Deathly Hallows. The very moment that Voldemort takes control of the Ministry, Death Eaters are able to penetrate the Burrow's extensive defences.

 

You know how in a democracy, the power comes from the people? Maybe the ministry has something like that set up, but with magic.
Either that or the DOM is just full of awesome goodies, and once Voldemort took over the ministry, he had easy access to them. This seems more likely.

 

I don't know. I always took the destruction of the Burrow's wards as an event that was planned far in advance. There were a lot of people at the wedding, and there had to be some sort of invite, right? Word could have easily gotten around, especially since Percy 'Weatherby' had been informed that his brother was getting married. Didn't Mrs. Weasley cry because he refused to come? He was still in the Ministry's pocket until it fell, from what I could gather.

Of course Death Eaters would expect Harry Potter to attend a Weasley wedding. Honestly, I thought Voldemort planned the take down of the Ministry alongside the execution of the Chosen One. Two blows in one. Moral would be shot if their only hope fell just as easily as the government.

And I think the idea of a 'magically binding contract' is a bit overdone. All we know is that Crouch knew the fine details of the rules for the Triwizard Tournament, not that the Goblet of Fire would gobble Harry up if he refused to participate.

He says the rules bind him, not the Goblet, and not magic. Sounds to me like the Tournament had rules set by some committee.

And, really, he was under the Imperius Curse. He could have easily been instructed to force Harry into a corner with the rules. Maybe he could have been more flexible with it if he was in the right mind. But probably not because, well, he's Crouch.

I don't think the Ministry (or the Minister, since the position seems to hold the shots) is magically absolute by simple order. If there was some underlying almighty power that came with the job, then Voldemort wouldn't have made a puppet out of Thickness, he would have taken the title of Minister for himself. And the Ministry would have never lost control of the Dementors.

TL;DR: I don't think so. But I'm pretty rusty on canon, so there's a strong chance I'm wrong.

 

Sorry, you are wrong. Stupid as it is, "binding magical contract" is canon.
"The placing of your name in the goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract."
Harry isn't actually subject to the contract, and neither is fake Moody, because Moody didn't put his own name in. But, for some reason Dumbledore doesn't believe Harry, and forces him to compete anyway.

 

Maybe judges also were part of this magical contract? And therefore they were unable to avoid forcing Harry to compete?

 

Why wouldn't Harry be subject to the contract?

"The placing of your name in the goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract."

Harry's name was placed in the goblet > Harry is subject to binding, magical contract. It doesn't say that Harry had to put the name in himself. Or am I missing something?

 

"The placing of your name in the goblet."
That is, you have to place your own name in the goblet. Otherwise it would be stupid, and anyone could put anyone into a binding magical contract.
Harry didn't place his own name in. Neither did Moody. Ergo, neither should be subject to any sort of binding magical contract. However, everyone thinks Harry did put his name in, and assume he is lying.

 

Well, damn. And here I thought that was just fanon bull. I completely forgot Dumbledore said that.

I suppose that raises the question of the exact circumstances of a magically binding contract. I think for specific events or actions, people have to willingly sign into an agreement that they will then be compelled to fulfill in some fashion. So when Dumbledore says, "The placing of your name in the goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract," he really means 'your' name. Not the name of some kid you want to murder or the name of the rival you want to see get pummeled. Someone else can't decide that for you. That's what a contract is.

(Sorry, esran, I didn't know you ninja'd me there)

Hm. I wonder.

If the Goblet of Fire can assess the worthiness or the abilities of a person based off a little slip of paper, but it can't tell if the given name is wrong, then maybe it works like normal signatures. Like, I can draw a star for my signature, and it's completely legal.

Since Barty Crouch Jr. wrote out 'Harry Potter' and was picked, he was bound regardless of whether it said his true name. So he fulfilled his responsibility 'through' Harry. He suggested Harry fly for the first task. For the second, he gave Cedric the means to decipher the clue, ultimately giving Harry the clue, and then the means to breathe underwater from the book he gave Neville and the intervention of Dobby (and wasn't he was one that pulled Harry out of the lake? So he 'saved' his hostage). Then, during the final task, he took out a lot of the obstacles that were in Harry's way. Crouch was involved in the tasks. He just used Harry as a tool. The rules the judges set up were arbitrary, like how you can only enter the first task with your wand. The Goblet of Fire—or the whatever it is that does the binding—doesn't care if you break the 'rules' as long as the contract is heeded. As told by Dumbledore, the only thing required is participation:

Of course, this is speculation. Maybe JKR actually explained it in an interview. Or on Pottermore.

And while it may be stupid that Dumbledore let Harry compete even if he didn't have to, he let Harry face Voldemort when he was eleven because he wanted the kid to learn for himself. Harry said something to that effect at the end of Philosopher's Stone. Or maybe Dumbledore figured that if Harry wasn't lying, the person that put his name in would eventually be outed exactly because of the nature of the magical contract. He probably wasn't expecting them to use Harry as the tool (if we go by my theory).

That said, I still don't think the Ministry has some supreme authority over magic within their jurisdiction. At least not by way of magical contract. The Ministry wouldn't be like that because not every employee is voted in, and we're not sure if the Minister is even voted in, are we? If it worked like that, with voting for someone being an 'agreement,' then only the people who voted for the winner would be bound to that magical authority.

Unless it's like the unsaid social contract: you live in the Wizarding World, then you abide by the rules. The Ministry provides safety against discovery, and you give up your right to tell the world you're magical. And it would be enforced, somehow. Maybe that's the origin of the trace, for children who don't know better. Blah. Probably wrong. I just pulled that out of my ass.

And that doesn't explain why the Ministry would be able to break down heavy wards on command, so I'll stick with what I said before about that particular.

 

I reread the scene and still don't agree with your interpretation. There are a few hints indicating that it doesn't matter who put the name into the goblet.

1) The way JKR worded it. "The placing of your name..." instead of "You placing your name..." Her wording indicates that it doesn't matter who placed the name in the goblet, only that it was placed.

2) ' "Did you ask an older student to put it into the Goblet of Fire for you?" said Professor Dumbledore, ignoring Snape.' In the ensuing conversation this is considered a possibility.

3) "We must follow the rules, and the rules state clearly that those people whose names come out of the Goblet of Fire are bound to compete in the tournament." (Crouch)
Again: "people whose names come out" not something like "people who enter their names and are chosen"

4) "It's very simple, Karkaroff. Someone put Potter's name in that goblet knowing he'd have to compete if it came out." (Moody) Nobody disagrees and tells him that it only works if Harry put his name in himself.

5) During the conversation Harry repeatedly says that he didn't put his name in. Karkaroff and Madame Maxime don't want Harry to compete because it gives Hogwarts an unfair advantage. If he really didn't have to compete in case somebody else put his name in the goblet, then they would have pointed that out.

 

Any world in which a binding contract can be entered into without the bindee's consent is a world crying out for an incredibly violent revolution. That part of GoF never sat at all right with me. Either Harry should have just moonwalked away from the first task and let the complete lack of any sort of magical punishment prove his innocence, or there's some seriously dystopian shit at play that I doubt JKR intended.

Personally, I think it's JKR not thinking the implications through for the umpteenth time, but it's tricky to work around in fanfiction because there's no way for Harry to be strongarmed into the tournament without Harry being a goddamn idiot and endangering his life for no reason, or the writer having to deal with said dystopian shit.

 

I thought that it was a matter of signing the parchment willingly... referring to the essays that I'm sure Harry turned in with his name on it. They even asked (if I recall correctly) if Harry had someone else enter his name in the Goblet of Fire and he denied it.

Harry had to have signed his name somewhere in the school.

Harry could have been writing "Your Dead Mum" to sign his essays, but he'd still have been forced to compete since it was him who signed it, not Dumbledore's mother, nor the Goblet's creator.

I also think that it is not the person who entered it but rather the person who signed it that gets judged.

 

I think it's just another case of Rowling not thinking her ideas through to their logical end, or simply ignoring the implications because they don't fit into the story she was trying to tell. It seems pretty clear to me that the posters on DLP care far more about consistency than Rowling did when it comes to the world she created for Harry Potter.

 

Does Canon say anything about Quirrel as a teacher? While we know all too well what all the DADA teachers were like (including Carrow, via Neville), the Books never really talked much about him actually teaching.

 

Marauders:

This is close to a pet-peeve of mine, but I'm putting it here because I don't have the books handy to check on the facts. So, is there a place in the books where the so-called "Marauders" are actually called "Marauders"?

We have the Marauders's map, but that doesn't equate to the four of them actually titling themselves Marauders. I always that that was just the name for the map.

 

I remember reading a fanfic where the goblet was originally a device used to enslave people in the distant past. The idea was that the terms of the enslavement were placed in the goblet (i.e. you're a slave for x number of years to pay off the debt, things you're not allowed to be forced to do if any etc) and then your name along with any other slaves would go in. Because we're talking about slavery here the cup was designed so that other people could enter people's names.

Fast forward to the 1200s and the TWT needed something to bind people to the tournament. Whoever started it came across the goblet slapped some more charms on it for the tournament and viola, we've got a device that selects people for life or death scenarios.

It also closes up pesky plotholes created by 'magical contacts' that strip people of magic and life.

---------- Post automerged at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------

I think Fred and George called them that.

According to the HP wiki though the 'Marauders' themselves never refereed to themselves as such.

 

Idea worthy of a crack oneshot - a time traveler Harry Potter always signs his name wrong everywhere (Harry Plotter, for example), and when the fourth year comes, he isn't competing, because Crouch cannot find a single piece with his proper name (by his own hand) to put into the Goblet.

 

"Potter!" barked out 'Professor Moody' at the end of the lesson. "Stay behind."

Several people gave Harry curious glances as they shuffled out of the classroom wondering what he had done to earn Mad-eye's wrath.

Harry slowly packed his bag as carefully watched the imposter out of the corner of his eye before throwing it over his shoulder and leaning on the desk as he waited for him to begin.

"Do you know how to spell your own name, Potter?"

Harry did his best to adopt an expression of obliviousness before responding.

"Pardon, sir?" he asked with a touch of confusion.

"Your name, Potter, do you know how to spell it?" ground out the imposter.

"I... believe so, sir," he responded carefully.

"Then why do you keep misspelling it on every essay?"

"I'm sure I'm spelling it correctly, sir."

"Oh really?" replied the imposter before hobbling over to his desk with a rhythmic clunk of his stolen wooden leg.

Harry could hear the growing touch of irritation in his voice.

"See, Potter? Here, here -" said the professor as he threw essay after essay onto the table, "- here, here, here again. Do you see what I'm talking about?"

The irritation was so evident at this point even Goyle would have noticed.

"Sorry, Professor, I wasn't aware," said Harry with an oblivious smile.

He was sure he could hear tooth enamel chipping now as the imposter ground his teeth in frustration.

"Sorry isn't good enough, Potter," replied the imposter. "Detention tonight, my office, eight o'clock - you're going to write your name out a thousand times to help you remember it."

"Very well, sir," he replied never dropping the smile.

####

He was beginning to wonder if Potter was an imbecile as he watched the boy dutifully write out his full name over and over again. Running about the castle for the last month trying to find the boy's signature had been tiring and he wished he had simply gotten the boy to write his name in detention in the first place to save himself the effort.

The boy never signing his name properly really did suggest to him that the boy wasn't all there and it seemed that a significant number of the professors also treated the boy as a simpleton - clearly the Dark Lord's killing curse muddled the boy's brain or quite possibly he's just the result you get when a pureblood sullies himself with a mudblood whore.

Regardless, the brat gave him a headache and he longed for the days when he could just be one of the Dark Lord's chose raping and murdering muggles and mudbloods - he would never again have to drink so much of this revolting Polyjuice potion. As soon as Potter left he was was going to hop off to the goblet to put the boy's name in and then get blind drunk.

"I'm done, Professor," broke him out of his absent minded thoughts.

"Very well, Potter, get out of here," he replied trying to not show his disdain and irritation for the dopey boy.

Deciding he could have one Firewhiskey as a headache cure and as a preventative pain relief for that bothersome leg stump he broke out the bottle from his secret stash and a tumbler. Once finished he pushed the old aching body to its feet and went towards the door, picking the topmost leaf of parchment off the top of the stack Potter had left before trumping out the door with a clunk every second step.

Again his thoughts returned to how much of a moron the boy who defeated his master was. He had hoped in a small part of his mind the boy would be a dangerous and worthy opponent but all it seemed to be was luck that the boy survived. As he saw the shimmering blue flames of the goblet as he reached the top of the stairs in the Entrance Hall he pushed the thoughts out of his mind before quickly scanning the surrounding area with his eye. Finding the surrounding area clear he felt confident approaching the goblet.

Pulling the slightly crumpled lines that Potter had written out of his pocket he flattened the parchment out before suddenly feeling great rage and doing his best to not pull his wand out and blow the blasted goblet to bits

Harry Evans Potter

Harry Evans Potter

Harry Evans Potter

How could the boy be so dumb as to not even know his own name? he thought in a rage.

He was contemplating what to do and considering such ideas as torturing the brat until he wrote out his name correctly before obliviating him when it came to him; the boy was a moron, it snot like he would know the difference. So with that in mind he forged the brat's signature before doing the necessary charms and dropping the slip of paper into the goblet. Tomorrow night the boy's name will come out of the goblet and he will never know it's not binding.

fin

I've never published crack before and this is probably awful.


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You can justify it by having Harry go:"If there is one thing Lockhart thaught me, it is never give your autograph away for free."

 

How much did Harry pay for the omniculars in GoF? Was it ever mentioned?