also, ok - what about Maiden on D1, i.e. the "start play"? You didnt' seem to find her as lurker. In fact in #453 you indicated that your vote was mostly following the group.

...Sigh, we'll agree to disagree in that last sentece. I'll just point out that people didn't jump on that wagon out of nowhere.
And ok, point on B&T, however, that was different - and not because of the set-up. In there we were in an overly charged system and at the time nothing could be deemed undeniable.
In this situation, while maybe not undeniable, I gave a pretty solid why on ika/Titus simply not being within the real of possibility. Unless you had a theory that would explain away mine, I'm not sure what you were doing.

...Wait, what?
No, that doesn't Townclear anyone. o.o How does that Townclear anyone?
Yes, Riley said scum got pregame chat at the start of the re-roll (and he said it at the end of D2). At the start.
These other players were replaced in afterwards could simply have just been scum replaced in, any of them (not Titus now that we know she's 100% town), all it meant is that they joined the game too late to get pregame.
(Also, the other two were replaced at Night, and given time to catch up. Night was longer than usual, remember?)

...Mathblade, this is literally every single person in the game that's alive right now and has posted (except Delphi). Like, literally. -__-
Please narrow your field a bit and come back to me.

 

Can you expand some here please?

 

ninjas everywhere.

 

I think the "or their replacement" is implicit and I totally disagree, but I at least get why you think that now. I still want your read on Derron - it's not like it's much to read ;b

---------- Post automerged at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------

uh, which part of that do you want me to expand on?

 

@Delphine/Monochrome:

don't really like sloth 1283 - the address of Atum seems graspy/weaksauce/doesn't sound genuinely suspicious.

Please explain what seems "graspy" or "weaksauce"

@Sloth:

It wasn't a defense of me. It was making Delphine feel welcome.

A lurker wasn't going to happen in Day 1 as much as I like it to. This admittedly was a sheep because a lynch needed to happen for info. It's exactly as you read it.

And I disagreed with your "solid" earlier. I'm not repeating the same things and getting into a vicious loop like I did earlier...That won't help town.

Yes it does. Titus/the others couldn't have had prechat at the start of the game. Their replacements also didn't have time to coordinate anything during the reroll time. They were never "online" during that timespan. I lurked during most of it while doing coding binge for my client's game. It was one of the easier times to get coding done and just check the thread every so often when there's no active game. (Coding binges are FUN!) There was no reason to be invisible during that time at all as no one was posting. So if they did it at all it was on a QT. But I would have expected them to at least log on once to check on the prior thread to make a determination as to who to go after first.

Ninja!! *chops hand*

---------- Post automerged at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

@Delphine: Dermon read who was replaced by mbond to me is town confirmed...But my read is below.

---------
---------

End read. Intentionally blank.

 

MB - what got you to think about clearing the replacements in the first place, out of interest?

Also, Titus told me that because replacements get to read any pregame chat that may have gone on and so no one should be clear for that.

Uh, Sloth's address of Atum in that post reads a lot like his questioning of LochNess back on like page 12 which was a bit of a stretch (specifically "Which, I suppose, a newbie scum might do. Tell me why you did that") which was fine then, not so much after two whole game days. The description of his D2 play seems confirmation biased - when TR is sassy/frustrated, it makes her town, but if Atum does it, he's maybe scum? He says little about Atum D2 and I kind of expect deeper analysis from Sloth based on earlier posts he's made?

Though maybe I'm just surprised that once I come in and start questioning the townreads on Atum there's two walls that are in agreement w that

 

@Delphine: First thanks...

Second can you please pick a different shorthand for mbond? I was called MB in some places and I keep thinking you are asking me stuff when you aren't and have to reread.

Something to think about on the clearing. Still cleared for me right now but I will give it some thought. Sometimes after sleeping on things they make more sense.

I think people are following your Atum read because it makes sense. I had to start mine over with the whole Titus not being scum. My QT is even more hilarious now that I am rereading it now. I think he needs to start being more definite to get out of his scummy read. His fence sitting doesn't work well with me.

 

@Mathblade

I find myself agreeing with several of these arguments.
Main points of contest:
-I see Citrus as higher in my scumdar than Rubicon currently, for reasons going all the way back to Maiden. Rubicon's not exactly a Townread at the moment, but I'm waiting on his answers - I also need to do a dive on him when I have more time.
-Snow is still one of my highest scumreads, again, for many reasons throughout the game. He's getting better, but only after being relentlessly prodded for over 2 Days. I like him unaligned with Rubicon because his exchanges and attacks with him sound natural, rather than staged. (As in, not two scums trying to make themselves unaligned, but possibly one scum coming up for legitimate arguments for the other)

Right now, my team's possibly somewhere in {Citrus/Snow, Citrus/Atum, Snow/Atum}. More on that to follow.

...ok, this is starting to feel like the Hypo situation all over again.
Just going to say this once:
Yes, of course the pregame chat took place in the QT, and given that the non-Titus (who was Town) replacements happened in the middle of the Night, and then we had the Night made longer - so they could catch up and, if scum, discuss with their partner. They're not townfirmed, Mathblade.
So yeah, it's entirely possible one of them is scum. ...Though I gotta say, if we get to post-game and it's revealed they both were, I'm going to laugh.

Look, even if you don't believe that, you lose nothing in keeping an eye on them as well as the rest of us, so please do.

CHOPPAH!
...I don't know why that made me chuckle.

--
@Delphine

I'll address these when he answers. But seriously, think about it - given his posts, my past analysis of him and my own abilities to read people. You should know what I'm doing: It's obviously [REDACTED - think it through].
I will say, though, if you think this is anything at all like the Loch vote, even on the surface, you need to read closer. Think it through.

...Er, just so you know, I don't think you're allowed to tell us what your mentor tells you. Riley?