Last night's was probably my favourite episode yet. We got Robert Knepper reprising one of the best one-off villains from Arrow, Wells's shadiness at peak level magnificence, Eddie peering up and down over that desk like a glorious Aryan whack-a-mole, a ton of "okay I am so for them banging by season three" kinda moments with Barry and Caitlin (Cisco totally cockblocked that one near-hug moment. I can only hope for the sake of hilarity he does something like that every episode from now on), and hell, just plain fun all 'round in that opening Barry montage. Yeah the show's got the freak-of-the-week formula and the CW-y kinda stuff as you'd expect and that might still be making people frownyface but I dunno I still finish each episode grinning like an asshole. So you go show. You. Go.

But the real fun'll be the next two episodes. Arrow crossover's next week. I am so fucking pumped for it. The trailer looked amazingly fun and then we also get a second part to the crossover with the next Arrow ep! Double feature of awesomeness. And then after that's the midseason finale and I'll bet the farm we'll get some heavy arc-y stuff with Zoom/RF/whoever. Gonna be gooooood.

 

Fantastic episode.

Diggle was amazing.

The fight was perfect. Right amount of balance from both sides.

I liked how Oliver was able to tell somethings off with Wells.

The cameo by Oliver's old fling was cool.

 

I think you mean Oliver's 'baby mama'.

I do like the contrast they're amplifying between the two heros. Arrow is pretty dark when you sum up three seasons in a few sentences.

 

I spend every episode grinning like a little school girl. I love this show and Arrow (not helped by the fact that I have a crush on Grant Gustin). Diggle's wide-eye disbelief upon meeting the Flash was hilarious.

Oliver's "Guys like us don't get the girl" speech had me doing manga weepy eyes. Wells remains shady as fuck, and there was an easter egg that everyone seems to have to missed - when Wells lists the names of some of the people who died because of the explosion, I caught the name "Ralph Dibny", who comic book fans will know as Elongated Man, most well-known in Identity Crisis.

 

I can see myself getting frustrated with this show if there's no character growth.

I appreciated the reality check by Oliver, but if the next episode goes back to Barry running into every situation like an idiot it'll probably kill the show for me.

Still shipping Barry/ Felicity btw!

 

They have to, though. Until they introduce truly threatening characters (like, say, Zoom) the only conflict stems from Barry's fuck-ups.

 

Extended trailer for next week has dropped, and it looks amazing. The title of the episode is "The Man in the Yellow Suit"--yeah, that man in the yellow suit*. I'm actually way more excited for this one than I was for the Arrow crossover, and that's saying something. They really saved the best for last.

Well I think you're ignoring the obvious pairing, which is Barry/Caitlin. But as long as it's not Barry/Iris I think we can all live with it.

 

I know. I've seen it. That was what the Zoom comment was for.

 

They don't 'have to'. That's just lazy writing.

No skin off my back, I already feel out of the loop after dropping Arrow way back when.

 

Racist.

You crazy?

 

Hmm..I find it interesting how the relationships people are hating most in these shows are the comic-oriented ones.

Barry/Iris is not especially well liked.

Oliver/Laurel is detested by most.

Jim Gordon/Barbara....fuck that ho.

Just an interesting though.

 

Maybe since it's a reboot anyway, people want something new?
Or the weirdo olicity fans.*shudder*

 

In the case of Laurel... the actress does not fit the role well, and the character might as well be an OC. I don't see much to dislike about Iris's actress so far, besides the weird brother-sister attitude she takes to Barry.

Haven't watched Gotham to input there.

 

I like Iris's actress and character. But the romance subplot feels really creepy considering they grew up as brother and sister. Nothing illegal about it..just feels kinda gross.

Plus...Barry and Caitlin have better chemistry I feel.

 

Hoo boy I've been ready for this conversation!

First off: any discussion on romance is inevitably going to have someone follow up with "goddddd no one gives a shit about romance blah blah" kinda thing, so let me start by saying not to bother, Cynical Charlies or Bitter Bradleys. This shit is pretty integral and valid. 'Cause first and foremost superhero stories are like Greek mythology when it comes to superpowered assholes and their fucked up interpersonal relationship drama affecting everything, and secondly, Arrow and Flash are CW shows. Romance is CWeisenberg's blue meth. We know meth is bad for us, but some get addicted because hey it's pretty pure if you're a fan of meth already so why not! And Fox is giving us Chilli P, probably.

But anyway.

I'm going with that the reason the big pairings flail is the shows touting the "they're supposed to be together and so they keep telling us they're supposed to be together" effect. Tell. Not show. A lot of shows, movies, everything have official love interests and we get that they're probably going to get together eventually 'cause of basic conventions, but ones based on comic books also have the weight of adaptation behind them. Decades of history. Clark Kent ends up with Lois Lane. Green Arrow gets with Black Canary (and divorces her, but hey who's counting). Higher-ups might not want their adaptations to stretch their legs and writers write it as so inevitable they take some fun out of it.

Barry/Iris is kind of a different ballgame to Oliver/Laurel though, let's be clear. Laurel went through a lot of shit, and if you just look at that list of trauma and drama there's a lot to sympathise with, a lot of reasons she has to be... abrasive. And rash. And other things people sum up as "bitchy". And as such, kind of distant to the guy who started a lot by going off to bang her sister and then get her killed. But since we're told from history that these two are supposed to be the endgame, we kind of sit there going, "Jesus fucking zombie Christ, these two kids are going to be going through this cycle for years. Do we want on this train? Not really, right? I mean, that IT girl is cute and uncomplicated and Oliver smiles more with her. Oh hey. Why not them get all couple-y?"

Laurel's got her own superhero-y destiny ahead of her and it seems wisely that the showrunners capitalised on Olicity's chemistry and, for lack of a better word, ease to quietly kill Oliver/Laurel. I mean, we hope. CW gave them the opportunity to say fuck it to source material and go with what worked on the adaptation. And fucking good for them. I love the spunk. It's working for me. If it's all a big long con in order to still have Oliver/Laurel endgame five seasons from now I'll eat my desk chair, but still.

Now, the Barry/Iris thing. For me it's about that tell thing again. Within the first five minutes of Flash we meet this girl Iris, and learn she's important to Barry's life. They're best friends. They've grown up together. They got some adorkable chemistry goin' on. This is cool, this is easy to establish and follow along. And then we learn Barry's in love with her. Question is: why exactly? Because the comic history says so? I mean yeah duh but pretend the show's being watched by someone who doesn't give a shit about comics. Why is Barry in love with her? What made him decide "oh fuck we've grown up together but my feelings ain't just friendly anymore"? Instead the inevitability of the comic pairing was taken and then we were to roll with it. And I am, rolling with it, sure. But still, I can't help but wonder...

Like, imagine if we meet these two and they're best friends et cetera. Then he gets comatosed, she starts dating Eddie, he gets power, they get distant over Flash issues blah blah. Then he realises his feelings for her are going beyond thunderdome. The transition could've been played over the course of these first bunch of episodes. Could've eased the whole "eww they're kinda siblings?" factor a bit to show instead of tell. Maybe even Oliver in the crossover notices before Barry does right before his "yeah superheroes get no game sorry bud" speech. Maybe Felicity picked up on some and first plants the seed back in her episode. And the audience would've gotten a chance to pick up on "Oh hey is Barry jealous of Eddie? Ohhhhh does he like Iris?" subtly beforehand and feel like we know something before Barry does. And yeah. Something like that! Build build build!

But dramatically it's best to be dramatic. That's the CW part, my guess. So Barry loves Iris and she starts dating a handsome cop guy while Barry was in a coma so duh he missed his moment and he can pine and angst and monologue at her in super speed. And then when he realises Iris kinda has a thing for The Flash... Which is kind of another thing. Rubs me the wrong way a little. Because one scene a few episodes back had Iris late at night at Jitters waiting for the Flash to show up. Barry did as Barry. And Iris was visibly disappointed it was him. Lady you have a pretty great boyfriend and a great best friend and you're chasing the spandex mystery to the point of shutting them out? C'mon. She has good intentions and isn't motivated by her own issues like Laurel has been sometimes, so it's not all that bad. But stillllll.

Point is, Barry/Iris could've been handled a little differently to make it something worth striving for instead of a "yeah duh they're comic canon" thing. And that's what got me on the Barry/Caitlin train. The comics-y inevitability factor of that pairing here is zilch. These kids didn't know each other when the series started so we have nothing to work with. So it starts small. Barry, being a nice guy, asked a girl who doesn't smile why she doesn't. When Barry later saves the day, she smiles. It's cute. Something about Barry's boundless heroism and puppy-dog-ness makes Caitlin defrost. It's positive development brought on by another character's positive development. Even on a purely friendship level it's a "d'aww" moment!

Then the connection-ing comes. Caitlin's default setting is "Jesus Fucking Zombie Christ Barry can I avoid reattaching your limbs this one hour pls I need a nap" but it never comes across as "stop having fun Barry rawr" to me. It's like an "oh you. lemme just fix my hair real quick" thing. Like, instantly. Their dynamic settles and clicks, the baseline established. No tell. Just show. They make eye contact an awful lot even in scenes with everybody. Acting choice, probably, but editors are keeping it in! Directors are rolling with it! They just seem close through language instead of words. Chemistry it can be called, but that shit is pretty subjective to some so I'll call it "vibing". And then comes the Ronnie/Barry parallels. With that comes the emotional connection. Ronnie died the same night Barry got superhero powers. But there's no blame or resentment. There's some transference on her part and projection but it's just easy to see why, right? Chick's defrosted and doesn't want to back into the freezer. No one who buries and mourns a cat wants their new cat to die within a week.

And I mean c'mon. They keep throwing lines like "Haven't seen anyone make her that mad since Ronnie" in reference to Barry and "Speed and cold are opposites that attract" or whatever. They have little moments of reassurance (Caitlin's "you can walk on water" comment for one). They have charged conversations about their insecurities (Caitlin over going down to the chamber Ronnie died in and Barry talking about losing his powers and worrying) that end on a hug and a "hesitant step forward vaguely open mouths oh god what's happening" thing respectively, both moments interrupted by Cisco. And it's freakin' Caitlin telling Barry she believes in him that helps him get over his yips, scenes after he asks her to risk losing her new cat's life directly. Development! Then Barry gets whammied and finally drops their first drama bomb with the whole Ronnie transference thing. And it's dramatic and weighty as balls for me because it built up to that. The subtext for his comment was there all along and it was put out into words at the most dramatically opportune moment. Which is beautiful!

Point is, there's just some plain juicy set-up there that as a viewer I'm interested as dicks in. And that the comic inevitability factor's there actually makes it more fun for these two. Because Barry's in love with Iris hardcore and even if he stops that there's easy insecurity drama on Caitlin's part there if he turns her way instead. And since Ronnie's alive and a meta, so if he's the crazy kind Barry might have to fight the guy but Caitlin's conflicted 'cause her fiancee's alive but oh shit is he crazy who do I side with here? And then the issue of her becoming the villain-y Killer Snow… In a series with whacky alternate universe/timeline altering possibilities you could have that happen and then fix it or whatever with angst in between. Soooo many opportunities. Untapped potential everywhere.

With Iris the arc'll go "she learns Barry loves her then she experiences doubt with Eddie as he goes crazy looking to take down the Flash and then it'll culminate with her learning Barry's the Flash and then they'll angst after she breaks up with Eddie/he goes evil and then Joe'll probably die in there and hey maybe her and Barry'll get together after another temporary couple of love interests and it'll be cool". I'm in for that ride 'cause it's still fun, but I'm so going to have more fun with further Barry/Caitlin developments. It'll end up a particularly angsty friendship above anything else probably, but that's what fanfic's for! And I'm sooooo considering it.

TL;DFR: The show started with telling us to root for Barry/Iris too much instead of showing it build. I saw a shinier ship at another port. As I walked towards it, I vaguely heard people on the ship decide I'm probably a racist 'cause they had no other valid argument and tiny brains.

 

You're being unfair on the Barry/Iris. What do you mean 'Why is he in love with her?'

Yes, they grew up together, but that doesn't mean they see each other as siblings. Barry was already of a certain age by the time Jo took him in. Being best friends and growing up together means Barry had enough time to truly get to know Iris, and fall in love with her. There's nothing wrong with that, and it happens all the time with close friends.

Edit: That said, I don't root for Barry/Iris. I don't like Iris.

 

They grew up together in the same house from an age prior to ten (not sure on age). This on it's own is a little squicky but not terrible...it gets weird because of how strongly the father/son dynamic is between joe and Barry.

Furthermore, Iris almost certainly viewing Barry as a brother.

 

Eh, I disagree, primarily because their relationships seemed formed before Wells killed Barry's mum (surely!).

 

Wow, you must be pretty fun with the college professors. I'm actually hoping my 'Racist' comment was taken for the joke it was (especially since I thumbs-upped the post I commented on). Seriously, you gotta be wound up tighter than two-dollar watch if you in any way thought I was serious about it.

As Republic mentioned - there's ample reason for Barry to have fallen in love with Iris, given that you know, they've lived together for so long and he knows her so well. If I had a dollar for every guy who fell in love with their best friend. True, there's a point to be made that the writers took the lazy route and settled for a lot of tell instead of show, but considering the point at which the show starts it's difficult to see how they could squeeze it. As it is I think they handled it rather well.

Barry and Iris do have good chemistry together, but given how sparky Barry's few scenes with Felicity have been, I'd rather see the two of them together instead. Caitlin's character is way too wooden, and that's how any romance with Barry (or hints of it) come across.

 

Don't acknowledge people who look for reasons to be offended.