Actually, point. Murphy has only ever held Fidelacchius. Susan got hold of Amoracchius at Chitzen Itza.

 

Seems like you're right.

Although it raises an interesting question of distinction, especially considering the theme of Nicodemus destroying information about the swords. Have they managed to establish that Amoracchius has never been reworked, or have they never managed to establish that it's been reworked? Slight difference there, but somewhat important given the sword's history.

 

She's held it during Cold Days, but never wielded it. As for the theory, I don't think so. My guess is that none of those people will be wielding the swords at that time.

If we are to make bets, I'd be up for that ^^

 

I'm fairly confident the British guy in Demonreach is actually King Arthur, who in Dresden lore is likely the very first wielder of Amoracchius. It meshes pretty much perfectly with Arthurian lore, especially when viewed through Butcher's interpretation of ancient stories, what with the isolation on a forbidden island waiting for the right time to make his return. The comment of being "exactly where [he needs] to be" jives very well with the whole Once-And-Future-King bit that's fairly central to the Arthur mythos.

My bet is that he's there just waiting for the BAT before he comes back out and wrecks some shit.

 

That's interesting. According to Word of God in the Jim thread, the nail from Amoracchius has been moved many times, taking bits and pieces of the metal from the swords that carried it with it, and Fidelacchius has been reworked at least once, because the original Grass Cutting Sword wasn't actually a katana, but a jian. Only Esperacchius is completely original. It's never been reworked at all.

I interpreted that to mean, if we assume the swords have been broken in the past, that Amoracchius has been broken many times, Fidelacchius has been broken once or twice, and Esperacchius has never been broken. There's a symbolism there as well: Love has been broken many times, and Faith has been broken on rare occasion, but Hope has never been tarnished.

However, that is operating under the assumption that the swords have been broken at all prior to this. We don't actually know that. That being said, I strongly suspect Nicodemus periodically wiping out all knowledge of the conflicts between the Knights of the Cross and the Denarian Order is something he does as much to hide from the Knights what they are truly capable of as it is to hide his own actions. Specifically, I think he knows that the swords can come back, and that he was, at least in part, endeavoring to hide that fact.

It sounds like his kind of game: foster ignorance in his opponents and use it to his advantage. The only people who would know better are the Archangels, and their hands would be tied in that regard. Ignorance of something, even ignorance of something as relevant as the very swords they are wielding, would be a mortal affair, it's not the Fallen overstepping their bounds. Thus, there's nothing they could do about it.

My sleep deprived brain was under the impression that Murphy used Amoracchius during Chitzen Itza.

If I was wrong about that, I apologize.

I'd still say the thematic angle holds, though. In fact, it might even be stronger. A lot of the power Murphy showed that night could be put down to being involuntarily possessed by Michael the Archangel, so you could argue against her having an affinity for the sword she wielded.

However, if she's never touched it before, then the same argument for Harry would hold for her as well. She's a Knight Incumbent, but the Sword of Faith was never the one she was truly meant to carry.

That's definitely also a strong possibility. I like that a lot more than the Merlin theory.


Also, Aekiel has the right of it. My call as it stands right now is that we will only see a full roster of three Knights of the Cross once the Apocalypse Trilogy starts, and that those Knights will be Harry, wielder of Esperacchius, Murphy, wielder of Amoracchius, and Butters, wielder of Fidelacchius.

 

Prediction noted. See you in 5 years.

 

Five years? You're optimistic as shit. We've still got at least five more books to go before we even have a possibility of reaching the Apocalypse Trilogy, and Jim said he wanted to do more if he could. And we aren't doing a book a year anymore. He's been going slower and slower as time goes on, with the gap between Cold Days and Skin Game being almost two years. I'd say we've got at least eight more to go minimum, unless he picks up the pace considerably.

 

Doesn't bother me any since we'll be getting the Cinder Spires alternating with a new Dresden book. Also, I'd rather he took his time and pumped out quality stories every couple/few years than rush it and give us lesser quality stuff every year.

 

I'm not complaining about his speed. I'd also prefer he took his time and alternated between writing Dresden Files and other series.

I'm just saying that five years is an unrealistically generous timeline.

Even if he alternates series and manages to get one and a half books out a year, we're still looking at at least eight-ish years. And that's the bare minimum. Again, Jim has said he has stuff he knows he needs to put in, and stuff he wants to put in, and then stuff he could put in if he was so inclined. We'll probably get more than five books.

 

You know, I did in fact consider that our timeline for "reach final trilogy" should be revised upward... but I thought my intent would be clear and nobody would be pedantic enough to make a big deal out of it.

Clearly I have not learned the art of proper pessimism.

Also I can't believe that I wasted my 3000th post on this shit.

 

From what I can remember she's only been the keeper of Amoracchius, and hasn't actually used it in battle. Sue used it in Changes. Michael used it in Skin Game. It's now on the shelf.

As far as the destruction of the sword (in the process of remaking it), I was never under the impression it broke from love, but because the Sword of Faith was used in a way that broke faith. Karen was placed in a situation that forced her to have faith (the surrendering of the coin and noose- have faith that Nicodemus would be taken care of, have faith that Dresden will survive).

It's true Nicodemus says she took up the sword in love. I just think that's not the reason it was broken. I think it set up the situation that could cause the break, with the Sword of Faith being used in a faithless way, and I like the symmetry, but I'm not convinced.

EDIT: Wow. Ok, note to self: when you open a thread to review what you missed since last logging on, be aware that there may be multiple pages where what you were posting has already been mentioned. Several times.

 

Pretty sure Sue is unable to wield a sword.

 

How awesome would it be if she could though...

 

Every single one of her many, many teeth are longer than swords.

 

I suppose it'd be a bit cliché if Faith actually carried the sword of faith in the end. That said, I do wonder what her role is going to be.

Paladin!Sue ftw!

 

Pessimism presumes the worst possible outcome. I'm not sure how you would interpret Jim taking his time writing the books to make sure they're up to standard as being bad, unless you're an impatient child or something.

Irrelevant. Harry's going to bring her back with Soulfire when he does it again. It's going to be a +12 Epic Undead Dinosaur with the Angelic template. The Sword hardly serves a purpose at that point.

 

He kinda had a point about your comment being pointless. ^^

I do wonder how Soulfire interacts with Necromancy. I'm thinking, not all that well.

Valid point, Ched. I think Butters is going to be doing some important stuff the next few books, but I'd really not want to see him on the BAMF level that Michael was at in previous books. Butters, to me, is about that even the little guy can be the hero. It's not all about power, it's about having the balls to do something when something needs to be done.

Speaking of epic mounts... Wolf cavalry knight of the cross. xD

Michael's got a lot of kids, some of whom have been involved in the fight. Perhaps one of them.

 

Yeah, but what if her teeth were actually Swords of the Cross? Let that one sizzle.