No, that hint from Michael was pretty solid evidence of Butcher dooming that ship to sink.

 

Nope.jpg

Harry/Molly is still the OTP.

 

My major prediction is that Molly's going to try having Harry live down the street from the Carpenters. *** "It's traditional to have a home of your own if you're going to keep adopting strays."Her family gets protection, Harry is kept off his huge isolated fortress of gloom, and Harry has to be a constant presence in Maggie's life. Molly already furnished a room for him in her apartment, so it wouldn't be out of character, plus it has symmetry with Harry making her live with her family.

As to my thoughts on the naaggloshii: I got the impression that Goodman Grey was a naagloshii, not one of the semi-divine Naagloshii. He didn't have the evil body heat that Harry could sense miles away. As such, what I was more curious about was the nature of the $1 'Rent'…

I think Nicodemus got played, but there has to be something huge he's planning for the Grail, if he's going to sacrifice that much.

The über-Christian themes plus the buck-twenty-dripping-wet Knight ("A Jewish Knight of the Cross?") were annoying. Given that, though, my two cents are that it's more like a series of mantles. Hecate is the Queen(s), the Queen who is is at the level of an Archangel, Mother Winter is Skuld, Hades is guarding Christian weapons, Uriel and Odin are "in similar lines of work", the Gatekeeper says "blood of the prophet"… I have high hopes for an integration of pantheons.

Fridge logic: Uriel's a plot element to get Michael in the game and raise the stakes, Molly's gone to raise the stakes, mpreg to replace Bob (even though it was extremely well done), Butters is part of the series' badass character evolution, …

*** “I could buy the neighborhood if I wanted. There will be someone keeping an eye on my parents’ place, twenty-four seven in case anyone tries the same thing again.” “Unseelie bodyguards.” I grunted. “Not sure they’re going to like that.” “They don’t have to like it,” Molly said. “In fact, they don’t even have to know about it.”
Butcher, Jim (2014-05-27). Skin Game (Dresden Files) (Kindle Locations 7391-7395). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

 

I also wasnt a big fan of the Christian mythology. It wouldnt be so bad if its treated like all the other myths Butcher utilizes, but he insists on writing Michael and Angels as if they are right all the time, because Jesus.

I really wanted Grey to be Loki and his 'rent' was that Vadderung let him out of his prison for a few days to do this thing for him. I got excited when he transformed into the big horse, but oh well. Naagloshii isnt bad either.

 

Look, the thing about Dresden/Molly, especially in these last four books or so, is that it's the epitome of, "two steps forward three steps back". It's kind of a human thing to sorta cycle through the same thoughts and stuff and reach the same conclusion ("Molly's too young" + "Molly's my apprentice" + "Couldn't do that to Michael" + "Yeah no it's not happening" = No go.), but then there's the other factors that are starting to build...

- Changes: Susan points out Molly's hardcore in love with Harry and it's not just a crush.
- GS: Molly deconstructing every argument he has against it in the Denny's, and the entirety of the flashback scene with the Molls naming and, I quote, from Harry: "I'm sorry. That I wasn't here longer. That it couldn't be more than it was." et cetera. False comfort and stuff given the shadow's influence and him just taking what Susan told him and trying to placate her, probably, but still.
- Cold Days: Murphy pointing out the symbolism of the Knight/Lady thing as well as the argument of "Harry and Molly are wizards and will live longer", and Harry not arguing against it, in the end. Just an, "Oh."
- Skin Game: Subconscious points out that it's not a teacher/apprentice thing anymore (And Harry tells her as much later) or an age thing (Hello, late twenties) and that they like each other and clearly there's stuff in common, but since he's phrasing it as, "You should be having sex with her", it's shot down quicker by actual Harry. Michael appearing not to give a shit even if thinks they're banging, too, but that was pretty vastly subtle/undeveloped so who even knows.

Lookit, I've felt an intensity with these two ever since Changes, but I'm also very able to understand two things: I'm biased because I was looking for the intensity in the first place, and that the recursive arguments against (aka the three steps back) will probably always outweigh the ones for. Admittedly, I kinda look at Harry/Karrin happening as a sign that eventually the steps forward sometimes overtake the ones going back (Remember how it seemed that Jim shot down Harry/Karrin way back in Proven Guilty? And then it comes back hardcore for end of Changes, then Cold Days appears to shut it down but simultaneously make it so, only for Skin Game to go all out?), and that it's possible it'll be the same game for Dres/Molls.

I love the potential there for Dres/Molls, not only in a happy ending kinda way, but in the tragic fuckin' epic Greek-esque love story that'll go down. Because she'll slip into the Winter Lady mantle and slip hard. She will be broken and dark and shit. And Harry might love her in the midst of that, or might be responsible for the slip, or think for a while that he can bring her out of it, but the slip's happening. Molly's arc has been too much about her problems with the corruption of power to not have her be the corrupted one, especially as it'd parallel Harry's own corruption, but since he's the main character he won't slip all the way. Molly will be his greatest failure (As it already was, in Ghost Story, but in a different way come apocalyptic trilogy or so).

However, there's also the positive idea that maybe Molls's fear of corruption'll save her, in the end, combined with Dresden getting over himself and admitting that there's something there, but then again that could also just be an option for Butcher to have Molly go mental and try to make him be with her blah blah et cetera. Yeah this is one of those ships where you know there's more options for the author to sink it than to actually do it, and yes it sucks, but if you face reality sooner rather than later, it'll hurt less later.

But for the love of god, I still want it in the future. I really do. Molly's elevated to main character now (Like, it was kinda just Harry and Karrin then Harry and Karrin and Thomas and now it feels definitely like Harry, Karrin, Thomas and Molly, even though Skin Game didn't give us much of the latter two), she's got the connection, there's some chemistry, and the teacher/apprentice aspects are hopefully being shedded... Harry/Karrin's probably going to last long, and I'm cool with it, but dammit do I want somedat Dres/Molls.

Like, damn son that bit in the last chapter when they rock up to visit Marcone and Mab? Give me, like, five books of those two being a power duo. Knight and Lady. Taking names, kickin' ass, being snarky.

/OTP forever.

 

I went into Skin Games thinking they were going to spend 80% of the time in the under world, maybe in the labyrinth. So it took me a long time to gear shift into the slow build up to it, running jobs around Chicago....

That being said, I read books for pleasure and I was never bored or disappointed in the story. Not to say there wasnt bad points, I think Butters was a bit to OTT at times, but I liked what was being done with him, just not quite to that level, I preferd him more in Ghost Story, with the Boblight and walkie talkie, a believeable level for him. Also when butter ran away after being caught and Murphy said some like "What the one palce you'd go to escape these guys, I though "St Marys" or even the castle full of warriors and wards, not the house full of children... cunt.

I called Asher as having a coin from as soon as we saw the whole team. I mean we knew one of them was a sleeper agent, and it wasnt going to be Binder and was 99% sure it wasnt the Church mouse, I didnt think Bigfoot or Grey Could be hosts (so in hindsight I might have considered them but I didn't. So it had to be her. Then when she was immune to fire... Harry should have worked it out.

I would have liked to see Michael have had some issues holding Uriels grace, as it was it just allowed him in the fight with no real down side. I would have liked it to be played more of him toting a Bazooka in a knife fight and being really fucking careful and scared to use it.

Binder was great, wish we had more of him.

And apart from Jedi Knight Butters, I loved the fact that if anything the constant and cringe worthy pop cultural references were much more toned down in this one (unlike that scene in Changes where everyone is a chracter in LOTR). This is a level I can believe and find amusing.

Over all liked it, top 3, Turn Coat, Changes then Skin Game.

 

So.

Lasciel's coin is in Hades' vault, buried under a bunch of slag, right?

I give it 2 years, tops.

 

Fallen. A Denarian is one who carries a silver Denarius that is the prison for a Fallen Angel.

 

Whats more dangerous.

1) Mavra with the Word of Kremmler.

2) Nic with the Holy Grail.

Chances are that those two may end up working together, so the answer may infact be 3.

 

Finished it last night! Pulled an all-nighter to read it in one go, so I may have missed some details, but general thoughts:

1. Wow, Butters was amazingly annoying in this book. From his enormous blunder to the stupid Jedi/Batman stuff to his attitude, I was just generally turned off by him. I understand that he would change during Harry's absence, but did it have to be to such an ass? I can only hope he'll get more bearable off screen as a Knight.

2. I was so stunned at the fact that a sex scene was actually occurring in the book that when the dream reveal hit, I could only laugh...poor Harry. Though the Lasciel/Murphy bit at the end made me erroneously think that Lasciel would somehow get to her.

3. Which leads me to Harry's mpreg baby - something I'm sure Butcher was appropriately gleeful about fitting in. I found it a really interesting resolution for the Parasite, though I was a bit sad since this does mean Lash is dead. Also I guess Harry won't be needing Bob any more? (Although I don't know if spirits of intellect have ages as such? Because if so, his "child" will be too mentally immature to be much useful help, I imagine)

4. Would've liked to see a bit of Thomas in this book. I know that the plot here wasn't overly conducive to his appearance, but I feel like he hasn't been a major player in a while

5. Ditto for Molly. One dream sequence and some scenes at the end didn't seem to do justice to a character who's just underwent a massive power up and role change. Also, did anyone else think their reunion in the dream was a bit underwhelming? I was expecting a bit more angst or at least guilt from Harry about her shift to Winter Lady. They were surprisingly matter-of-fact about the whole thing.

6. I was surprised, after all the endless back-of-forth of the past several books, that we look to be going towards Harry/Karrin after all, but knowing Butcher, this could just be set up for a tremendous and heartbreaking death for her in the coming books - I'm rather pessimistic of her survival chances until the end of the series, unfortunately.

7. In general I appreciated the heist plot, and didn't see the set up with Gray coming. Admirable revenge from Mab and Hades, though I agree with earlier posters that Mab could've been a bit more up front with Harry. I do think that the apocalypse is looking to be more and more Abrahamic in nature, particularly with a new Knight, the Holy Grail, and a massively pissed Nicodemus in the mix. Unsure about Tessa's angle for trying to disrupt the plans - between that and Nicodemus' line about the Enemy I wonder how much the Outsiders were involved here.

Overall, I always enjoy Dresden books, but don't think this is one of my favorites - Butters was just too damn annoying and some parts seemed contrived - but do think that many important plot points were laid, as well as new character development (Harry finally making parental contact with Maggie, acknowledging that Molly isn't his apprentice anymore, seizing the day with Murphy, taking up guardianship of the Sword, etc). 7/10. Also, do we have details yet about Peace Talks?

 

I'm sure Bob didn't pop into existence knowing everything he did.

Probably she has similar ability to Bob, as far as spiritual possession, encyclopedic memory, general powers, etc goes, but lacks the thing that makes Bob most useful to Harry (or anyone, really) which is hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge.

 

She knows everything Harry does, but I'm not 100% if thats because she grew in Harry or because she is made by him. If its the latter, then she might know everything Lash knew... which is... quite a bit. Even if she only picked up 1% of what Lash knew, it is insane, she is older than time itself..

 

This book is in my top five in no particular order. It was just so fucking refreshing to see Harry be clever. Its not often he gets the jump like that on the bad guys.

Pros;
-My Maggie and Harry reunion that I needed like burning.
-Harry reading Nicodemus for points and that one single tear. I ugly laughed.
-Grey turning out to be Team Dresden
-Uriel tagging Michael in
-Nobody turning down that Underworld money
-Harry and Molly facing down Mab and Marcone like let me tell you a thing because OTP
-The whole goddamn revenge plan cooked up by Mab and Marcone. I assumed they forgot they owed Nic payback. Butcher sure didn't.
-The parasite being a child of Lash and Dresden. The fuck. Who saw that coming.
-Reappearance of goatee!Dresden. I missed his come on bro sass. He's not here for dumb Dresden. No one is.
-The hints that Murphy and Dresden are doomed.
-Loved how the Christian artifacts are considered weapons.
-Everything about Hades was A+
-Oh and of course when Michael basically told Harry he was arrogant and to get his shit together. He's needed to hear that from him 3 or 4 books ago.

Cons;
-Butter's getting beside himself
-No Thomas
-That sex scene. No one asked for that.
-Uriel not smiting the hell out of Nic for sassing him
-Something about Mab being in Judge form when Molly and Harry confronted her seemed off. I assumed that was her shit's about to get real mode and nothing really popped off.
-I wish Molly didn't brush off being the Winter Lady like no big deal. But Lea did train her for a reason and clues have been leading up to her being a natural.
-No White Council inside scoop since the Red Court went bye. But that's coming next book.
-I see the Formor are still a thing. Oh okay.

All in all I liked this book better than Cold Days and Ghost Story. Read it in six hours and wasn't even mad at the ending like I have been the last three books.

 

I suppose we'll have to amuse ourselves with fanfics until the OTP comes true.

 

No. Nicodemus knew about the other relics. Infact, it was very strongly implied that what Nicodemus was truly after was the knife. And he knew it was there.

See for example the scene where Harry hides the knife in his sleeve, and when his staff is thrown at him and he grabs it, the knife hits the cast and produces a sound. Nicodemus instantly notices, and then a short time later orders Harry to hand over the knife. Then there is the scene where Harry and Kringle talk about how what Nicodemus is going to give as his real goal (he says he is after the Grail) won't be his real goal. Or the final scene where Michael worries about Nicodemus having the Grail, and Harry consoles Michael by saying that Nicodemus really wanted the knife and that the Grail is a lesser weapon.

Nicodemus got the Grail, but it was a consolation price. The knife (spearhead?) was what he truly wanted, and what Deidre died for. Nicodemus failed to get that, making his defeat even worse. He sacrificed his child and most trusted lieutenant, and in the end Harry escaped with the true object he killed Deidre for.

I would be surprised if this does not happen. There were a LOT of clues to suggest Harry would be returning to Chigaco.

- Michael tells Harry that its psychic torture for Thomas, Molly(possible not anymore) or Murphy to visit him on the island due to lacking the protection against the "aura" of the prisoners Harry gets as a Warden. Would Harry inflict that pain on Thomas and others, now that he knows the pain is there?

- Butters complains about how he thought things would improve with Harry there to fight and scare the Fomor off after he returned, only to have Harry leave Chigaco unprotected for a year. Now that the "Parasite" (wonder what name she is going to get) is no longer a problem, there is no issue with Harry leaving the island. Heck, I seem to recall he even mentions to one of the Fomor at one one that "I am back!".

- The talks between Murphy and her suggesting Harry should return.

- Harrys promises to Maggie to try be a father, hardly possible if he spends all the time on the island. Not to mention that now that Nicodemus knows about Maggie, it would make sense for Harry to want to be near incase he comes back. Unseelie guards are great and all, but could anyone Molly has the authority to command really stop Nicodemus? Slow him sure, but stop him?

- Harrys constant complaints that the island lacks the proper tools and resources to create things like shield bracelets or force rings and other gadgets.

A few others I might have missed. I would be really surprised if Harry does not use the diamonds (or just ask Molly for help) to buy a house nearby.

An interesting thought is that if true, while she might know less than Bob does, as a child of Lash(former Lasciel), she might know more about one thing atleast. Soulfire. I mean Lasciel was a former angel and angels were confirmed to use soulfire. In Cold Days, there was that scene with Mother Winter where Harry uses soulfire and thinks to himself that Bob does not really understand how that power works, and then proceeds to slap MW away with ease. A child of Lash might be able to teach Harry about this one area in a way Bob never could.

It was actually a bit disappointing that nothing came out of that particular realisation (MW one). Soulfire in this book was again reduced to basically being hellfire with a different name. Harry uses it for a minor powerboost to his spells and nothing more.

I figure the one being judged was Nicodemus, and since this was essentially the aftermath meeting after she screwed him over, the Judge form was essentially her way of saying "Nicodemus judged, punishment delivered".

This actually makes sense. Harry has been unable to contact Molly, and from what we know so far, the best way to let the mantle turn a person into something else is to make them think there is no choice. So Mab and Lea deceiving Molly into believing that it really is no big deal makes a lot of sense. Heck, might well be a second motive for Mab separating Harry and Molly. Mab did not want Harry to tell Molly about the mantle, and what Harry has learned about how the mantles work from Bob, Uriel and Mother Summer.

Yeah. Gatekeeper was supposed to bring news that Harry is alive a year ago. Why has there been no contact from Eb for example.

 

I've been reading the mutliude of posts on Jims main forum...

I'm sorry but how fucking stupid are people?

The five objects:

1) Cup = Holy Grail
2) Cloth = Shroud (before they confirmed this I thought it might be the cloth Jesus used to wipe his face with that had an inprint of his face on it, pretty much the same deal)
3) Circle of thorns = Crown of throns forced on Jesus
4) Wood Slate = The sign hung on the cross (Jesus of Nazerus, King of the Jews) Seriously, the amount of questions on twitter and the forum... I'm not especially religious, but damn, isnt that just fucking obvious?
5) Knife = Okay this one might be iffy, but I was pretty sure it was the end of the spear of destiny used to stab and finish of Jesus on the Cross. Some speculate it could be Modkins Bodkin... but given the other 4 are from the Crucifixion story, and that Harry has held that knife and didnt comment on the raw power he felt from these 5, makes me pretty damn sure it is the spear head.

Granted, it is only 100% said that the cup is the Holy Grail, but the other (apart from maybe the knife) were instantly obvious.

 

Harry speculated on the cloth being the true Shroud and all the items had a similar feel to them, iirc. It makes sense that they're all that way because of their association with Christ.

 

Also, in the show down with Nic at the Carpenters, after Murphy broke the sword, Nic mentions he heard stories of their adventures at Chitz from the survivors...? What? He even said their were quite a few and that is mainly due to her actions...

Is he referring to some RC survivors? Or of the mortals they had their?

If the former, fuck, is the latter, no huge deal I guess.

 

There were no red court survivors, but the mortals they'd brought in as snacks were set free near the end of the battle. They're the reason the younger half-vampires died too.

 

Harry was never going to leave Chicago for long, but he does like his brooding. I meant Molly was going to make Harry live across the street from the Carpenters to force him to be closer to Maggie and other people: