1. No
2. If I had to place a vote on a player right this instant I would choose Quanksor. He has already explained himself from my previous comment, but the way he worded things initially just seems... off I suppose is the best word.

@Sloth

I do not. I have been considering getting advise/spit-balling ideas off people I know, but I decided not to. I'm going to try to catch people out using as much of my merit as I can. Steeper learning curve, but makes for a much more interesting game for me.

Also sorry about the improper syntax,
UNVOTE:Citrus

Much past my bedtime. Night.

 

That was an interesting backpedal and all but I still wanna hear about my spot in your reads; I'm a little sensitive to people reading me D1. Also Citrus. And y'know, why.

1. Nope. If I said yes though, would you lynch me or let me be?
2. Can I take a Zenzao and give this a day or two? If no, probably Rubicon since I doubt he'll get lynched today and I don't really want my vote somewhere threatening just yet.


Question for the masses: What's your goal/approach to D1? For example, Citrus has his PoE town thing. Just curious about the mindsets currently represented.

---------- Post automerged at 02:34 ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 ----------

Changed my mind:

Vote: his fluffiness

My first readthrough, a lot of his posts seemed...combative which is sometimes fine, but I didn't like. Then ZZ's super town-read on him was really unexpected so I started paying attention and looking back eventually. Then he fails to question or respond to Rubicon's Riley/Fluff/Quank thing which was weird because why show no interest at all?

He's got a habit of giving 'reads' but not reasons unless pressed specifically for them. Not sure if that's a tell, but it happens enough to be note-worthy, especially since he's gone through the process several times now.

Lyrium's lean-town reasoning was also weird since it especially since it seems more reasonable for a new player and I get the impression the Fluffman is not so new.

Then there's the backpedal when Schro replaced out, followed by voting Sloth over Quanksor who he'd mentioned previously as a scumspect, again without reasoning. Pulls Citrus, Rubicon, Atum out of nowhere to follow. That kind of inconsistency usually gets picked up by a lot of people so not seeing a bigger reaction to it yet is worrying. And Quanksor is now totally off his suspect list without mention.

Basically, trying to follow the trajectory of this guy's posts is impossible which screams that he's more intent on giving the appearance of scum-hunting than following any sort of reasoning to really be successful in the endeavor. See for example his latest vote for Nemrut: easy to justify, and if he's not posting he's probably not going to defend himself. Fishy made the same point about pressuring a non-entity to him earlier, no appreciable response again.

Oh and @Snowvon: No, not a scoundrel, but I could be if you want I guess. It sorta sounds interesting. What do scoundrels even do anymore?
Who are you interested in talking to Von?

---------- Post automerged at 02:41 ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 ----------

@Sloth: What exactly do you consider a relevant thing to be? Relevant to what?

 

I'm having internet connectivity issues that hopefully will resolve in the next day and a half. I haven't read past post ~160ish, but regardless of resolution I will try to respond to what's happened since on the morrow. I apologize for the inconvenience.

In the meantime,
Unvote:Fishy Justice (or whomever I was on)

 

Uh in a game where analysis will be more important than usual, I think stating that she's both good at analysis and I'm bad kind of paints the picture. Skimming is terrible man.

Someone asked me to give an opinion on Lyr/Ter interaction...Why wouldn't I be focusing on Lyr? And no, I said Lyr is leaning Town, I later stated that Ter is still middle ground for me. Again, skimming is bad.

O.O Dude, again skimming is bad and I have made reads based on performance and so far, it's living up to expectations really. Kentos is the only one who really addressed the lack of posting and he at least gave a token excuse. Where's yours?

They all be playin' you son.

 

Alright. I just dug through all 223 posts.

[FONT=&quot]Sloth[/FONT] - Reenforces Ves ideas on Bad Batman hindering us hard, counters with general Scum threat and dismisses Riddler.

#54 readlist lacks any backup, raises massclaiming again and tries to shy it past concern by claiming "last hour lets do it guys, surely Riddler can't hit us all in that time!"

Given how much activity we all saw in CYS during the last hour of most Days, I find that rather hard to swallow from a player at his skill level. Further, HF, Citrus, and TerRaine fault the logic. That in turn has me doubting his latest latest readlist as well - can anyone else affirm their opinions on 212?

[FONT=&quot]Quanksor[/FONT] - Aside from the massclaiming debacle in the first few pages, seems to be generally acting Scummy, like wanting to start a game off from N1 and get actions off the ground immediately and thereby hasten NK/'s. Also no follow up to TerRaine/Snowvon's request for more in 106 and 109.

Riley|Rubicon
[FONT=&quot]Riley[/FONT] - Extremely defensive in the beginning, first over not answering Lyr's questions seriously, then over why he did so, and later arguing that he's not going to prod and Scumhunt for fear of leaving info to be used against him. Eventually starts making ground, but I second TerRaine's points in 165.

Rubicon - CYS meta tells me not to trust you. I'm pretty certain you said honesty is the worst policy and you blatantly lied about your thoughts on me in that game up until you were Day Killed by Fonti. So pretty much anything you say is being measured against everyone else until we're through a few Days and more of your play can be determined.

[FONT=&quot]Nemrut[/FONT]|[FONT=&quot]Fishy Justice[/FONT] - Kinda agree with Sloth in that we need to see a lot more from you guys. Nemrut at least answered Lyr in 168.

[FONT=&quot]Qgqqqqq[/FONT] - Mixes up two players, votes Citrus and in the same post votes Fishy Justice. On the other hand he pointed out the flaws with Sloth's last hour massclaim. Slight Scum leaning null.

[FONT=&quot]Snowvon[/FONT] - Fluff with a side order of extra fluff. I'm sorry man but that is bugging me because it is such a null-read clause. Asked for followup from Quanksor on me in 109, reacted very poorly to Rubicon's arrival 129, and accuses Quanksor of Scum. Given that reaction in 109, is anyone else thinking analysis fear?

[FONT=&quot]Kento Kraitos[/FONT] - Ran down the role differences between the original game and the final game roles, a few newb errs after that. Need more to judge.

[FONT=&quot]His fluffiness[/FONT] - Generally alright posting, like questioning Riley's feh attitude toward Lyr's questions, pointing out the problem with Sloth's last hour calamity, asking Q for read on Quanksor, but then he backpedals on Quanksor over sudden meta remembrance.

[FONT=&quot]Citrus[/FONT] - Some errs, like the Bane|Penguin decision, that took multiple posts to iron out. Not really seeing any reasoning behind his Townread/Scumread posts, either. Need some more from you, man.

[FONT=&quot]Aekiel[/FONT] - Initially glossed over the role list, later points out Riley's avoidance and prods him to Scumhunt over multiple posts. Runs down answers to Lyr in 71. Meta on him from CYS isn't as strong as I'd like but until I get confirmation from other players on Sloth's 212 readwall I'll wait to comment on his reaction to Ter v Lyr.

Lyr - Starts off well with questions, responds and asks more questions, points out Citrus' errs over Bane|Penguin decision, but assumes that a Bane Stalkee is being 100% honest and not lying and that they should be granted full trust without doubt, which I find a little hard to swallow. She threatens Citrus, prods him further, and then we're into the Ter v Lyr spat where it all gets really, really messy. Also questioned Snowvon voting Riley 38.

I do agree with Riley 172 that her frustration felt real, and after my own snapping point last game, I can see how that builds up easily.

[FONT=&quot]Atum[/FONT] - 28 has me feeling Townie, 87 continues that trend.

[FONT=&quot]TerRaine[/FONT] - Objects to Schrodinger's "least useful Town role" question, chips in on Sloth 54, raises doubts over Bane Stalkee's blindtrust that Lyr enthuses, and tables massclaiming under a Scum clause. Later votes Riley.
[FONT=&quot]Schrodinger[/FONT]

UNVOTE

VOTE: Sloth.

---------- Post automerged at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

And I meant 129 on Snowvon, not 109.

 

Can someone seriously explain this "defensiveness" everyone keeps posting about me. I'm really confused.

 

What game was Lyr scum in? Only played 2 with her. One she was seer and Sloth killed her off pretty damn quick and the other she was seer.

Can you elaborate on the inconsistency?

Part of what makes this work in interviews is you are under a ticking clock to answer and because its being done face to face.

In an interview you gets asked “Puppies are cute do you strongly agree disagree or have no opinion” you answer…5 minutes and several questions later you get asked “Do you think puppies are cute?” and you answer. You have seconds. Here you have minutes. It’s all the difference in the world.

I think you lose A LOT (if not all for a careful player) of this when you are not put on the spot like you are in a face to face interaction. You have time to go back between questions and see exactly what you said. You have a script of your response.
All a scum will need to do is recognize this gameplay (which isn’t subtle) and going forward know to keep track of their posts so they can go back and word vomit at you the first thing they said.

....not sure if Derp moment or....I don't know.

Did Schrodinger say that's why he's replacing out? Don't get me wrong it's good to wait to have a read on his replacement to vote but I don't see him giving a reason and I don't think assuming anything in this game is something ya should be doing.

Why?

This was a serious question I need and answer to Fluffy

So….you thought him town without having read him? Just seems weird that under a wee bit of pressure you cave pretty much to what you think another player wants to hear.

It gives you an idea of what’s shifted in this game to see where town and scum stand. There’s not such thing as too much information for town to have

It’s a read wall. I am summarizing my thoughts on each player and why they have the colors they do in my pretty lil rainbow. It’s easier for my fellow heroy towns people to go to and see where I stand than have to scuttle all over the game to find my posts.

Cause I asked. You’re not paying attention. *pokes*

Oi vey I wish I could speak another language so i could just start rambling and venting in it. -_-

I am not teaching you. I am not lecturing you. I am not calling what you say irrelevant. I am saying I saw ONE play from you in this game that reminded me of ONE play from you in another where you were town. It’s not doubt casting. It’s not insulting. It’s not discounting how you played.

Do you give EVERYONE who uses past playing experience with another player this hard a time?

1)No
2)See end of this post.

Eh only at the start I feel like people started declaring you town thereafter.

I just kinda try to be flexible. I don’t go in with a set plan cause d1 is a crap shoot. It could be a lot of fluff and randomness which I’m not….great at until things get rolling. I get awkward XD

In the loosest terms i go in planning to ask questions. Pick out and Pressure those who ping me as suspicious and ask questions til I get a feel of my surroundings.


CITRUS AND RUBICON!

UNVOTE Riley


VOTE his fluffiness

 

I dunno, probably something dastardly.

People who I'd like to sort sooner rather than later. You, Rubicon, the Q, Sloth, Sloth, and a little bit of Aekiel.

1. No.
2. Probably his fluffiness for his BS read on me.

Actually, fluffy, I'd like you to explain why that had to be a thing (since you jumped to defending yourself instead of explaining) before I decide the whether or not I want to begin the slow and agonizing process of ripping your stuffing out, puff by puff.

The last Dresden game, I think. She did a lot of lurking and avoiding questions for as long as possible.

Zenzao, you say I reacted poorly to Rubicon's entrance. I say I reacted exactly the way I wanted to. And I'm sorry my fluff bugs you. I can be serious to you and only you, if you want, but you'd probably just find that equally as annoying. And since CYS is over, I can tell you without a hint of falsehoods that I was probably the only Neutral who was honestly townsiding (I suppose it helped I was the only one who could win with town anyways), so you can consider that my townplay for comparison to here.

Aekiel, why is Riley completely wrong about me? Do you see me for the innocent soul I truly am?

Atum, you never said what you thought of me (unless you did and it got lost in the walls). Just mentioning that Lyrium can read me better doesn't count.

---------- Post automerged at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

oh goddammit I listed Sloth twice on accident now he's going to think it Means Something

 

Yes.

I'd explain more but I don't make a habit of explaining why I have town reads. Gives too much info to scum.

 

Hypocrite much?

 

Maybe a little.

 

Good to know.

 

But more accurately, I'm just not willing to discuss this town read.

 

I am going to assume you meant one sentence total, because it's more fun that way.

I would vote for Zenzao, because I am not scum (despite his constant insistence to the contrary)

I was intending to remove my vote in this post, but

Now it feels like he's grasping at straws, and I do not like that.
I feel like he either skimmed that post, or is intentionally twisting it.
He does bring up a good point, though.
I forgot to answer these:

I was not leaning heavily one way or the other on him actually being scum, I just wanted to see how he responded to being called out.
"Just to be safe" is a habit of speech, and has no real relevance on the rest of the post.

My ideal D1 would be, lynch Clayface, and then watch the mafia kill the Riddler.
More realistically, I want to poke a bunch of people with a stick and see who jumps, starting with Zenzao.

 

I haven't been able to find a definition of doubtcasting, but what I intuit it as (casting doubt on other people)...seems to be what mafia is about? I'm sure I've failed in comprehension here, as others have used that term, but it seems to me that casting doubt on other people or considering them as scum and trying to analyse their actions beneath that consideration is the heart of what mafia *is*.

I get what you mean about rolefishing, but that was in fact a plan which doesn't seem to have thrashed out.

This is pretty much the opposite of my opinion. Certainly one doesn't want to focus on a non-entity and avoid the rest of the players - that is a bad plan. But putting a lurkers name in bold is a good way of inciting a reaction and forcing them to come out and respond. (And...it works, too.)
It wouldn't be something I'd employ often at a later stage, but it seems a very appropriate vote on day 1 - and I haven't been avoiding confronting others, either.
[Also, I'm not used to a game meta with replacements.]

This is what you stated:

In 110. The asking about disliking your playstyle that I was referencing was exactly this - I was saying I wasn't sure exactly why you felt the need to comment on that (I didn't think TerRaine was attacking your playstyle, though I see how you could interpret it as such), but once it was brought up, it tied into something I needed to comment on, so I used it as an oppurtunity to expand on my thoughts regarding you.
I disagree that hating on your playstyle is hating on you. I've interacted with people before who managed to royally piss me off in-thread - even some who regularly grated on me as you do - but out of werewolf we were able to connect and interact well, and I believe the same of you. (I remember enjoying your material in the OT thread.)
It's that kind of emotional blackmail/passive aggression that I find endlessly suspicious about you, incidentally.

Fuck off.
This is the other part that pisses me off, you're penchant for insulting people without cause, and trying to mix that up with an actual argument.
I do agree with fluffy on schrodinger - that his fluffposting and lack of contribution was filling the thread giving an impression of activity without actually adding anything. It wasn't strong enough of an opinion to justify a vote, IMO, but I supported what he brought up as something I had also noted.

Leaving aside this for a second, you listed me in your "scum-side" but here you gave no arguments for that, only that you believed me not to be reading carefully but still commenting.
What do you find suspicious about me, Lyrium?

BTW, some people call me Queeg.

Riley, of those with decent activity, who do you find suspicious? And why, of course?

Or do you believe that scum will be predominantly inactive/found amongst the lurkers?


...lol at two posts down! Could you elaborate on "Passable but bland responses and sporadic shots at others" please? As in, you feel I am barely skating by and the questions are not confrontive enough? Or something else?

I get what you're saying here, though I fundamentally disagree. Getting people to defend their answers, and justify what they say is, to me, far more valuable to me then seeing the small variation in peoples responses. And at least for me, when someone asks me a question I will often look at my thoughts on the matter earlier - doubly so if I am scum and need to defend my position.
Your strategy seems like it would lead more to a cluttered thread with very little progress. Besides, question and answer can take as much as 12 hours, even for active players, if timezone issues occur.

I agree with whoever that it would really help if you were to give your own reads and start inquires as you are behaving very passively.

What do you find suspicious about his change in grammar? To me it just reads as one of his typical flavor moments.

I consider filler to be when someone is saying game-related comments just to fill up space and not contributing anything, where fluff is like flavor/fun comments not related to the game.

Its dealt with later in that post, IIRC. Basically the conclusion was that her playstyle is still one that I find inherently scummy, but that given I drew the same conclusion the previous game and I'm not sensing any difference, I likely don't have much skill in reading her.
Thus, I intend to keep a level eye out for her, but I'll leave my gut to one side until I have specific tells.

Incidentally, has Lyrium ever played as scum? Would someone give me a rundown on their impression of her differences there?

Hum, thanks for your note on Nemrut, I can see where you're going there. Not enough to form a conclusion without more, obviously but suspicious nontheless. Care to comment more, Nemrut?
Nemrut


Whilst I don't recall the conflict between TerRaine and Lyrium that well, I didn't feel that that was what Aekiel was siezing on there - I thought it was more centred around TerRaine's reactions then the substance itself. Which I thought was reasonable.

Ignoring the comment I've already responded to, Lyrium do you consider this a backtrack of your suspicion of me, or was it a mistake your putting me in scum earlier? If a backtrack, then what has changed?

I...don't really have a plan. Well, I mean I do the same things that I do on every other day - read, push for tells, pressure people into giving opinions/taking stances/contributing. But I don't have something I do specifically, really/

What is Citrus' PoE thing? And what would your response to that be?

To be clear, the Citrus vote wasn't a serious one, merely a note of disapproval for what I consider vaguely dodgy play, and the fishy one was simply a return back to my previous. I'm not sure if I even did that last bit...
Is that really something that would give you a scum read though, mixing up players and double voting? And, perhaps more importantly, is that really all that stood out for you on me?

My impression arose from your repeated statements along vague lines that you wouldn't contribute/were holding back on posting things, combined with the fact that you kept responding to questions but weren't offering up your own (for a while, at least). It's gotten better, but was a definite impression.



Sorry for the wall of text. I'm going to get a reputation for this, aren't I, and it really isn't my style.

---------- Post automerged at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

Sorry,
Vote: Nemrut

 

Oh lord, the conversation that doesn't end. TerRaine, I use scum tells and town tells and references to past games all the time. That js different from what you did which felt hostile or manipulative. My feeling was that by attacking something I did as town to discover scum (whether by luck or instinct) you seemed to be setting me up for some, "don't believe what Lyrium says" moment which if I were a seer or cop role would be detrimental.

Maybe I also felt a little weird as even though town lost I felt good about last game because I thought I became better as a player and it seemed like you were attacking that. I enjoy drama, its part of my playstyle but I personally don't think it detracts from my game. I don't know, I'm not interested in this conversation anymore. If there was something you wanted me to understand the CYS thread or an IRC convo or even a PM would have been better than in a new game since it doesn't feel right.

I also find it weird Queeg that you are suspicious of my play from a filler game where I was town and played the same way. Does that tell you something? See Snowvon's list in this thread for my scum game or go the Little Italy games threads (me ony scum game was hosted by Riley and is Dresden mafia) and look up my scum game. It's what I would do for any player I only had town games for. I think most information on my scum play would be from the IRC games.

As town though I like to antagonize a bit, maybe a fair bit. Scum can lie and manipulate, town can only push and prod and poke. That requires antagonism and a little bit good cop\bad cop. I enjoy both but bad cop requires some rough play. *If I were breaking the rules or etiquette then let me know that in a non-hostile way, I guess I'm more receptive to criticism that comes without the feeling of manipulation or scheming between players.

Atum, I don't know what I'd do..you tell me...do you feel guilty? Oh and see the above for my approcah to day one with the only thing I add is I like to start of getting to know people a bit as my reads are based on I guess "texture" and its harder to read emotionless people.

Anything I missed?

Still waiting on responses to the questions for all heroes and villains and sidekicks which are repeated here:

Answer in a sentence (a full and complete sentence)
1. Are you scum?
2. If you had to vote a person right this instant, who would it be and why?

 

Like I said, I find your play reads scummy for indiscernible (as well as several discernible) reasons. I'm taking that I have misread similar play by you in the past into consideration, and am not voting you accordingly.

You missed these two bits:

I am not scum, and I am currently voting Nemrut for several reasons: firstly as a pressure vote to inspire some activity and secondly because I agree with Sloth that she/he hit some suspicious notes in an earlier post.

If it were a kill, then I would probably go for Rubicon. I forgot to mention this earlier, but despite a few people pressuring him, I don't feel like he's given us his reads in general. I'll do a quick reread, but that was my impression earlier, that he'd made a few decent posts, asked some stuff but never gave general or decent impressions.

---------- Post automerged at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

Well, not as bad as I was thinking at first, but I definitely get the impression that we haven't heard anything about Rubicon's impressions of the game before he joined.

---------- Post automerged at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

Which is something he was asked for a lot, and even promised to give a couple of times. Probably just an accident/mistake, so maybe not worth a kill, but it was something that I suddenly recalled whilst writing that up.

 

I do have a gameplay question....Not sure someone more experienced has the answer. Why IS the first Day cycle so long in games usually? The last 2 I've played have 2 week D1s with the ones after being shorter. I'm curious.

 

Well, a lot of times games stagnate when you get down to a few players, the most active people die and you get a lot of lurking. So some mods try to shorten the deadline to address that. Not sure if that's Kalas' reason, but it's one I've heard before.

As for my reads, I'm keeping them close to my chest for now. I think my votes should be enough to communicate my position on the game.