The problem is just that your power doesn't help you achieve your win condition.

If Lexicat intended for you to be a vanilla survivor while alive, it's possible. You have to get through the entire game with no powers to help you accomplish that goal.

Also, if there are item-giving powers in this game, it's possible you could pick up something that would help you survive. So... (shrug)

 

Semi-Official Vote Count 10

[6] Titus ~ Blab, MathBlade, Lyrium, Snowvon, fontisian, Zenzao
[5] Lyrium ~ Atum, Rubicon, Titus, Citrus, Luckylee
[2] Aekiel ~ TerRaine, Sloth
[2] Citrus ~ Aekiel, Doctor Whooves

[1] Not Voting ~ Kalas

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch!

Day 1 will end September 26th, 10 PM EST.

 

@fonti/Lyrium: Are Titus/Snow aligned in your mind?

No sidestepping this and 914. These are important questions.

 

You can help me achieve my win condition by not killing me!

If I get an item, I promise not to immediately destroy anyone with it. You can trust me. I'm Sincere.

 

The point of the question is what Rubicon, who, I believe, has played a bunch of games with Aekiel, gains by asking you, who hasn't, and who isn't even town. As in, I didn't see what useful information he would gain about either you or Aekiel.
(I didn't realize that his question was based of of your reads, though, so it does make sense)

So, I didn't mean to put down your reads. Can you explain the evolution of your fontisian read to me? Starting from your claim, please.

No it's a straight statement. People(Sloth and Titus, iirc) have thought/said that that was what I implied and obviously that isn't scummy. (that's why :facepalm)

Ok, when you said progression I thought you meant over the game.
I am not sure I follow. Why would scum!Titus not introduce the possiblitly of Lyrium being manipulated? I see at least an obvious scum!motivation in the town!Lyrium, town!fontisian, scum!titus world.

____________________________________________________________

Rubicon do 825#. Seriously. I don't understand your meta argument and I would like to see how you explain her posts from a town!Titus perspective.
Here, I'll even do it myself:

blue is just an impossible conclusion, as I've written Agree/Disagree?
red clashes heavily with her benign scumhunting Citrus read. Objection?

red: compare with red above. Contradiction. Your opinion on what this indicates is?
blue: Aekiel wasn't getting townreads, he was one of the 2 top wagons.
cyan: blatantly verifiably didn't happen. Use Ctrl-F.

cyan: nope still didn't happen. "Repeat until it's true" is scumTitus tactic. Opinion?

red: Citrus in fact can be aggressive as scum. Agree/Disagree?
Titus hosted when Citrus was aggressive as scum, so has no excuse not to know that. Agree/Disagree?

Agree/Disagree?

This is moving goalposts.
Whether or not it is called a "tunnel" is irrelevant to the aggressiveness of Citrus, that is the apparent not!scum!Citrus tell.
(In my opinion, if a tunnel leads to a lynch, it's still a tunnel, despite the fact is it is the majority in the end)
scum!Citrus was aggressive and lead a lynch.
Citrus behaved similarly here. Agree/Disagree?

Well, as fonti said, a few post before that she mentioned fonti in a Math/fonti/von team. (It was only a "paranoid suggestion" though, so whatever)
__________________________________________________
I'll continue when I'll have time again.

 

blab, have you played with town!Titus? I know you saw her as a serial killer and as mafia, but have you played with her as town?

She is a good scumhunter. That said, she doesn't think the way other people do, and she's stubborn as fuck.

The result of this is that people often accuse her of 'impossible' conclusions, illogical arguments, leaps of logic, contradictions and 'blatantly scummy' behavior.

Here is an example. I got her mislynched one day one because I was convinced she was obvious scum. She was VT. Her case against a player for being scum, which made zero sense to anyone, was nonetheless correct.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=5748602#p5748602

My scum team mislynched her day one in a game that just ended, too. Similar patterns in her play.

If you are trying to read Titus based on the type of behavior you and fontisian are quoting, you will fail every time.

Instead, look for the little things that she does differently as town. Consider, for example, the way she is showing paranoia about the fact I'm siding with her and agreeing with her reads rather than simply accepting me as her 'townbeard' and letting me break up the wagon on her. That's town Titus.

The decision to say Lyrium could be town being manipulated is similarly just not what I expect Titus to do as scum, so she's town. It doesn't matter whether there's a possible scum motivation for it, it matters whether she is more or less likely to do it as scum.

 

Survivors should scumhunt but hammer anyone who reaches l minus 1. Zero contradiction.

All the neutrals have helped Citrus get run up.

Citrys scum was totally passive in Witchunt and in Wifom he fakeclaimed acolyte. I don't see scym Citrus fake claiming something likely to get himlynched when we can claim anything

---------- Post automerged at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

Bold it for him. I always give multiple people chances to confirm before I am certain they are ignoring. So what is Citrus ignoring?

 

Words lots of words.

This Titus/Lyrium/Citrus decision is tough.

 

Citrus answered. I'm still suspicious as shit but for me this looks-

If Titus flips town, Fonti is scum. If Titus flips scum, Citrus is highly likely to be a scummate.

Honestly speaking, I still feel lynching Citrus is still our best bet, it has the least risk involved with the huge possible benefit for us. ie if he flips Scum, Titus is also likely to be scum considering her plan to verify him via items.

I'ma reread the last 10 or so pages and reconsider who I want to lynch.

On a final note, Fonti/Lyrium, I want you to clearly quote post and give reasons as to why Titus is a dirty lying scum and why I should vote her.

Rubicon- Is your defense on Titus purely based off meta/gut feels atm?

Titus-Give me a scum read that isn't trying to lynch you.

Blab- Your post wasn't colorful enough or something.

 

Tinyhunt 3 (the fakeclaim judge day 1 game) Titus was priest.

Anyway, I remember that despite Titus being "weird", I didn't really think she was scum. (tbh, mostly because EricF/Rubicon were so scummy and then she got deadified and left an awesome clue)

So if I pretend that I totally concluded that her claim not adding up in B&T meant she was SK+, I am 3 for 3.
(I have also read a game where she was town on mafiascum, can't remember the name, though)

I know that Titus,even as town, uses parallel-dimension-logic that is just not meant to be understood by simple mortals such as me.

That doesn't mean I can't judge motivation, which is how I try to read her.
I don't have as much meta as you to be able to say Titus "would/n't" do that as town/scum, so that's how I have to read her, too. (all I count on is that Titus is a) more manipulative and b) more ruthless (she has fewer inhibitions to just discredit everthing that she doesn't like) as scum).
I would ask for proof of your meta-argument but that's impossible to ask of you, given how hard it is to find evidence for a statement like "she wouldn't do that as scum"(like, I would need you to show the non-existence of that pattern in all her scum-games or something?). If you could anyway, though, that would be grand.

The reason why there is "impossible conclusions, internal inconsistencies" in my last post is that fontisian started with "lies".("lies"=>"falsehoods"=>"impossible conclusions, internal inconsistencies")

Anyway, I am able to see how all her posts together make sense from a scum!Titus perspective, but not from a town!Titus one.

You ignoring motivation and going 100% meta is kind of argh, but ok, let's go meta:


"(all I count on is that Titus is a) more manipulative and b) more ruthless (she has fewer inhibitions to just discredit everthing that she doesn't like) as scum)."

Manipulation:

Why does she post this? Basically everyone has townreads of varying strength on Ter. She is not convincing anybody.
Is this actually an insight? No. TerRaine rages because of the RL-thing, and last time I checked scum are able to go camping, too. All this proves (if the rage is unfakable, (which I believe, too) is that Ter really was unavailable/resents implication otherwise.
Is there a possible manipulation-objective behind this? Yes, if she posts something like this right after this:

This is a pattern that she has repeated several times (once with Zenzao right next to these posts). I don't remember this from town!Titus, but like I said, you probably have more meta. Do you have an example (or something) of town!Titus doing this kind of buddying?
(it doesn't need to be exactly this, but merely the pattern, like: the liking of post and then a few posts later "subtly" wanting that person to change a vote.)

Tl:dr: NO, please read.

 

My scumreads are Fonti Von Lyrium and Blab. I highlighted each and everyone before they voted me or GoSed me I believe. There is no other scumread.

---------- Post automerged at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

Blab, I post TerRaine as town bc she is. That is a pretty townie post. Yes scum go camping but scum would make Z look like scum rather than just yell at him.

Not everyone of my townreads is agreed upon. Otherwise we would be lynching Lyrium.

---------- Post automerged at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

My plan does not verify Citrus. It is a forced containment method that forces us to scumhunt. Citrus visiting me doesn't clear him. I just think he's a town aligned neutral.

 

Ugh.

FoS by blab on Titus: Post 401#

first mention of blab in relation to scum by Titus comes in direct OMGUS Post 402#

 

I place Titus is the lower five level of my reads: Post 640.

Titus begins to attack me: Post 641

Let's not forget that Titus was townreading before this, with the exception of one post calling me a paranoid scumread, and repeatedly call the fight between Citrus and me a town v. town fight.

This is stupid.

 

*nods* /10 characters

 

Luckylee, see Fonti's post about Titus lying and Blab's post about her contradictions and manipulations.

I also first voted Titus in post #45 and then later on blatantly discussed her meta and how I wasn't falling for it this time. She started turning on me at that point. Just do a search of all my posts. My main focus was Citrus but Titus kept defending him and buddying just about everyone else.

Kalas, what other people are calling tone I think of as mindset or behavior. Like aggressive isn't a tone to me it's a style or behavior. The use of "lets" as some sort of indicator is mind-boggling to me. Really mind-boggling.

The second question was about Titus\Snowvon alignment. I would have to look at that more clearly although I'm not sure. I already made it clear that I read Von as townie and he turned out to be third party as he claims. I do wonder why Snowvon hasn't said anything about me or the wagons.

It's kind of like MathBlade and to a certain extent Atum with the wishy washyness. Who are your scumspects? Why? Do you have a case?

Also, Rubicon is either misguided or I actually don't know what is going on with his reads. In WH4, Titus was scum and had crappy reads but she still got several townies killed because she just overpowered people\logic. She wasn't logical, she was just overpowering.

Eventually, though I stopped following her lead but she had several people still convinced. In Dresden, she was town and her town arguments not only made sense (she also pinned Citrus as scum and kept on going until he was dead) but won the town the game. She was also town in Avatar and I sheeped her read of Fonti (while everyone said she was illogical) but her logic made sense to me. It's not making sense in this game. It just isn't.

I mean I feel like she's trying to rile me up and usually I would have a QT (it's not the same if you don't get it from the mod, it just isn't - like when Zeit gave me my first QT and said it was my journal thing..it was just cooler from the mod, anyway) to expel some emotion in. Heck, Titus's scumchat in WH4 has her deciding to keep me alive because my meta is to sheep stronger players. That was in the scum chat.

There's also the factor of I know I'm town, she's reading me as scum (although she flip-flopped and introduced a doubt that I might be manipulated but by whom and why? I mean I am reacting to her weird play). Let's say I am lynched toDay, when I flip town...how does that change your reading of Titus?

That question is for everyone.

---------- Post automerged at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Oh, there was another question from someone...just ask again and I will answer.

---------- Post automerged at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Oh and does this game have twilight like where the dead are lynched but can still talk?

 

If you are who you say you are and a neutral, I will be having that talk.

 

Fonti anewer the damn question.

 

I didn't know there were standards in bastard games. Shrug.

 

@Lyrium: Don't sidetrack. Let's is just something that I wanted a second opinion of. I'm not basing a read on one word. Someone can make the exact same points and it can be aggressive or buddying depending on word choice. That's why language yells are important

 

Kalas, I answered your question. It's not a sidetrack when MathBlade suddenly picks up on it as a tell as well.

Rubicon, do you really think this is my scum play? I have half a mind that this some gambit you are doing to catch scum on the obv!town wagon but I really can't believe that you would think this is my scum play.