She's all about taking...

<puts on shades>

... a bite out of evil.

 

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

 

Speaking of Sue. What do you think the Dinosaur Cowgirl thing in Skin Game was about? Is Maggie being prepared already to take the reins of Sue in a future battle? ^^

 

Molly has been babysitting her and she knows her father fights monsters. Of course someone told her about Sue. It's probably one of her bed time stories.

 

I honestly think that's it. Probably Molly. I mean, she prolly told it like a bed-time story, but it almost sounds likely.

 

I don't know why but this made me break out in a wide grin.

 

She's got a lot to live up to.

 

Maggie shouldn't be someone who prominently figures into the plot at all. Magic goes through the female line, not the male, so she shouldn't be magical in the same sense that Harry is, and if she hasn't recoiled from the burning light of the sun or otherwise been harmed by the house she's currently living in, it's probably safe to say she didn't get anything special from the fact that her mother was in the process of turning when she was conceived and born.

So Maggie should be a completely normal. No more magic than someone like Murphy, no more inherently supernatural than a random person off the street.

And Harry put his foot down on Molly participating in the local escapades on the grounds that she was neither old enough nor good enough. What makes you think he's going to involve his own completely mundane underage daughter? He'd ship her off to an Italian nunnery in a box before he let her get dragged into the bullshit he gets mixed up in.

Take a wild fucking guess what would happen if somebody like Marcone or Mab tried to involve Maggie. He'd gift Mab her handmaiden's head in a box, and he'd send Marcone a picture of an empty hospital bed surrounded by years of flowers and teddy bears.

Maggie doesn't exist to "be one of the boys." She is not part of "the crew." She is Harry's tether to normalcy and humanity, now that he's in a dark and monstrous place. Through her effect on Harry, she is the part of the equation that is going to flummox the Outsiders, the variable that Mab won't account for. Like Michael said, it's not what's going to happen if Harry becomes one of the monsters. It's what's going to happen when he doesn't. I strongly suspect Maggie will be a big part of that.

Unless the next few books somehow includes a timeskip of at least a decade each, which I highly doubt, I can't see how we would be seeing Maggie contributing directly and overtly to 'the fight' at all.

 

Even if she had gotten something from her mother, the curse would've taken care of it. As for her talent... Don't forget that Ebenezar had magic and whoever he had Margaret with did not.

I'm not sure what role Maggie has. As you said, I don't see Dresden letting her join the fight... But I think she'll have some part to play other than serving as motivation for Dresden.

 

Just to look at it from a different PoV Raine, when the fuck did anything Dresden wants happen?

He'll hate it, but Maggie will have more roles to play in the upcoming books. At the very least she'll be roasting some marshmallows with her dad in the BAT.

 

Well there was that time he wanted to find Jennifer Stanton's and Tommy Tom's killer and bring them to justice for it. And there was the time he wanted to stop the Darkhallow. And there was the time he was trying to help find the person who killed the Summer Knight. And there was the time he was going to help break into a vault and betray the people who hired him because seriously, fuck those guys. And there was that one time where there was a traitor in the White Council, and he had to figure out who it was without forcing the whole organization to descend into civil war before the White Council made a colossal miscarriage of justice. And there was that one time where some guy whose name I forget kidnapped his daughter. I'm pretty sure something really bad happened to him and the people who worked for him, but gosh darn it, it's just slipped my memory.

Pedantic "oh, but when have things ever gone according to plan" arguments don't change the fact that you're ignoring my point. Nobody is going to let an eight year old girl fight the forces of Eldritch Oblivion, because if she did, she would die. This isn't fucking Sailor Moon, and she's at least twenty years away from contributing anything besides moral support. MAYBE she'll get to do something cool in the Apocalypse Trilogy, but honestly, I'm not even sure of that.

One of the great flaws of the White Council is that it has forgotten what it means to be a John Doe on the street. Maggie is a perspective that can give Harry the insight and clarity that the White Council has arguably lacked for centuries.

Involving her directly in any meaningful way would simply come across as being contrived. It would be jumping the shark. She's an eight year old girl. She's not going to help kick ass. The best thing that could be said of her is that she's a potential plot device and kidnapping target. And that's arguably been done before. She's not going to strap on a pair of combat boots and ride a fucking T-Rex, what the fuck.

 

She's 8 years old now, but there's around 10 books left in the series. Which is 8-10 years if the timeline remains similar. (The big apocalyptic trilogy probably won't be covered over 3 years, but it might be) That mean's she'll be between 16 and 18 by the end of the series. Harry won't be any less protective, but she'll be a lot more 'independent' I'd expect. It's in her blood after all.

Anyway, she'll have a part to play at some point. Though I never said it was going to be a voluntary part. I mean, the fucking apocalypse is going to happen at the end of the series, that hardly seems like something you can just sit out.

Also, I think you misunderstood my first post. I didn't actually realize your initial rant was directed at my quip "She's got a lot to live up to" until I read back over both our posts.

I meant that in general, not specifically next book. Not even in the series itself actually, though as I said above she will probably play a part.

I'm not sure why you assumed I meant she was going to go out fighting monsters next book, because that's clearly idiotic. In fact, I specifically mentioned the apocalyptic trilogy in my post.

 

Citation needed. Jim said there's about four to five left before the Apocalypse starts, and those will all presumably be back-to-back direct sequels to each other, so no timeline expansion will really happen.

Why? Because it serves your point for her to 'obviously' have some part to play?

There's a difference between motivating everybody else by getting kidnapped and riding a dinosaur down Main Street, and I'm not going to let you pretend you can split hairs over it.

 

I do recall Butcher mentioning that while the original plan was for 20 case books followed by apocalyptic trilogy, he is a bit late from his original plans and that there would be 21 case books. That was also some years ago so it might be 22 case books + 3 trilogy books these days.

But yeah, the idea that Maggie would ride the real Sue is silly. Or rather, the idea that Maggie would both manifest magic (which is possible sure) and become skilled enough to perform high-level necromancy as a teenager is whats silly.

A dinosaur riding scene is theoretically possible however in the sense that there might be a scene where Maggie is kidnapped or somesuch and after rescuing her, Harry animates Sue, puts Maggie on top said dinosaur and then sends the dinosaur away to make sure she is safe.

We know that its possible for a skilled necromancer to remotely control zombies. Harry lacked the skills to do that in book 7 and had to maintain physical contact to control Sue, but since then we had repeated mentions of how Harry has a natural aptitude for necromancy. For example, in Ghost Story corpsetaker mentions how Harry is a natural in darker arts and how Kemmler would have snatched a necromantic prodigy like Harry as his apprentice in an instant.

So a scene near the end, where a FAR more experienced Harry brings Sue back and does control it remotely, while Maggie is riding the dinosaur to safety is actually possible. And it would be very Harry to reanimate a huge dinosaur just to make sure his daughter would have the best protection posible in a combat situation. An older Harry with personal experience being "dead" might not even need a leyline and/or Halloween to repeat the feat.

Though ofcourse in such a case it would be Harrys magic which would have brought Sue back and Harrys will that would be in control of the dinosaur, while Maggie is just sitting on the dinosaur and doing nothing except enjoying the ride.

 

Pretty sure you're right on this one. Now that I think about it I remember him saying something about 20 case books too. But was years ago and Datakim might be right about him being behind too.

No, because I think it'd be a pretty fucking weak end to the general 'daughter' storyline if she just disappears into the background now. If Jim had planned for her part in this story to be over, wouldn't it of been easier to just have her disappear like Harry wanted her too at the end of Changes?

Also, even if there are only 5 more case books, 5 years is still a long period of time. 25% of the whole series in fact. Or, if you think about it, Maggie was only introduced 4 books ago and nothing Jim has said/written indicates that she'll just fade into the background now.

Let me turn it back on you, why are you so determined that she will have no part to play in the story anymore?

Not sure what your whole emphasized dinosaur comment is about, I had no part in that discussion. As I've made clear in my previous posts, all I'm trying to say is that Maggie will play an important role in the books in the future.

And you appear to be taking it as a personal affront.

 

I think Raine is arguing against Maggie playing a 'hero' type role, rather than being completely bussed.

 

You do realize we're mostly joking around about her riding the real Sue, yeah?

Seriously, Raine. Chill. I do think Maggie is going to play some role, sooner or later. Especially now that Nicodemus knows she exists. I wonder whatever happens with the coin of the fallen Deirdre had with her. Would the angels guarding the house be able to spot it if one of the goons storming the place were to drop it there?

I think they would, but if not... That'd be something Nic might do.

 

Tbh I wouldn't mind if Maggie just vanished off into the sunset for safety. Less shit for Harry to have to deal with.

 

Do we believe that Nic managed to grab the lost coins from the vault before he fled, or were they actually left in the underworld? IN his shadow form, he potentially could have grabbed the coins through the defences, but it would be very tricky.
I am betting thew newest dresden girls, know alot about denarians. SO next encouunter will go different.

 

Hello guys!!


First of all, i want to say that this book has disappointed me. I was expecting something far better after the incredible Cold Days (best book of the series for me). My reasons in this, which I hope you could explain, are this:


1.- The book is too focused in the problems of Harry with the Winter Knight thing. I mean, in the last two books the author explain that it's possible to mantain one's will against the mantle. In fact, the speech at the end of Ghost Story to Mab implies that he will not change (even Uriel say so in those 7 words). So why all that crying and winning now? In fact at the end of Cold Days he even threat Mab that if she changes him, he will imprison her in the island.


2.- There are inconsistencies. I mean, if the "parasite" is not really a parasite, why did Demonreach say so? I understand Mab, because she want to trick him, but why does Demonreach say so in Cold Days? He says that it was a part of a bargain with the "parasite" not to tell Harry what it was, but knowing that it was no parasite in the first place, that doesn't make any sense!!!! I hate that, it almost seem like the author didn't remember what he wrote on the last book.


3.- I don't know if you remeber, but the last time Nickodemus appeared, it was on the island and in that part of the series it said that Nick and his wife Tessa were enemys!!! I mean at the end, in the boat, Nick said to Dresden that she (and the other denarians in her command) has betrayed him and joined the Enemy (with the attacfk on Artis Tor and all that). And he wanted Dresden because he could not trust them anymore. But in this appear like they have made peace? I mean in the end he is together with his wife attacking, and that doesn't track.


4.- All the thing with the "parasite" is a shit. I was thinking it was something Lea put in his head when he run from his bargain with her, in the times with susan. But this...totally lost. And Butters and his light saber... it's just too much, lost realism.


5.- I saw in others post that Maggie has 8 years...it's incorrect. She had 8 years when Harry rescued her in Chichen Itzá. Since then has passed more than 2 years, so she is 10 by now. And she can have magic. In fact i don't understand the "mother with magic" thing, because Thomas is Harry's brother...and he has no magic so...why? Vampire thing? And why the others Carpenters have no magic? After all, they are Molly's brothers and sisters, so why?


I like all the books in the series, and i like this one too, but I can't let those things aside. Seems like he don't remember what he wrote in previous books.
I was hoping to see Harry appear alive in Eddimburg, with the council afraid of "resurrected" Harry the Inmortal xD. I hope that still happens, when he goes to inform of the dead of Hannah Ascher (after all she was a warlock, with a price on her head). And now that he has money (diamonds are money!!) he can make new gear and buy a place for himself. I was hoping to see that when he create new magical tools he would use soul fire (its said that soul fire is good for creation) and that could make him even stronger, but it seems not ( the staff didn't seems to have some link soul of something to make it even stronger).